TechniBrake Master Cylinder

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: TechniBrake Master Cylinder
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 11:22 pm:

I found the information on the TechniBrake Master Cylinder. This was the only off the shelf part and was actually a Hydraulic Clutch Master Cylinder.

From: http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mfr,BECKxxslashxxARNLEY

Clutch Master Cylinder

1978 HONDA ACCORD 1.6L 1599cc L4 3BBL [EF1] : Clutch : Clutch Master Cylinder

Item Price Core Total
BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0725184

$42.99 $0.00 $42.99
RAYBESTOS Part # CMA39247 {Professional Grade}

$48.79 $0.00 $48.79
ACDELCO Part # 385035 {#88990017}
CYLINDER,CLU MAS [US vehicles]
**Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 12 business days**
$40.79 $0.00 $40.79

Clutch Master Cylinder Repair Kit

1978 HONDA ACCORD 1.6L 1599cc L4 3BBL [EF1] : Clutch : Clutch Master Cylinder Repair Kit

Item Price Core Total
BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0716431
Front, Major, Contains Piston

$15.80 $0.00 $15.80


C


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 08:44 pm:

Fan belt against Timer
I have just put a new Anderson Timer on our 13 touring and the fan belt rubs against the front right corner of the timer. Has anyone had this problem? A longer fan belt would make the problem worse, and a shorter belt would have the fan blades hit the crank pulley.
Wilf Bradbury


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 09:55 pm:

Sorry disregard my above message
I was trying to open a new string.
Wilf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 10:25 pm:

That's ok, I was trying to figure out where the TechniBrake post goes. ????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Niedzielski on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:14 pm:

Thanks for the post James. I am sure that Tim will make use of this information. Has anybody stepped up to the plate yet to try and attempt to make some parts for this setup yet? I know that Tim had advertised for a set to dub off of. The challenge of course is that likely anyone who possesses such a set has it mounted onto their car. I like the hidden and clean look of this setup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett - Australia on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:19 pm:

I'll second that Ed.

I don't know if I can get my Dad interested in making them, I might be a bit busy but someone should:-)

Where is Travis Towle when you have a good idea?

Cheers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:44 am:

Hey Ed, I did get a set. Brand new, never installed! I can't find anyone near me that has the ability or desire to recreate pieces that will fit in this setup -yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:23 am:

Would someone give the rest of us a clue why we are talking about a Honda hydraulic brake master cylinder, and what this "hidden set-up" is all about? I suspect it has something to do with front wheel brakes, but??????
T'ale care.
David Dewey


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:28 am:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth H. Todd on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:50 pm:

Wot kind of wheel cylinder is that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:54 pm:

A trick, high-dollar one. Good thing it can't be seen. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:39 pm:

Dang, someone beat me to it. But that sure don't look like front wheel brakes to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:43 pm:

What about a parking brake with that setup?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ivan Jorgensen on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:57 pm:

The handbrake/parking brake works just like normal model T. It operates the little cam and spreads the shoes on the opposite side from the wheel cylinder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:04 pm:

Howdy blokes,

Just a quick query. I have always thought these were the best auxillary brakes made for a T bar none. My limited understanding is that the original inventor/developer was sued by a customer which put paid to further manufacture. He has since passed away(?)

Tim you mentioned that you've found no one to reproduce these items... is proximity a big issue for you because I'd really like to see if I could do just that.

I don't know if you're comfortable with lending me some components or maybe just some more detailed photos?

Dad and I have been bench racing about hydraulic brakes for a long time. We have gone through the design and what's required... mainly the special wheel cylinder. Shoes and drums arent too hard to imagine. We have experimented with a New Zealand developed idea using drums from a Hillman Avenger. However I still beilive this technicore setup to be best.

Could you please furnish the forum with some detailed photos and measurements like wheel cyl diameter/dimentions. I'd really like to get Dad fired up on this. He isn't up for shed work just now as he is going in for a hip replacement this morning. I could use some of the afore mentioned material to keep him entertained while he is recovering though.

Thanks in advance.

Anthonyspeedster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Niedzielski on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:26 pm:

Kenneth, the wheel cylinder is custom made and one of the most compicated parts of this setup to reproduce. The technicore setup was advertised a lot in 1980's Vintage Ford and I think it sold for somewhere around $800 back then even. I always wanted one but could never afford one but lucked out last year and finally got a gently used set.... Now if a fellow went even further and developed/refined a front end drum setup with proper axle bracing, you could really be "off to the races" if you intended to have a modernized antique vehicle capable of mingling with modern day traffic in a safer way, though not era correct. (I suppose some sacrifices have to be made in certain cases depending on the circumstance).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:59 am:

I don't think the manufacturer was sued but his lawyer or insurance agent scared him enough to quit making them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:14 am:

I often wonder how the Rocky Mountain Brake Co. can continue to produce theirs that don't work in reverse or when wet. That looks (to me) like lawsuits just waiting to happen.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:47 am:

The best insurance is to be lawsuit-proof; in other words, have no assets worth suing for.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James H. Daw on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:48 am:

I think there should be a bounty on lawyers.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 11:56 am:

I rarely read the LA Times, but once I saw a letter to the editor, "Wouldn't it be great if we had 80% of the world's engineers, instead of 80% of the world's lawyers?" True. We probably had 80% of the world's engineers at one time.

If you want to live without lawyers, go to Mexico or somewhere with weak or no tort law. Great gaping holes are left in sidewalks, with no barriers or flags. The street lights may or may not work. Go for a walk at night and fall in, and it's tough titty.

Companies in many other countries are free to pollute, maim and poison with no fear of reprisal. That is now reaching into the US as more and more hazardous materials are imported. For example, how do you sue a subsidiary of Baxter Labs in the backwaters of Communist China for the tainted Heparin that is poisoning dialysis and heart surgery patients?

Sorry for the rant, I think.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 11:59 am:

Will the original shoes and thin drums stop the car as short as the tranny brake does?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James H. Daw on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:38 pm:

I have been to Mexico and I seriously doubt that these problems are the result of no lawyers. There is little money for the common people in many of these country's and if there were more lawyers there there would be even less as they usually charge from 1/3 to 1/2 of a settlement in fees. I think that if the looser in any case had to pay all the lawyer fees there wouldn't be so many law suits.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 02:16 pm:

Hmmm. Bounty on pocket gophers in my neck of the woods used to be 25 cents. Lawyers probably wouldn't bring that much so doubt it would be worth the bother to trap them...;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 09:59 am:

Tim, is there any marking on the brake shoes that might suggest that they were used on any production vehicle? They could have been off the same type vehicle as the master cylinder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 10:23 am:

There was a used set for sale at the San Diego swap on Friday. He was asking $400, half of what he said he paid for it new. He had them relined with Model A brake lining, which he said was much too hard, and would barely stop the car. He suggested putting on a softer lining.

The wheel cyls appeared to be made from a block of aluminum. That would be simple enough, really. It is probably 1/2 or 5/8" bore, to allow the block to be within the maximum 1".

The master cyl should be the same diameter, assuming about a 10:1 advantage on the pedal.

Nash Metro or Triumph 8" drums just might fit without too much trouble, giving more heat absorption before fading. I've never seen any drum as thin as the T drum on the vertical face, meaning you would have to widen the axle or hub somehow.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tman on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 10:43 am:

I have a set of these on my 1915 touring that I purchased last year. When I seen them on the car I was very happy now that I have been trying to drive the car I am very sad. The brake peddle is solid feeling but you have to just about stand on it with two feet to stop. I have tried bleeding and adjusting but with no change in the amount of pedal pressure needed. I think it is the master that doesn't have the power.

All my other cars have stock Henry brakes with Kevlar and stop well. I think if I can't get this one to stop I am going back to the stock Henry brake’s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 10:57 am:

A master cyl with smaller bore will give you more mechanical advantage, Tman. If you have enough pressure on the drums, they will be burning the paint off.

I scorched the spokes on the front until I put an insulator between.

Rear brakes have been known to burn wheels up. It happened to an '09 Buick Model 10 on the Greatrace, coming down a hill in West Virginia or somewhere.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 11:09 am:

Tman:

The only set of these I saw on a car was when Tony Verschoore purchased the setup when they came out. He is a master machinest and said they were well made but apparantely poorly designed in that when it was all said and done - they looked great but didn't stop the car very well at all. That was my reporting of HIS opinion. Tony is laid up due to serious stroke that has left him unable to do much these days. Really wish he was on the tours with us but he can't go yet. The brake setup is still installed on his 1912 Touring Car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By andy samuelson on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 02:44 pm:

The man that developed these was a member of our club. He stopped because of the liability. The way I understand it was he did not separate the brake business from his other businesses. He has since died and the family has sold all of his made stock and the whole machine shop.
A fellow club member has bought everything and is working to offer them for sale again. The process of getting castings done and getting setup for production is very time consuming.
He is hoping to have things worked out soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 04:00 pm:

Does anybody know the size of the bore in the master cylinder he provided? The Nash Metro, among others, uses master cyl of same bore as each wheel cyl.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By aaron on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 10:41 pm:

I know a guy in san Jose that bought a set of the brakes.
He said at first they didn't stop the car very well without a lot of pedal pressure.
Then One day he got a new free set of shoes in the mail. he said the guy gave evrybody a new set of shoes with better lining.
One day he backed it out of te garage and when he hit the pedal the car stopped so quickthat it almost ;ifted the fron wheels off the ground.
He loved those brakes.
The right lining makes a gig difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ivan Jorgensen on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 03:32 pm:

Our family purchased (3) sets of these brake setups when they were originally manufactured. They were installed on a 1919 Roadster, 1924 Touring, and a 1926 Speedster. All these cars had these brakes replaced with something else.

These brakes took a large amount of force to stop the car (even in a light weight speedster). In one instance, I actually buckled the master cylinder shaft before the wheels locked up.

On our roadster, the wheel cylinder froze up. The wheel cylinder appears to be a homemade part. The problem came from the wheel cylinder being made from machined aluminum and the backing plate/brake lines being made of steel.

One of the main problems with installing hydraulic brakes, is bleeding the break lines. If you want to continue to use the hand break and use the default holes on the backing plate, the brake shoes must be on the top and bottom. Therefore putting the wheel cylinder in the up/down orientation. This wheel always leave an air pocket in the upper shoe cup. (This is why hydraulic brakes have the wheel cylinder at the top of the backing plate)

From my experience I would not recommend using these brakes.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration