Fan Belt hits Timer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Fan Belt hits Timer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 09:09 pm:

I have just installed a new Anderson Timer on our 13 T and the fan belt ribs against the front corner of the Anderson Timer. The belt is true on the crank pulley and fan pulley. If I used a longer belt it would make the situation worse, and a shorter belt would cause the fan tips to hit the crank pulley. Has anyone else run into this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 09:32 pm:

Does your fan arm have the crook in it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john curry on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 09:47 pm:

yes, well kind of. on my 24, it had a water pump and the belt was shreded so i wraped a tape measure around the pullies. to long would hit the lower radiator hose and tube and to short would be into the timer when it was advanced. since, i have removed the water pump, and with the right size belt it clears both ends. mine takes a 26" belt now, but yours will be different. someone told me that i have a small fan, also, so there must be other size fans that can be used. keep at it and you will win. john


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 10:24 pm:

Jack
Yes the arm has a crook just below the fan axle.
The arm is brass/bronze I think! The later T's appear to have a straight arm and a little longer.
Wilf
Thanks John that gives me some ideas. No water pump on this old girl!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:35 am:

l had the same trouble with my 13 , corrected the arm , problem solved, also found that l needed to use a few copper spacer washers to get the arm true to run the belt.
Dont forget to put a split pin or wire into that arm to ensure that if it does come loose , it wont come off !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:43 am:

Dave
What did you do to "correct the arm"? It appears I have the correct arm installed! The pulleys line up perfectly.
Wilf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:50 am:

Wilf,

Sounds like the arm is a reproduction if it is made from bronze. The originals are forged steel. So it could be that the arm is not made correctly. Or maybe your belt is too tight, there should be lots of free play in the belt.


Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Wayne Rudzik on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:20 pm:

My belt rubs on my Anderson timer when advanced. I believe it is due to the larger crankshaft pulley I used.
Talked to Anderson timer and he said he sees a lot of old timers with grooves from the belt.
I drive a '26 roadster with the fan at the water outlet.
Any solution would be welcomed.

Joe R.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lawthers on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 02:16 pm:

My 26 Touring fan belt (30 inch) also rubs against my Anderson Timer. I have offset the fan belt as much as possible using the ecentric belt tensioner to give me enough clearance to get the spark advance to about eight notches above full advance.
Would like to come up with another solution to this problem if I can.
Will be looking forward to other threads on this subject.
Tom L
26 Touring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Wayne Rudzik on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 03:52 pm:

Tom,
Are you using an original crankshaft pulley or a new flanged one?

Joe R.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:19 pm:

Our 13 was restored when I bought it last year.
It has a lot of problems which I have uncovered. Who ever restored it in California did some things very well and a lot of other things ???? as I have learned. I have been wondering about the crank pulley. This car has a lot repo stuff on it and I wouldn't be surprised if this pulley was a new repo. Where the original 1913 pulleys slightly smaller in diameter than the later years?
Wilf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:43 pm:

The original pulley is the same diameter as 1909 - 1917 approximately.Some repros are not crowned properly so the belt won't stay on very well. Maybe you can see the crown on both the fan pulley and the crank pulley in this picture.


pulley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 08:58 pm:

Royce
Thanks for this.
The pulley on ours looks just like yours in this picture. Yours may be slightly smaller diameter.
I notice in Synders cataloge they show 2 different dia pulleys for the crankshaft 2 3/4" and 3 1/4". It is hard to measure mine accurately without removing the rad but it looks like it might be the larger one.. It is too bloody cold tonight to do that. Newmarket Ontario tonight is going down to -20c. My garage is not heated.
I don't have a problem with the belt sliding off the pulleys at this point.
I'm sure a smaller pulley on the crank would solve this problem. Once the temp gets to the freezing point I'll pull the rad and pass along what I find.
Cheers Wilf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lawthers on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 08:20 pm:

Joe,
I really don't know if the crankshaft pulley is original or not. I guess I will look into that because that would probably explain the problem. I am not really sure what size belt would have been installed on a 26 either.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Tom L
26 Touring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Guy D Nelli on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 08:47 pm:

ford changed from brass (bronze) to iron fan pulley / hub in june 1915. guy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 11:22 pm:

Well the temp finally got above freezing for a few hours The crank pulley is the small one about 2 3/4 dia. I've sent an email to Frank Fenton to see if he has any ideas as to why the fan belt rubs the timer. The old original timer had clearnce so it appears the anderson has a deeper body!
Wilf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 11:33 pm:

"Any solution would be welcomed." :Joe Rudzik

Here's a solution Joe, if you can stand that narrow belt. I run a New Day and can advance to the moon without the timer crashing into the belt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 07:08 am:

I had the same problem with my '26 Coupe (which has the later fan mounting). I fitted a new Anderson in place of a worn-out Tiger. I found that the TDC position (checked aganinst No1 piston) was different from the Tiger such that the boss in which the timer rod fits would rub against the belt when the timing was advanced to the normal running setting.
My solution was to fit a thin cutting disc in a hand grinder, hold the grinder in a vice (vise), and then carefully cut a second slot in the timer rotor to advance it. The new slot is about one slot's width from the original slot. The grinder was necessary because the steel Frank uses for his rotors is harder than any hacksaw blade!
I did wonder whether the fibre (fiber) camshaft gear I had was slightly mislocated, but I have recently fitted a standard Ford steel gear (I am planning long journeys this year and I have read all the warnings on this Forum) and nothing has changed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:00 am:

hey Seth, is that an speedster OEM belt?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:05 am:

You betcha! I guess I could have taken a Sharpie and blackened all that writing........

You've just got to love the freedom that a speedster allows.

Your racer should be polluting air by now, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wilf bradbury on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 02:42 pm:

Problem solved
The stock timer that is sold by the suppliers is for later models, probably not the brass years.
Many thanks to Frank Fenton who sent me an early model timer that he rebuilt (Anderson). The case is not as deep and just provides the clearance on the belt. I would suggest anyone with the 23" belt small crank pulley and original fan set up planning to use an Anderson timer check with Frank before you buy.
Thanks again Frank


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