Welding split rims together

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Welding split rims together
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark uchneat on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 07:32 pm:

Can you weld split rims together to make it a solid rim? (like a demountable)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 08:36 pm:

why?
steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 08:53 pm:

sorry Mark for being so short. the purpose of the split is to allow the rim to collapse so the tire can be fitted. but you must have something else in mind?
steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:01 pm:

It looks to me like it would be just as easy if the rim was welded to be able to slide a new tire on with a standard tire machine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:07 pm:

Its simple,Why dont you try to put on a tire on a closed rim?
I will be interested in the results
For i also have wondered about it
larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pete Eastwood on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:14 pm:

You can, but you will never be able to mount a tire on it!
First you have to understand their function.
Straight side tires have steel wire in their beads and will not stretch, therefore they require a split rim or a drop center rim to enable mounting. The Wire keeps the tire from comming off the rim when inflated.
A clincher tire has no steel wire in the bead and will stetch over the rim for mounting. The interlock of the clincher is what keeps the tire on the rim when inflated
Pete


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:19 pm:

Doesn't the modern standard tire machine require a center hole for securing the rim to the machine so the tire can be removed and installed? I can't imagine how you could make a modern tire machine work on a centerless rim. The split rims make it much easier to mount a tire on than the clinchers, especially if you have an expander. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:29 pm:

The type of tire changer i am thinking about is a rim clamp.The fellow lays the wheel on it,pushes a pedal,then 4 clamps push outward and secure the rim,with no center and then a part of the machine is lowered and the tire tool stuck in and the rim rotates.
Mobile home style rims and such work good on this.
Balanceing couldnt be done with any of the machines I have seen.not on this type rim.

But I see the point now about the sides of the tire,didnt think about that.Radial tires have that wire bead as well but the sides of the wheel aint that tall either.Pep boys ruined all 4 tires they put on my 61 tbird overstretching them by putting them on the front of the rim,on those 14's you remove and install the tire from the back.so now that you all have explained it,I can see why it wouldnt work to good.Thanks for helping me understand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark uchneat on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:32 pm:

Thanks guys, I have demountable rims and my friend has the split rims. We are both fairly new to this T stuff. We were talking and said "can't you just weld them together" So if I understand everything you guys said the tires that go on demountable rims would not go on split rims and vice versa. Side note: I am 37 and he is 72 and our winter project has been making the wood for my '24 roadster, we are both having alot of fun. Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Bunner on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:24 am:

Mack,
I should have sold you the split rim tool while I was at it... It makes changing the tire on the split rim a snap... Sorry, but I hadn't thought about it while you were here.

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:51 am:

Mark,

On Model T cars, there are basically two kinds of tires. The earliest cars have clincher tires which have no wire in the bead and are stretched over the rim. The inflation pressure forces these tires into the C cross section of the wheel and holds them in place. These wheels were available with wood felloes (pronounced "fellies") next to the spokes and later in 1919 with steel felloes. Wood felloe wheels came in two sizes 30x3 and 30x3.5. The steel felloe wheels are demountable wheels.

Ford first offered demountable (steel felloe) wheels around 1919 with clincher rims. The 30x3.5 tire was now used on all four wheels and you also got a spare.

Around 1924, Ford introduced demountable steel felloe wheels for the 21" balloon tire. The 21" tire has steel wires in the beads and it cannot be stretched over the rim. These are the split rim wheels. They have a U-shaped cross section and they are sprung into a number 6 shape to make them small enough to get the tire on and off.

Both the 21" and 30x3.5 tires could use demountable rims on different sized steel felloe wheels.

In 1926, Ford offered wire wheels. He could have done two things. He could have made the wire wheel have a demountable split rim, or he could go with a drop center. He opted for the modern one piece drop center design which we still use in a similar form today.

I will leave the round felloe, square felloe, Buffalo wires, and TT wheel discussions for the experts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:27 am:

If it were that easy, they would not have been split! Look at the wire wheel rim (26-27) You will notice the drop center. When you install the tire on the wire wheel rim, you put one side into the center and then pry the other side over the lip of the rim. The split rim has no drop center. With the wire reinforcement built into the tire, it won't stretch. So the rim was split to place or remove the tire.

The older type rim and tire (clincher) has a bead all the way around the tire which fits into a groove in the rim. The tire must be inflated much higher 60 lbs or more to keep that bead in the grove.

The "new" tire on the 25 through 27 was called a "balloon" tire which was inflated to 35 lbs because of the steel in the edge of the tire wouldn't stretch and cause the tire to come off while driving.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:28 am:

I've been around Model T's for all my life and never heard felloe pronounced anything except "fellow".

So I looked it up in the dictionary and there is an alternate synonymous word spelled felly that is pronounced "fellie" but it sure is not anything typically heard around Model T's from my experience.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:38 am:

I think the pronunciation was geographically dependent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:48 am:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/felloe

Primary pronunciation is "fellie". Secondary is "fellow". Link shown has a wave file pronouncining it.

I also get into arguments about the box with flashing lights next to my computer which is called a "rooter" and not like the tool that cuts grooves into wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:58 am:

Felloe (also Felly or Fellow) (pronounced “felly”). The curved, outside parts of a wheel rim into which the spokes are set.

http://www.guildofmodelwheelwrights.org/newsite03/techniques/terms2.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:02 am:

A rose, by any other name, is still a rose. It's not important to me what somebody wants to call something as long as your pronunciation is understood by others. If your pronunciation is correct in your book or in your region, but not in anyone elses it is like speaking another language. Making yourself understood is the important thing. I think if I referred to a felloe as a felly, I would get looked at funny, because no one, that I know, recognizes that pronunciation. Referring to a felloe as a felly is as foreign to me as referring to a motor block as a motor blick. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:11 am:

Jim, To avoid confusion, I call the things on my car by one of two names. Wood Wheels, or Wire Wheels.

A long time ago I was taught the correct pronounciation and all I did was share it with this forum.

p.s. My car does not have a motor in it since it's pre-19. I only have an engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:34 am:

This is exactly what Alex Brown is talking about and one very good reason why there aren't more young people in the hobby.

I'd bet that the young people couldn't care less how it is pronounced. They've probably read so much here about how to swell spokes, what species of wood to use, how to paint them, the 492 ways of assembling them, eliminating wobble, that they can fail, etc. that they've probably decided that wire wheels are the only way to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 11:36 am:

Seth. LOL! While I would love to see more people in the hobby, I would hate to imagine they decided against getting into it because Royce, Thomas and I were having a discussion on how to pronounce felloe. If you are suggesting that we censor ourselves from saying the things that are on our minds because it might confuse the poor younger folks and discourage them from joining then I say you are being unreasonable and underestimating the intelligence of the curious newbies that come on here to take a look.

This is a Model T forum designed for Model T enthusiasts to exchange ideas and information and if someone decides against getting into Model T's because they can't understand or are unable to dicipher the diverse and sometimes contradictory opinions, or don't have the intelligence or patience to wade through the various opinions and come to their own conclusions, then I say maybe we don't need folks like that. Model T's require perseverence, patience, dedication, research and investment of time and resources and this site is a good resource by which we can continue to learn and expand our knowledge from you and people like you, who have taken the time to come to your own conclusions by doing it yourself and learning from your mistakes along the way, then sharing your experiences with the Forum so that those reading your postings can learn from them. In my opinion, the more diverse opinions, ideas and techniques, the better, for it certainly will not serve the Forum, or those of us who use it, to discourage the posting of ideas because it might confuse a few readers. Post it all! I, and most of the readers of the Forum, can sort it out and hopefully, the newbies can benefit from our discussions and learn from it. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 11:43 am:

I'm sorry if I caused the rest of you felloes any grief.
Regards,
Tom Miller


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:18 pm:

Could it be that the multiple of felloe is felly?

Can you fathom how many felly a fellow can ferry on a filly from Philadelphia?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:23 pm:

Jerry,

I just sent you an e-mail regarding Piquette Ts to your e-mail in your profile. Any response would be appreciated.

Tom Miller


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