I've done business with Mark at Model T Haven twice with less than satisfactory results.
Anybody else deal with them?
I did. I'm satisfied with what I got and the price I got it at.
Here! I'm not sure if it was bad business or my lack of experence. I bought a rolling chassis w/drive line. 1st, As I tore the car down to raw, it was missing engine and tranny internal parts. I did not bother to bring it to his attention because I had most of the parts on hand. 2nd, I paid 1,500.00 for this and the more I got inside the engine/drive line the more I found this car had few reusealbe parts due to extreme use. Bad business or my inexperence? Does not matter now, the car is close to running. Would I buy another car from Haven? Probibly not.
My past experience with Model T Haven was not positive and I will not deal with them in the future....Michael Pawelek
Like I said, satisfied with what I got, but it was a running and driving truck that he (supposedly) had just purchased at a Nebraska auction. I saw some cars being pieced together there though. Sounds like what Tyrone described.
I was, however, less than satisfied with Mark's untruthfulness after the sale. I had already paid for the truck and was getting ready to load it, and he told me he had put a rebuilt carb on it. NOT! He also told me the thumping in the front of the engine was a loose crank pulley. NOT! I still can't get over the fact that he tried to "sell" me the truck with false statements AFTER I had already told him I was happy with it and paid him for it (in cash too...no worries about stopped payment on a check or anything). All he had to do was smile and wave bye. I probably won't go there again, but I'm glad I got my TT.
I got a truck flatbed in pretty good shape, for a lot less than a couple of others that were available in similar condition elsewhere. It was also three counties away instead of hundreds of miles, so I saved saved a bundle on the price and on getting the thing home. I'm very satisfied. BUT, a lot of the stuff there needs plenty of work and replacement parts. If I was buying one of those $1500 chassis, I would sure look it over very carefully.
I bought a touring car from there and it was pieced together with three bodies and the rings were removed so the engine would turn over. My fault it was in the begining of my T venture and was sight unseen. I haven't bought anything else. That body is now unfortunately a Hot Rod and cruising around Florida.
I bought my '24 tudor sedan body from him and feel I got what he described on the phone and showed in pictures he sent me. I would say I am very satisfied with that much.
Otherwise, he told me up front that it was missing a few things, namely two of the window regulators, some of the garnish molding, and the sill mounting brackets. He explained that any parts missing he would, not might, find me within a year. I'm at 11 1/2 months now and he hasn't delivered. My one gripe is that he's told me numerous times that he has at least the sill mounting brackets on a frame out in the yard yet he "can't find them". I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, that it's not poor customer service after the sale and that he really can't find them amongst all the rest of his parts, but I think I'd rather be told that he just doesn't have them if that's really the case. Can't build a car without those 4 silly brackets!
If there's ever a next T for me I'd consider buying from him again, but I'd get all the critical parts up front before I give him any $$. I wish I lived closer (I'm in Maine) so I could just go and see all his parts!!
I happened to be going through Kansas and picked up some items. Felt I was treated well and the prices were fair for the things I bought. As he has acres of stuff as well as a few buildings with other pieces and almost all of it is well used, it is really best to spend cautiously or look before you buy. I've had as good or better luck at swap meets or from other local club members.
They had two similar carbide generators when I was looking for one online; I definitely asked for the better of the two but they shipped the lesser one. I didn't complain and am not really complaining now because for what I wanted to do with it, the condition difference wasn't such a big deal. With this experience, however, I would be very specific if I bought from them based on pictures, and I would definitely prefer to rely on my own inspection in person, not their description by computer or phone.
I got a few parts from Mark and the price was great
Is there any evidence that the missing parts were removed prior to the sale.
This is what this forunm is for. To share ther experience of others. I am glad that the thread was apparently left alone and expresses the feelings of the submitters.
Evidence they were removed before the sale? Yeah, I would assume if they weren't there after the sale, they were removed before
I dunno who your post is directed to...I just had to interject my smart-aleck comment. Sorry, Noel, been awake since this time yesterday and started to get goofy I guess
If your question is directed to me, the body had been taken all apart and shipped in cardboard via UPS. I don't see where any of the parts I need had been removed by Mark. Like I had said above, I was very satisfied with my purchase. Mark seems like an honest guy and I was happy with my purchase. My problem is related to my after-the-sale experience and that's not the end of the world, just frustrating at times.
I wish to record my satisfaction in my dealings with Mark. I bought two Ts from him last year, one a 1926 Roadster Pick up and the other a rolling chassis. I am pleased with my purchase. He helped with the paper work in shipping my Ts to Ireland.
I hope to be in Chickasha next month and plan to call to Mark at Model T Haven where I and colleagues are always greeted and treated with respect and hospitality.
Long may Mark serve the T community.
WILLIAM CUDDY - Ireland
Beware of "body needs wood", these bodies are thrown together from the parts in the yard with a few bolts and bolted to the car. Most are bare bones cars that need every thing from wiring to rings and valves etc. If you want a long term project car the price is ok,if you think your going to drive it soon forget it! I'm not going back. John
Score: 6 definate No. 4 definate Yes. 4 conditional Yes.
John, I agree that the less expensive rust buckets on his site are not quick projects. But, the 1910 Ebay thread causes me to say that I definitely feel that the pictures Mark puts on his (Model T Haven's) website give me a great idea of what I'd be buying. I've stared at that '23 touring car for some time now, and more recently the '25 touring. I realize they may be made of body panels from several different cars, but they clearly are full restoration cars no matter how you slice it. At least most of the visible parts are the right year. I think the price is pretty fair after seeing Ebay prices and prices of parts here in Maine.
Before I bought my tudor sedan body from him I seriously considered driving out to look at and probably buy one of those cars. Spending that money I would certainly want to see it in person whether I buy it from him or anyone else.
I will have to agree with Mike. The pictures he posts are better than most Ebay seller's pictures and they leave little room for question as to what is there and it's condition. I still have all the pictures that were posted on the site of my TT, and looking over them again and recalling the original conversation I don't feel I was misled in any way before the sale (as far as what I was buying). My only gripe is like I said, after he was paid he continued to try and sell me the truck with untruths, and that to this day makes me wonder if he was trying to divert my attention away from something.
I guess I'm just suspicious. If someone is here picking up something they've already bought, I'll be trying to sell them something else other than trying to sell them on what they already bought and paid for. By the way, they offered and sent many additional pictures of the truck...much better resolution pictures than those on the site. I do believe Mark wants to be sure you know what you are getting.
Several years ago I had several business encounters with Model T Haven. First I ordered a low speed transmission drum and when it arrived it was for the reverse gear. I returned it and MTH refunded my money with an apology. Secondly I ordered two sets of brackets for mounting to repro front fenders. They were well used, as expected, but perfectly usable with a little work. I was very happy with both deals. My 2 cents worth is that it is obvious that what you buy from MTH is going to be rough, rusty and requiring work to refurbish.
I have bought many parts from MTH and never had a single problem. Mark has been both helpful and honest with THIS Model T neophite and has answered every stupid question I asked. I have always asked the condition of items before I purchased them, just to be sure I would be getting something I could work with. Let's be honest - he deals in very old used parts. It is highly unlikely that most of what comes out of his yard is going to be anything near mint or even good + condition. That said, I have always gotten what I expected. The one time I had a problem it was my fault and they did me right in getting it corrected. I understand some folks have had a bad experience in buying "whole" cars from him - this is not the first I have heard of it, and I have no opinion on that since I have never done so myself. I must admit that it never entered my mind that someone would slap together a "whole" car from parts. (Like I said, I'm a relative Model T neophite!) However, I don't really see a problem with that, provided that there is some indication that that is what the car is, which I have never seen on his site. All I've ever seen on his descriptions are bare bones facts - "Engine turns", "Needs body wood", "Most metal there", etc... Perhaps if you are interested in a car and e-mail/call him he explains what you're getting. I don't know. Would I buy my next project from him? I would certainly consider it, in light of my past dealings with him. Would I ask a ton of direct, to the point questions? I would now!
Thanks to everyone on this forum I have become better 'T' educated (and 'T' dealer/parts dealer educated) in the past few months than I would have imagined possible. This forum and you guys are the best. Thanks!
All I've ever seen on his descriptions are bare bones facts - "Engine turns", "Needs body wood", "Most metal there", etc...
Engine turns but what has been removed internally to allow it to turn??
When you buy a complete car 26-27 and the subfame and connecting panels are three seperate car pieces, spot welded and misted with some black paint, it makes you wonder whats going on. Omited information doesn't help when your told its a complete body.
I have bought some small parts from Mark thru Ebay and they were fine. I wouldn't buy another project car though unless I was building a Rat Rod.