1912 Body Styles / Pics

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: 1912 Body Styles / Pics
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 06:25 pm:

I am wondering if anyone has some body pics of 1912 with an engine serial number somewhere around this range 132001 - 157424?

I am looking for what body style an engine casting date of mid August may have.

What foredoors, which way doors open and what handles etc

Thanks in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 11:10 pm:

Here's a late 1912 Touring with the doors removed. This body style was used from about Febuary 1912 until October 1912. Click on the link to see more pictures of this somewhat over restored car.

http://www.stoneaire.com/ST-07-306_files/index.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 11:58 pm:

Thanks Royce...I know theres info around but its hard to decifer what is an early and late 12 body...

THanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 12:02 am:

Wow, check out '09 Model T #3921 those folks have for sale.
http://www.stoneaire.com/ST-07-290_files/index.htm
They also have an '06 Model N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 01:07 am:

My dad has the early body style. It's serial number is 106,xxx.
/image{dad's}


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 01:07 am:

oops! dad's


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Otto Baron on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 06:39 am:

If I recall, only the right Foredoor opened, the left did not. I think the foredoors were also able to be installed on the earlier T bodies, if one wanted to update their car's appearence.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 08:56 am:

"Howard Taft for President 1912"



rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 01:26 pm:

My '12 is serial # 114,*** and does not have the support rods for the windshield running to the front of the frame. Only the right front door opens and the top secures with short straps directly to the windshield as opposed to securing to the head light brackets with long straps. So there was obviously a change somewhere between serial # 106,*** and # 114***. I will try to get a picture for you but I am not very good at computers and the car is buried in the garage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 01:53 pm:

I should clarify that my '12 does have support rods for the windshield but they attach to a bracket on the frame as opposed to attaching directly to the frame the way the supports do for my '10. Another obvious difference is that the door handles are not on the outside of the doors as they are on the earlier body style. I tried to post some pictures but that appears to be beyond my computer abitlities. I will email some pictures to you if you give me your email address.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 01:56 pm:

Val,

What supports your windshield if it does not have the tubes running to the front of the fender / headlight brackets? Are you sure you don't have a 1913 body? Or maybe somone has installed 1913 windshield supports?

If you want you can email a picture to me roycegte@earthlink.net and I can post it for you.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:34 pm:

Look what the early bird at a swapmeet gets. This is only the second time I have seen an early body for sale at a meet.



Rather than fix this one, the seller had a new bod made by Ray Wells.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 05:27 pm:

How could you turn your back on a body like that???

Val my email is smbayley@snap.net.nz999 remove the 999

be please to see your pics

Have you got that body on a car yet Ricks?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 06:43 pm:

Looks nice Ralph! It is a late '12 body like Simon is inquiring about. Did the front right door and left panel come with it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 07:01 pm:

Rick,

Did you actually pick that up yesterday (I had to work) and what needs to be fixed? looks nice to me.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 08:34 pm:

I could pull the box and body off the ol' brass picup, and have this on in a matter of hours, Simon. How would it look with yellow fenders and runningboards?

No front doors, Royce. We don't need no steenking doors!

Yes, Alex, got it within five minutes of the gates opening at noon. Been figuring to make a Tourabout seat to go in the picup box, but this is better. It is basically broken just ahead of the rear seat, so will take some major structural work to be whole again. The firewall is firewood. The upholstery is aged and distressed nauga.

Neither the clock nor the speedometer appear to work. The speedo is not much good to me anyhow, as it only goes to 50.

I'm one more in the market for a top for a 1912 Touring...
rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel (Indiana Trucks) on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:06 pm:

Ricks,

I can solve your problem of needing a top for a 1912 Touring if you send me an e-mail.



Just sell me the body so I can build that 1912 I have been wanting!

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:22 pm:

Way to go, Ralph! Doors are easy to build!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:22 pm:

Thanks, Bob; I had plenty of offers to sell it before I even moved it. This be a keeper.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:28 pm:

Rick,
You did good, today I couldn't find anything I needed. I've got a good watch/clock mechanic if you need one.

Family joke, every year on my mother's birthday (she was born in 1912) I'd make a toast "to my Mother who was born the same year Ford made front doors an option"

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel (Indiana Trucks) on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:33 pm:

Ricks,

How does it feel to know everyone just wants your body!???? LOL

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend, Gresham, Orygun on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:36 pm:

Rd-
The speedo looks like a 1915 Ford Special.
Very nice body.
I can her you telling Rona now, "Honey, look what followed me home..."

-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:43 pm:

Ralph,

Great find! And thank you so much for posting the picture of the body number (B45190). The “B” would indicate Beaudett (also spelled Beaudette). I believe your picture is of the front seat frame, in front of the wooden gas tank cover – but if it was some other location, please let us know. Again, congratulations!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 01:56 am:

When I showed it to her today, the wife said, "But, we need the picup." Such a dilemma.

Yes, Hap, the bod # is on the front seat frame in large characters. I made sure to find that before I paid.

At the end of the Orange Empire / San Diego Groups' HCCA Autumn Leaf Tour back in '01, we were the only ones still at the hotel on Sunday, and we got a call from the lobby. A young woman from the local area identified herself as the great granddaughter of OJ Beaudette of Beaudette Buggy Works, the maker of our car's body. I kindly explained he did not make ours, but made a lot of them for Fords. I gave her and her young daughter a short ride in the ol' brass picup.

OJ sold out to Fisher Body in 1918, and his descendents are still benefiting. I'm in occasional email contact with her and other family members. I'll be letting them know of my prize.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 10:34 am:

Here are the pictures of Val Soupios' car, a beautiful very late '12. His top straps attach to a hook bolted to the windshield hinge.

Looks to be a twin to the body Ralph purchased. Both have the door handles moved from outside to the inside, and both came with a front door on the right side that is removable. The driver side has a panel that is also removable.

Notice the support rods for the windshield, the unequal halves of the windshield frame, one piece firewall and rear doors that hinge at the forward end.

val1

val2

val3
val4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 01:14 pm:

All the Touring pix in the Photo Gallery for 1912 have a one piece firewall. The one piece firewall provides a continuous line to the body. The two piece firewall had to be a holdover from 1908, when the windshield was an option.

I fail to see why the equal panels windshield is defined for the earlier cars. Total height is the same, making the choice rather arbitrary. I'm happy for the taller lower panel on the ol' brass picup, as I'm 6', and the taller panel provides considerable wind protection.

Witness this 1909, taken in Wendling, Oregon.



Extra points if you've been to Wendling, or even heard of it. Coilman is disqualified, as he grew up on the high roller side of the Willamette from me..

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 01:46 pm:

Ralph,

Here's my 1912. The engine block date is 11-22-11, serial number 93622. It is a model year or fiscal year 1912 car with the 1911 body style. This style was discontinued when the later style body (like yours) was introduced around February. Front doors were supplied on this early style body beginning around January.

12





The unequal sized windshield is one of the styling changes that happened along with the introduction of front doors and the relocation of the rear door hinges. There are many other less obvious changes that happened along the course of the year. All the changes were phased in, so it would not surprise me if there were a February 1912 car with the new forward hinged doors and the early style windshield, or any other combination of parts that could have been present at the time things changed from one type to the improved part.


Take a look at Bruce's black book, or the older book written by Bruce and Ray Miller. Either one will clearly delineate the progression of styling changes. The older book has a section called "The two Model T's of 1912" which is particularly good at showing the differences by having pictures of the early and late 1912 body styles side by side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Griffin on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 11:19 pm:

.Guys,
I have the Ford documentation that States all touring cars shipped after Oct. 1, 1911 will have foredoors. The early doors have dips in the small section to compensate for the two piece dash. This went away after the one piece dash appeared. The early bodies, similar to the 1911 style Oct1911 to early Jan 1912, came will both a fix and opening driver’s door contrary to conventional wisdom. I have several original pictures to prove this.

There were 5 body styles in 1912. 1st 1911 body style two piece dash, 2nd the 1911 body with one piece dash, 3rd slab sided with back doors opening from the front with out side door handles, 4th slab sided with rear doors opening from the rear with out side door handles and 5th rear door opening from the rear with door handles on the inside.

I know the last three are basically the same body with the only different being the rear doors but different never the less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 12:51 am:

Would someone care to explain the unequal windshield on this 1909?

Do you suppose the owner knew he had the wrong windshield? Oh, the shame of it.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 08:18 am:

Ralph,

Windshields were optional in 1909 and not standardized as they were in 1911 / 12 and later. I think there could be any number of period correct different windshields on a 1909, since the car could be ordered without one.

The owner and his hottie girl friend look happy to me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 05:29 pm:



Hi there,

I came across this picture in an a vintage car magazine. It looks to have 12 accessories on it but with a 13 styled body? Was this common or was it somthing down for the colonies? I have seen a few examples of these combinations now both in NZ and OZ. Maybe Henry used ups his left over parts to the colonies?


Any info would be greatly appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 06:25 pm:

Simon,
Great picture of an what appears to be an almost new car. Early 13's with all brass lights do exist. Generally speaking Ford did use up parts and it is not uncommon to see mixtures of parts on original cars. That is part of what makes it hard to define a "typical" Model T for a given model year.

It is hard to see on this car but the dropped edge on the front fender goes forward at a slight angle. That is typical of an early 13. On later 13's that edge is vertical.

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 08:03 pm:

Another example of a '12 accessories with '13 body style? Also I have noticed it has the '12 style windshield brass rods?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:32 pm:

Simon,

Roger Gardner, the author of the book "Ford Ahead...a History of The Colonial Motor Company Limited" [in New Zealand] shared with me that Ford of Canada often had left over parts that they used up on the next years model – especially if they were shipping them to NZ etc.. Some of that was by design – for example the ribbed 1915 pedals were discontinued in the USA during 1915 but Ford of Canada continued to manufacture them and use them into the 1920s. (I wonder if Ford USA may have shipped the surplus molds for the ribbed transmission pedals to Ford CA? With the lower production and an increased number of molds they would have remained serviceable for a much longer time. Or perhaps the Ford Canada molds just lasted longer because of the lower production rate and Ford USA didn’t ship them any surplus molds.) Bruce shares at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm
MAR 22, 1915 Acc. 1701. Model T Releases, Ford Archives
"Have removed the grooves from the surface of the foot (pedal) pads, making them smooth, with a fify-five degree bevel 1/16" deep around the edge. Also changed the thickness of pads at edges from 5/32 to 1/8", leaving then 5/32" thick at each side of arm where it joins pad. This change to take place when dies are resunk, all forgings which we have on hand at that time to be used up." (Joseph Galamb)


And even in the USA – with the different assembly plants it was common for older parts “within reason” to be used up. The start of the 1915 Model year is one of the more obvious illustrations of that. The assembly plants continued to produce 1914 model year open cars for several months while at the same time the Highland Park plant (as well as the Panama-Pacific International Exposition assembly line in San Francisco) produces the 1915 model year open cars. That may also have been caused by a shortage of 1915 style bodies – but the effect was the same – older parts were being assembled at the same time newer parts were being assembled. And the early 1915 Models used the 1913-1914 style rear axles. Ford usually stated “use up existing stocks” when they made transitions.

And if a box car arrived a month late because it had been misrouted – I still think those parts would have been added to the cars coming off the line assuming they would fit ok. I.e. a box car full of brass radiators arriving two months late after they had already switched the line to the steel radiator production – probably would have gone into the replacement parts area rather than the production line use area. But lights that would fit and function the same – who cares if they had more or less brass – they fit – use them.

There is an excellent picture of a USA dealership with freshly arriving 1913 style bodies that have the all brass lamps also. I don’t know about the Canadian production but for the USA 1912 transition to 1913 Model year, Bruce McCalley on page 154 of his book shares: “Larry Smith has studied the 1913 Ford for more years than he can remember, and probably knows more of the detail differences in this model year tan most of the “experts,” including the author.” With that introduction, Larry Smith then shares on page 155: “As you have read many times before, Ford used up all the old style parts on the new model, and 1913 was no exception. The 1913 models produced in 1912 were simply 1912’s with 1913 bodies. Some of these cars had all-brass lights and windshields although I have yet to see the all-brass horn used.” Bruce McCalley also shares on page 154: “There appears to have been considerable overlap in 1912 and 1913 production. Original 1912 cars have been seen with black and brass lamps, steel-frame windshields, imitation leather upholstery (in part) and the “1913 rear axle. Some of this may have been due to some cars being assembled at Ford branches as well as at the Highland Park plant.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 07:01 pm:

Is that 1913 above two tone in colour? Or what is at the top of the doors?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 10:14 pm:

That '13 is an interesting amalgam. Note it has a louvered hood. And look at the jacket draped over the rear fender - it seems to curve down and to the rear as if it were draped across a '15 fender, not the straight-across-at-the-back fenders we associate with earlier T's. It may be that, while the picture is very old, it's not of a new car, but rather of one that's been around a while and lived through some modifications.


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