The MTFCA is pleased to announce that Ford Motor Company and the Ford Fund are the title sponsors of the Centennial T Party scheduled for July 21-26, 2008 in Richmond/Centerville, Indiana.
The link to their press release is:
Just for my information, in what way will Ford Motor Company sponsor this celebration? It is organized by, paid for by and completly ran by the individual Model T owners. Other than taking credit for our work are they donating a large financial backing or providing other services?
Great! Congratulations on getting their recognition and cooperation. They should make it a world class event. It's almost enough for me to make the drive.
Barbara and Jay
This is truly remarkable news!
One hundred years ago Ford Motor Company commenced Model T production.
Having Ford Motor Company sponsor and be a significant part of the Model T Ford Club of America 2008 Centennial Model T celebration in Richmond, Indiana truly lends an unparalleled cachet to this event.
I can only guess as to the amount of effort it took to make this happen. This is truly a testimonial to the MTFCA Board of Directors leadership and your day to day management for the benefit of the MTFCA membership.
I believe the MTFCA 2008 Centennial event will be long remembered.
Ron the Coilman
This is great! It seems only logical that Ford should be involved, and I'm glad that they finally saw it that way. I'm going to get a dictionary now, to look up "cachet".
Does the price go down for us?
I'll save you a click:
“T Party 2008”
Ford Motor Company, with support from Ford Motor Company Fund, is the title sponsor for the “T Party 2008” celebration hosted by the Model T Ford Club of America, which plans to bring in close to 1,000 Model Ts for this significant milestone.
The “T Party 2008” will be held July 21-26 in Richmond, Ind., and is expected to be the largest gathering of Model Ts since they left the factory. The weeklong centennial celebration will draw over ten thousand Model T owners and enthusiasts from around the world. More than 700 Model Ts are already registered for the event, including entries from England, Norway, Australia and New Zealand.
“The support and response we’re receiving around the T Party has been phenomenal. The Model T Ford Club of America has been looking forward to celebrating this milestone for many years,” said Jay Klehfoth, chief executive officer, Model T Ford Club of America. “We’re thankful for Ford’s support in helping bring this event alive to the thousands of Model T enthusiasts who will join us from around the world.”
One hundred years ago, the Ford Model T changed the world with its technology and the same concept has lived with Ford ever since.
“The Ford Model T is rightly credited with putting the world on wheels, and its influence can still be felt today,” said Jim Vella, president, Ford Motor Company Fund and Community Services. “We’re proud to join in the celebration of one hundred years of fantastic Ford heritage and innovation with Model T enthusiasts from around the world, and we look forward to carrying the legacy and spirit of the Model T into the future.”
For more information on the “T Party 2008” centennial celebration, please visit www.tparty2008.com. Additional Model T centennial celebration events are being planned and will be announced later this year.
I think Jim's question is a good one and deserves a straight answer.
What's a "title sponsor"? Can they get me a title for my TT?
Well with Ford sponsoring it, It's likely they'll encourage the use of their company name. I seem to remeber a thread where it seems that some Ford enthusists were given problems over using the company name on club materials.
I would hope that the reaction to the newsthat The Ford Motor Co has joined in with the celebration would be met with a positive attitude. It would be great if William Clay Ford Jr. would participate in the celebration. He is I believe Henry's great grandson. The Ford Motor Co is in a struggle to return to profitability & to survive in a very differant environment than existed in The Model T era. We could at the very least enjoy this week long celebration in a positive way & I can think of nothing that would top off the gathering more than the presance of a top Ford executive and or family member. I personally offer my thanks & gratitude to the many folks who have worked so hard to make this celebration a reality. Jut one persons plea for some happiness !!!
Edward R. Levy
I may be a "model T guy" but I'm not a "Ford guy". The last thing I want is Ford there pimping all their modern crap. Why so late to get on the bandwagon - Ford just waiting to see what benefits they could reap from it?
Sounds great to me. I'm just glad that we don't have Tata motors as a sponsor, or as the owner of Ford.
Ford displaying new cars and trucks at the event is also a grand idea. Many of us use Ford F150 or 250 trucks to pull our trailers, and have other Ford products at home. Sponsorship must have its rewards. That's a fair trade for their support. Nice work Barbara, Jay, and everyone else responsible!!!!!
I'm a member of the MTFCA and have been for three years. The club and its magazine, the hobbyists, and often times this forum have made "T ownership" more enjoyable for me. I feel like I have contributed to this hobby and some will agree with me on that but will likely never say that here, and I can hardly blame them for that.
I want to know, just like others do that have posted on this thread:
How, exactly, is Ford's "sponsorship" going to enhance my experience at the MTFCA/MTFCI Model T Centennial Celebration?
If I ever created an item, with mine own hands, and then was too embarrassed to admit it was mine, then I would have never gone on the adventure to create it in the first place. Be happy, be proud, and support their happiness in what they've created 100 years ago! I'm sure all of your vehicles do them justice just by existing and is the testament to what was truly a revolutionary period in transportation. If they bring more bling to the event, great, then in 100 years from now people can ooh and ahh about those 200 year old Model T's that still look so much better than anything that could ever possibly be built in the future... just because they exist and because of YOU for keeping them that way!
I see that Coca Cola sponsors the annual Coke collectors convention. GM / Chevrolet division sponsors the annual Bloomington Gold Corvette convention. It is good to see that the manufacturer still cares about their products and the people who buy them.
Seth who do you propose would be a better sponsor than Ford?
The MTFCA, the MTFCI, and the participants, which was the original plan, I believe.
watch the "movie" on the main page. http://www.mtfca.com/
Something does not seem right somehow.
I would like to know what exactly Ford is contributing to this event - after it's already been planned out, booked, paid for, and ready to go.
I'm glad we have a sponsor, BUT - what are we getting in return, other than the modern Ford ad on our websites home page. And what about the people that planned this for our club? Now they have to stand in the dark shadows of that big blue oval.
I assume that your real gripe is, "where will they be when the event is over?" "will they still support the club?" or "will they just abandon the club after they get what they want?(publicity)" Good valid questions/points.
I guess my point is... It does not matter. The club will still be here. The people will still be here. Henry made something bigger than himself and his offspring, which is evident in the way people used the vehicles and their long standing record.
If I ever meet you, I'll buy you a beer, and we can watch all the T's roll by.
I just hope that my T is up off the floor by July 20th so I can get it up there for the event!
I don't think the issue is what they will be doing when it's over. I think the question is what are they doing for the event? As already pointed out, the clubs have already done all the planning, booked everything, and have it all set up. It's being paid for by the people attending. What exactly is Ford doing to sponsor it? I think it's great that Ford wants to be involved and I don't mind if they get publicity from it - if they actually are doing something.
While I can't speak for the club, I do have this to say.
The entrance fee is less than many of the tour fees the various clubs put on. While it would be nice to have the 100 celebration free, someone has to pay for the costs involved. There is the "rent" of the fair grounds, not a minor amount, the insurance, security people, taxes, and God only know what else...but lots of dollars.
Ford's participation is a great help, not only in helping with the costs but also in their planned display and general public draw. We are very pleased to have their support.
Thank you for your continued contributions to the T hobby.
I hope the club makes a profit on the event from Ford and other sponsors who choose to contribute. The club could use any extra monies remaining after the bills are paid to ensure that there is a Model T Ford Bicentennial anniversary celebration.
A big THANK YOU to the MTFCA Board, Bruce McCalley and especially to the Ford Motor Company. Collaborative positive efforts toward a great cause!!!
"The Model T Ford had a profound technological,social and economic impact on America and the world. The Model T Ford Club of America strives to preserve and promote the Model T Ford for future generations by educating people of all ages in the history,lore and skills of maintenance of the car that put America on wheels."
If Ford is joining with the MTFCA in fulfilling our misson statement, that is great.
I see the leadership of the MTFCA is doing a great job in fulfilling this duty.
This event is much bigger than Milt,Jim,Bob,John,Al,Bruce,or any of us.
I am going to enjoy every minute of the party.
The Leadership IS doing a great job. Nobody said they weren't. The Event WILL be great that there is no doubt of. Will everyone enjoy their time there? YOU BET! The fact that Ford is offering to help sponser this event is GREAT. But, HELLO the question was what are they providing other than their name? What are they bringing to the event? Nobody in the know has answered that yet....
I think that it is great to have Ford Motor Company as a sponser. Henry would be proud. Our board did a great job getting this whole tour put together. I look forward to hooking up with Milt and his Florida friends for the drive up from Tn. This will be a memorable event. Can't wait.
Well, I'll probably ruffle some feathers with my comment, but whatever. I'm happy for you folks that see some benefit to this, but so far I haven't seen anything explained that adds up to being a benefit to those of us who have OUR (not Ford's) money invested in OUR hobby (unsupported by Ford Motor Co for many decades). We pay our club dues, not to Ford, but to an organized club far removed from that corporation. I don't own a T because it says Ford on it, and in light of this news of "sponsorship" (whatever that means?)I think I will put a piece of masking tape over the name on my grille and write MY name on it with a Sharpie
Coke?? All Coke is still Coca-Cola. Maybe the formula is changed, but it's still the same color and you still drink it. All Model T's are Fords, but all Fords aren't Model T's and the reliablity of a Model T has to do with US, not the resilience of the vehicle itself or ANYTHING that Ford did in the past or present. Ford has nothing to do with our T's present condition, and they deserve zero credit for it! The Spanish can't take credit for the fact that the fort in St. Augustine, Florida is still standing, and deserve no benefits for it. It is still there because others decided it was worth preserving. T's still on the road have to do with private individuals that enjoy old vehicles, not the company that built them. If Ford is so interested in old cars, why don't they do something that can benefit us by using their lobbyists to get a law passed to make it easy in ALL states to title an antique vehicle?? Not gonna happen...their profits come from (and true interest lies in) new vehicle sales, not supporting those of us who put OUR money and OUR sweat into keeping something running that was built 80 years ago. Restoring, titling, maintaining, and making parts for T's is up to us. Understandably, when they see a profit potential, they want to join up. They gotta make money, sure...but they ain't using MY truck to do it! So far, looks like the typical situation where a corporation will take what they can get for nothing in return.
I don't like Ford, never have as far as modern vehicles. I've owned one new FoMoCo and I swore then I'd never own another. I don't see the potential benefit for the MTFCA and MTFCI (except to be used and discarded the morning after), and there seems to be no benefit for club members or attendees either. I'm glad I didn't make any further plans to attend. If I want to go to a Ford showroom, I can do it for far less expense than having them shove one in my face at a club gathering that has nothing to do with what the company has evolved into. They don't care about T's, it is simply a marketing move. They can say what they want, but their 11th hour jump on the bandwagon is nothing more than trying to align themselves with something that is popular and get their name on it, and give the general public some false impression that the idea was theirs. My T isn't theirs, and resembles nothing that they build except the name on it (which they can have). I'll like my TT just fine with "Elkins" Sharpie'd on the grille.
What are they bringing, Andy asked. They'll bring a lot of hoopla and some new vehicles that are not T's, to a celebration that isn't theirs, wasn't planned for them or to honor them, and has nothing to do with them. The only thing I can think that might happen is some enthusiasm being fueled somewhere in the general public to get into the hobby.
Gladly I won't be there. Much rather spend a weekend with my family in Gatlinburg or Branson than be blasted by advertisements. Corporate involvement tends to ruin an otherwise good thing.
My comments are mine and do not represent the opinions of any club or organization. They are based on the information I have at hand. If there is some great amount of monetary assistance that the company is offering to the clubs for the benefit of furthering the existence of the hobby and MTFCI and MTFCA, then I sincerely apologize to the company and readers. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt, and I usually will to an individual, but when it comes to big corporations (and to quote a fellow forum member whom I respect) I'll "sort'em at the door".
That's ok Ray Elkins, and while you're 'sorting at the door' don't let it hit you on the way out!
gotta do better than that
Easy there Royce, I own shares in Tata motors.
Instead of helping finance the party (and we still don't know how much), how's about cutting us old car owners a break and stop charging a licensing fee to put their name on reproduction parts, making a profit off items that they have no hand in producing, marketing or manufacturing......
Sorry Tyrone. I did not mean to offend any Jaguar owners. Heck I guess it would be OK if Tata Motors wanted to kick in some cash and be a sponsor too. We can use all the money to support our Model T club that we can get.
Not that what I have to say matters because I'm not a member of any club, but I do own two T's. A year and a half ago I bought this rusted up pile of steel to build a car just because I got excited about being part of the BIG 100 year Celebration. I have lost count of the dollars and the hours I have spent to make a car I could be proud to show against folk with cars far more costly then mine at this big show. Atop of my T, I have bought a larger vehicle to pull my new used trailer to haul my T to the big show. Wife and I paid in advance $80.00 a night motel cost, planning on having to pay outrages prices for gas, food cost, and all other expences just so that I can show my car at the big show.
Two days ago I find out that in order to show my car in the big show I have to register and pay a fee. I guess I was thinking all along that there would be a great big open area to show many cars to the public and fellow T owner. Now the
$125.00 +/- fee I admit is a drop in a bucket compared to what I have invested in the car and to what it is going to cost my wife and me to get and be there for a couple days. I realize this is a once in a life time event and should not be missed for any reason and that it is worth any amount of money be a part of. But I truely find myself torn between going and not based on the fact I have to pay a fee to simply show my car at the big show. I know of all the goodies I will get to be registered, its just the princible of what I HAVE to do to be a real part of the big show.
BUT THATS NOT ALL NOW. I come from a FORD family. I have owned Fords for as long as I can remember, but to now have FORD inc. to suddenly become interested in this show is over the line for me. This 100 year celebration belongs to those and to only those who have poured hard earned bucks and blood and sweat into preserving the legacy of this car, not Ford Motor companies legacy, but the Model T car. Ford Inc. got their interest back when they sold the cars. I am having heart burn with the idea of Ford Motor Inc. stepping in to take any credit (and at the last moment) for this special event. If Ford would say come in under the table in sponcering the event and would keep a low profile, that would be one thing. I just don't like the fact that Ford wants reconition off of my hard work and hard earned money building this car. Now if Ford was to pay everyones enterence fee, I don't mind being used for their benefit. I was really looking forward to going and maybe I still will but in light of all that I have learned in the past 48 hours, I told my wife I will decide by the end of this weekend. tyrone
hmmm this has been an interesting thread.
Now, for the basic question that hasn't been answered, but has been hinted at: Exactly how does Ford sponsorship help the MTFCA and participants of this event? Bruce has hinted about $$ to help offset the expenses, but no one has said definitively. I too would like to know how Ford sponsorship benefits us, the MTFCA.
Having said that, I don't give a rip one way or the other whether Ford Motor Company is there or not. If I want to look at the vehicles they bring, I will. But the odds are, I won't. I am bringing my 1912 Model T. I'm going to look at and drool over other model t's. My wife and I are going on Model T tours, and Model T seminars. Ford Motor Co's presence there isn't going to have any influence on my enjoyment of the event whatsoever.
I never have been able to understand folks who let something they don't agree with, spoil their fun at a party. Don't like chocolate cake? don't eat it. But enjoy the rest of the party. And besides, where can I get some of that Tata Motors stock? ;-)
And to corporate greed and other cowards who hide behind a nom de plume on various threads, your posts get the attention they deserve, nada, since you haven't the courage of your convictions to sign your name, but use anonymity to flame others. I may disagree with Ray Elkins on his post, but I respect the man for his integrity. Thanks for posting Ray, even if you are wrong! LOLOL I always read your posts, because I generally find them helpful and informative.
Regards to all,
Thanks Steven...I truly may be wrong, and for the sake of the hobby I hope I am. I just think Ford Motor Co. has about as much business claiming responsibility for the present-day Model T's as I do claiming I won World War II. My grandfather had a hand in it, but don't salute me for it and I won't claim to be responsible.
Thanks for being civil, Steven, and nice to know we can agree to disagree. My post wasn't directed at any club member or meant as a personal attack toward any indiviual T club member.
I like chocolate cake, but if the ACLU or NAMBLA decides to step in at the last minute and claim (or insinuate) some responsibilty for the party, I'll make my own cake at home rather than be guilty by association
Ford has the resources to make this a world class event worthy of the Model T. Not to belittle the MTFCA, it does not have the resources in money, infrastructure or people. Ford routinely does large events of the caliber that are once in a lifetime for the MTFCA. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
Did Ford do justice to its Centennial? They provided loaner cars to at least some T people, and when the Galdi twins were badly injured in a crash in one of those cars, Ford stepped in and got them the best medical care available.
Ford has to answer to management and shareholders. If they can show $2 Million in value by spending $1 Million on the T centennial, they will do it, and the T hobby will benefit. Let them advertise and sell cars; they deserve it.
Ol' brass picup
1912 Touring body
1987 E-350 box van
1993 Jaguar Vandenplas
1995 Escort (#1 son)
1996 E-350 (#2 son)
And still nobody can or will say what Ford is providing for their "Title Sponsorship" I've seen some interesting opinions about this by reading this thread. I agree with what Steven said. It doesn't matter a hill of beans if they are there or not. The question we as members who support this club with our dues asked was. What did Ford Motor Company and the Ford Fund offer for the recognition of their "Title Sponsorship"
If it was a big fat zero thats OK inquireing minds just want to know......
Whether Ford Motors Inc is sponsoring the event or not will not sway me on whether I attend the Centenial or not. I like to think that I am a T guy and I have played with them for over 20 years. This event is so significant to the hobby that I enjoy that I am paying the entrance fee, the motel room, the tour costs, some seminar costs, looking forward to seeing your great cars, meeting some great and interesting people from the forum, and finally paying for our tickets to fly over to the US from Australia.
The issue of Ford's sponsorship is just a bonus to me. I only wish I could bring my '14 with me but it won't fit in the suitcase along with my wife's clothes!!
Look forward to meeting some of you in July.
Ricks, "Let them adertise and sell cars; they deserve it." I respectfully have to disagree with that as far as them pushing their wears and name here. Unless there is an equil benefit to Ford as well as the club members, Fords sponsoring the event should not be allowed. I say this because people are having to pay a fee to attend and to show their cars. Therefore, this show belongs to the people who pay the fee. To me, if Ford wants to Sponsor this event (and recieve credit) this should mean the event be free to all those who want to partisapate.
I still contend, Ford got credit and paid once for the Model t when they sold it. Now they want to horn in on the glory which should be reserved to those indiviauls who have invested in preserving the Model t "at their own expense." Where was Fords sponsorship when many T's were rusting away holding back the creek bank? Where was Fords Sponsorship when it took years for folks to afford to buy and finish the T's that they are so proud of?
Now right now we don't know (i'm guessing) just how this interest of Fords will benefit the car builder/owner directly if at all, and it should, so I may be talking out of turn. But if Ford wants credit for the Model T, again, then at the very least, they should open the registration to all and refund those who have paid. Just my thoughts. Thnaks all for bringing this subject to light. This an important subject and I hope that the Powers To BE are reading. tyrone. got to get to work now.
Months ago, when registration opened for the party, there was great concern over the cost for the participants. A rather heated thread here records the sentiments. The outcome of that thread was positive in that most folks agreed to the high cost because WE were paying for a party with little "sponsorship".
Fine. OUR party that WE are paying for.
No mention of Ford Motor Company whatsoever.
Now the blue oval is headlines, Jim Sims asked his question over a day and a half ago and plenty of us echoed it (even a Ford guy!) and the only answer we got was from Bruce who told us about all the high costs involved.
We heard this answer months ago when Ford wasn't involved.
Ford will bring things the MTFCA and its members cannot: major publicity for one. They may well bring in other sponsors such as the History Channel.
MTFCA may be barred by Ford from stating how much Ford is paying. That wouldn't surprise me at all.
Ford is taking credit for what Ford did 100 years ago to build the most important car of all time. Whether they subsidize entry fees for people who tow their Ts with Toyotas to Indiana is up to the MTFCA to negotiate on behalf of the entrants.
For those of us in the majority who will not attend, the more the publicity the better, and nobody is better positioned for that than Ford.
Is this not any different than Chrysler being at the big Mo-par Rallies and General Motors being at The Corvette Shows? I personally would be disappointed if they were not involved a little. I don't think they will be trying to tell those in charge how to run it. And yes I drive Fords. I have had two new Dodges one of them being a 69 charger that I wish I still had, and one new Chevy Blazer. The posi trac went out of it twice the top of the transmission broke and the shifter pulled up out of it. The back window fell out of it,all this in 32,000 miles, and it was never an off road vehicle. I traded it for a 79 Bronco and in the 110,000 miles I drove it I never had a wrench on it.
Guys, we elected officers in the club who have the responsibility to decide matters in the best interest of all of us. Those officers had an easy decision I imagine to accept sponsorship (money and other tangible benefits) from Ford Motor Company on behalf of all members of the MTFCA. As a member of the MTFCA I applaud the decision.
As someone who has organized and worked at many car shows over the years I also know that regardless of how perfect a job you do there will always be someone who has a big problem. This is simply part of human nature. Some people just can't be happy. Some people just don't see the big picture. There may be 50 or 60 people who post messages here on a regular basis. There are several thousand members of the club who benefit from this event.
There is a small group of maybe 20 people primarily responsible for the Centennial show. Please understand that they read this stuff and give them a break every now and then.
Ray, I never thought you were attacking anyone. That is what is so wonderful about this forum, almost all of the posters are civil and do not engage in personal attacks. The very few that do are quickly called to task.
Now, A PLEA!!! I have deep respect for our board of directors, and the folks who have put this party together. I can imagine how excited they are that Ford has agreed to be a/the Title Sponsor (whatever that means), and possibly bring some money, expertise, personnel, and whatever else to help make this a great success.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (yes, the caps are deliberate!) bring your knowledge of the situation to this discussion! If you cannot tell us anything because negotiations with Ford are ongoing - Tell us this! We're big boys, and gals, we can handle that and understand. If you have some things nailed down with Ford [such as each registered participant will receive 100 shares of Ford stock ;-)] please tell us what you can. All our ignorant speculations are simply not good for the party, and detract from what is going to be a great event. Simply tell us what you can, and if you can't yet tell us anything, inform us of that also.
Respectfully and hopefully,
Why, out of all the collector car clubs out there, are some Model T Ford owners the most miserable, cynical, cheap, and complaining lot of all? Just enjoy your T's and company of friends..life is way too short.
I have intended to go for the past couple years and have not writen off going. If Ford can come in and indeed make this a world class event, all the better. This will serve to help in sparking a next generation of T'ers for the preservation of the car.
My contention is, is where was all the "sponsorship" when all the restorers before us were building their cars? When all the excellent parts vendors decided to risk investing "their" savings into such a limited field of sells? When these club members are unselfisly spending mulitudes of their own hours and dollars in reseach and development of ways and products to keep these old cars running. Again, where is the interest or sponsorship on Fords part to find the remaining T's and supporting their restoration?
But now in March 2008 Ford decides to become the proud sponsor of an event that has been building by unrelated club members for many many years? OK, let Ford Sponsor the event, but tell me *what did Ford do for them to feel they deserve the honor to be THE sponsor?* The true sponsor is the guys and gals who owns and keep these old cars running. If Ford wants to kick in some bucks to make this a world class event? Thats cool. Just don't forget to mention who gets the real credit for this 100 year event.
James? Thats great that Chevy and Dodge have been involved in rallies and shows. I love seeing the new Dodge truck at all rodeo's and I'm not a Mo-Par man. Its only good PR on their part. But in the last 100 years, how many times has Ford been involved in such show and rallies? Why now? And this is all about a company who just told the Black Mustang Club they can't use Fords name or product namesake. Even if the mustang club was doing a fund raising. I don't believe their club was going to cut into Ford business. Personally I would not be supprised that by this time next year the Black Mustang Club will be the Black Camero Club. What did Ford gain from that but fewer new mustangs being bought. Sorry, off subject.
Yes the club officers and all support (and spouses)deserve far more credit then any one of us could give possibly give them. My respect to them.
Ford has been sponsoring car shows for decades. Not just for Model T's, but for Model A, V8 club, Nifty Fifties, Galaxie Club of America, and many others. Ford has never NOT been a sponsor of big national car shows. They sponsor everything from a local parking lot show to regional shows to big international shows if the event is related to Ford products.
Sonsorship from Ford can range from them sending a pile of Motorcraft show goodie bags and Ford logo key rings to providing thousands of dollars in cash, free use of vehicles, TV and radio advertisements etc. It depends on what you negotiate, how important Ford considers your event to be, and how many people are likely to attend.
Over the years Ford has been there and has supported us. If you did not know that, it is because you were not there to know it. I've got Ford script key fobs from the MAFCA show in 1972, Cougar key fobs from the CCOA nationals in 1992.
We received a check from Ford Motor company for the 1994 Cougar Club of America show that paid for all the T shirts given to car show entrants. Another check from Ford paid for a hospitality room and banquet hall rental. They provided another check to pay for renting a bus to shuttle participants to Six Flags over Texas. Jim Bright, who at the time was regional promotions manager for Ford, also personally wrote articles that appeared in the Dallas Morning News and the Fort Worth Startlegram advertising the show again paid for by Ford. This was a show that had around 200 cars. Ford provided substantial benefits to every participant.
How come you guys can't understand how much of a good thing this is?
Steven, hold out for Tata stock. Ford stock is down around $5.00 where Tata is trading for around $18.00. When Tata's $2,500.00 car hits the market, I plan to become rich beyond my wildest dreams. I might even want to sponsor the 200 years T party.
This seems to be split between two threads now. How about we pick the one with the most relative title and stick to it instead of bouncing around?
Ford being there won't affect my decision to go. An answer to the question is all I'm asking for. What is Ford bringing to the table? If the answer is "something significant, but we've been sworn to secrecy" or "nothing", or "key fobs and ______", I don't care. I just want to know what the answer is!
Tyrone, Ford will never get another 100 year anniversary of the Model T. I can't help but think it is of some importance to them.
I would like to point out that the MTFCA is the club running this show. I and all the other members of the club voted and elected officers to run this club, and they are responsible for the show. They have written club bylaws that define what can and cannot be done with money from the show and sponsorship money. If you have questions about what they can and cannot do it is outlined here:
I did not vote for any body named Jim Sims or Seth or Tim or Tyrone to be independent auditors of our club. Does anybody have those guys named on their ballots?
Your question is insulting and out of line Jim. You said:
" Just for my information, in what way will Ford Motor Company sponsor this celebration? It is organized by, paid for by and completly ran by the individual Model T owners. Other than taking credit for our work are they donating a large financial backing or providing other services?"
In my opinion this is not public information. This is private club information that should be handled at the club level. You should contact one of the board of directors and they may or may not choose to respond on an official level privately to you.
I know if it was up to me there would be a response of "I'm sorry but we can't divulge that information".
Hey no problem Royce. I have cancelled my motel room. Good bye all. It has been fun, really. tyrone
Royce, you are probably correct in that this question should not have been asked and I have tried to apoligize for asking it. In the fact that Barbara posted her announcement on this forum, I saw no harm in asking what
Ford was doing. I did not think that it would insult or offend any members of either of the two clubs involved.
Your absolutely correct.
The answers to the asinine questions being asked by the self appointed vigilanty audit committee fall into the catagory of; it is none of their damned business. They continually stir the pot hoping to glean one thing they can criticise so they can run off in another direction asking more insipid questions. It is never ending.
I know for a fact that the MTFCA leadership planning for this event has been world class and that is evidenced by the mere fact that Ford even agreed to be part of it. I beleive every member of the MTFCA should be proud that Ford thought enough of what our leaders were doing and agreed join in and help.
Remember the problem with wrestling with pigs is, you soon find out YOU are just getting very dirty and THEY are loving it.
Ron the Coilman
Ron, I respectfully suggest your post was uncalled for. Please read my posts, and tell me what I have said or done to be called a vigilante? And a pig?
I rest my case.
This thread is a total waste of time and bandwidth.
Ron the Coilman
You may have rested your case, but you have just lost my respect, and a customer.
Oh well, you cannot please everyone all the time.
Ron the Coilman
Mine too, Ron. Name-calling isn't accomplishing anything except a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. More than once, you resort to that sort of post when no one that I see posting has said anything derogatory toward you, or anyone else on here. Many time's I have referred potential customers to you through conversations outside this forum, because I thought you were a decent man to deal with. Mr. Daw, Mr. Patrick, Mr. Williams, Mr. Ricks, Mr. Peterson have been very civil toward those of us unhappy with the situation, and have made very good points. Why are you so hostile toward those of us (potential customers?) who might not share your opinion? That is all this is, a difference of opinion.
I don't want to know what Ford is bringing...don't care. If it furthers the purpose of the club and T enthusiasts in general, I applaud the decision made by the club. I just don't want to see them take credit for something they haven't had a hand in, and that is the present existence of these cars and trucks. I learned a lot more from the civil responses here than your hateful one. I stated my thoughts and opinions for the purpose of discussion, not to dissuade others or be called names because I don't give a rip about a big corporation. Owning a T is not implied loyalty to the company. If they are so proud of the T, can you tell us something they have done to preserve them? Nope, you can't, but now they want to get involved with them, and present the appearance of having something to do with the present-day Model T. There would be nothing but pictures of them if not for the thousands of people (valuable club officers to be respectfully included) who have given countless hours and devoted their lives to preserving the cars that Ford cared nothing about once the warranty was out.
I guess, if I could see one thing from Ford that would make me respect them and recant all I've said, would be a simple public "thank you" to those past and present who have preserved the history and the cars without the support of Ford. Without those people, there would be no Centennial. The clubs, parts reproducers, service fellas like yourself, and thousands of owners and enthusiasts are the reason there is a Model T today, not Ford.
Maybe it's a waste of your time, and if thats the case you should (in your own words) "buzz off". The rest of us can still discuss this in a civil manner without your unnecessary potshots.
No grudges buddy, not on my side of the creek anyway. Just want you to know your comments were not appreciated or justifiable.
I sure can't see how it could be construed that Ford is not rewarding us for our efforts by sponsoring this show. They have in the past sponsored many shows.
In spite of Ford's current desperate financial state they have made a point of coming to us to offer what they can to make our party a better one. It seems they are supporting the Model T long after the warranty period has expired.
I understand that Royce, and believe me I don't disagree with you. In fact, your statement makes me see it in a different light. My opinions are always subject to change. Already with many of the civil posts on this and the other threads, my thoughts on the issue have been swayed. I applaud the work done by the club to make the Centennial the very best possible, and never intented for my comments to be taken as displeasure toward the club, officers, or any member.
You make a very good point in stating that their sponsorship should be seen as appreciation toward the T enthusiasts, and I appreciate that once again you made that point in a civil manner. It does change my opinion somewhat, and realize that I shouldn't immediately view any action or involvement by them as only self-serving. I'm still glad that most of us can debate differences of opinion without getting stupid about it. I realize too that their implied appreciation should be reciprocated, even if I am not a loyal customer.
Ray & Steven
You two might want to read my post above with a dictionary in hand. And try to understand the word "metaphor".
I am not going to post further on this ridiculous rant.
You can take your coils elsewhere, I don't give a rat's fanny.
Ron the Coilman
That is the first time that word has been used in this thread Ron, by you or anyone else. You said nothing about a metaphor earlier. Backpedaling are we?
I don't need a dictionary in hand to understand your vocabulary, sir.
Everyone needs to take a really deep breath and count to ten (at least). I have been on tours with both Ron and Steven. They're both great guys. Everyone in this thread needs to stop hammering each other.
If Ford is a sponsor, fine. If Ford weren't a sponsor, fine. If I get something in my event package that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten, fine. If I don't, fine. If I see some concrete benefit from Ford's sponsorship, fine. If I don't, but Jay, Barb and the MTFCA are aware of something Ford does that makes their lives easier, fine. That boils down to basically not really giving a rat's a** either way, I guess.
Could we all get back to celebrating 100 years of the model T? In the immortal words of Rodney King, can't we all just get along?
Dick (wondering why Model T people always seem to feel a need to bicker!)
I think it is because Model T owners are just very (CRANKY)
I agree. It seems for the most part they are a bunch of cackling old hens. Already set in there ways (which their way is the only way and yours is wrong).
Jim asked a honest question and has not got an answer yet. wiether he gets it on the forum or ask the club itself via email or a phone call. No question is asinine if you don't know the answer. If you don't have answer for the man I think you should keep your lip shut. If I don't know the answer I usally don't reply to a thread or post.
Our early V8 and Mustang club shows have been sponsord by Ford numerous times and our members knew what the contribution was it was no secret.
It really doens't matter to me, but dang guys come on. This thread makes everyone on it look like a bunch of grumpy old farts.
Jay, Barbara, MTFCA, and the Ford Motor Co. my hats off to you for this celebrating year of our beloved Model T.
John, we probably ARE a bunch of grumpy old farts. The trick is to try to hide the fact...
If you do not understand the use of the word Metaphor my other words will probably not give you the gist of what I wrote.
Ron the Coilman
hehehe...ok, Ron, you're entitled to your opinion. If you're trying to insult me, you gotta do better than that and I'd rather we take it to email than continue to look like a couple old grumpy farts on the forum. If you disagree with my opinion, you're always welcome to try to change it. I'll remain civil and respectful to you as long as you do the same.
Royce, If you are a paid member, then you, I, and the rest of us in the same category are this club. I think we have a right to ask what Ford brought to the table. They will undoubtedly be making money off us and this event. What are they offering in return? Simple question, still not answered by the people we elected to run things. If in fact it is a secret, then the response should have come through by now. Unless the BOD does not read the forum? Calling us auditors is a stretch. Someone asked a question and it should be answered. If not here, then in the VF next issue where members only can read about it. A simple "see the next VF" would have resolved the issue for all of us.
I wholeheartedly agree with Ron Patterson and the many others who support the actions of Jay and Barbara, the Board and Ford Motor Company's sponsorship. I cannot believe what I'm hearing from the naysayers. THANK YOU AGAIN TO Jay,Barbara, the MTFCA Board and especially to FORD MOTOR COMPANY. Your efforts are truly appreciated by the vast majority!!
I am a member of the MTFCA, the MTFCI, the HCCA, the CCOA and many local clubs across the country so I can get their neews letters.
I am a former member of the Pierce Arrow Society, the MAFCA, the AACA and the MCA among other car clubs.
The financial dealings of this club are disclosed in an appropriate manner - to club members. This is a public forum, open to anyone. It is not and should not be a place to be confrontational about financial matters that are the responsibility of our elected officials.
Barbara started this thread with the joyous news that we had sponsorship from the company that built our cars. What on earth could be wrong with that?
Hey folks it's your love for the Model T and your hobbie that brought this celebration about. Who cares what modern day Ford does...if anything they will bring a national if not world wide attention to the wonderful world of T's...consider Leno's latest contribution.
Just newbe thoughts,
Bob and the dawgs
I fail to see any negativity in asking the simple question of what FORD sponsorship actually means.
Will they simply take advantage of the gathering to showcase their products and services? will they provide some sort of logistical support? will they actively participate in the staffing? Frankly I don't care what support they provide. This entire event is just too rich for my financial condition even though I have family nearby and may well be in this beautiful area. I will not be attending though: I'm sure it will be my loss.
As usual, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about BUT, that's never stopped me before.
I suspect that "Title Sponsorship" means "Braging Rights", and they DO own the copyright to the "title"
F O R D.
Let's not get too self important here.
TRUE. This event is not a "FORD" event but anybody who owns a Model T will quickly notice that it has the word "Ford" stamped all over it.
TRUE. Any 100 year celebration put together BY Ford would be would be severely lacking without the input of "We" the dedicated Model T owners but "100 years of Ford" will be celebrated, (manipulated, advertised and otherwise "used") by the mega universal world conglomerate now known as Ford.
In my (not usually humble) opinion, the "trick" here is to see to it that there are little signs all over the place that state that all the beautifully preserved examples of THE MODEL T FORD are brought to you by the selfless dedicatation and sometimes super human efforts of the MTFCA and MTFCI, thus insuring OUR OWN "Bragging Rights".
Sadly, health problems, broken car problems and other "issues" will prevent me from being there
so it's up to the rest of you "Gear Heads" to carry the club banner.
Yes Royce, Barbara did start this thread. Less than one hour later Jim Sims asked a question that could have been answered by her with "Sorry, but we can't give you any details at this point in time." But she didn't. If she had, World War III would never have happened.
Jim's question was a good question and there was nothing negative about it. It deserved some kind of answer which it didn't get for days.
You are entitled to defend the decisions of the club's officers. You, just like the rest of us, are also entitled to ask questions.
In my opinion, Barbara should have never started a thread that she wasn't going to "tend to". She never "tended" to this one - she let you do it for her. Bad mistake, in my opinion.
HI, I am with the younger crowd of T owners and I have a few things to say. First I didn't post my real name because I didn't want anbody to show up at my door with a coil and some aligator clips to "teach me the ways of the model T"! Call me a chicken, That's Fine!
OK, I own a model T and three TT trucks and have been tossing around the idea of coming to the event. Are the prices too high? Well without a big sponsor, NO. With a Big Sponsor YESSSSSS! I think that alot of the guys are feeling like with Ford's sponsorship, the prices should go down. But if Ford isn't kicking in any Money, but instead going to provide alot more displays, attractions, etc, then the prices should remain the same. If there is more to do for the same price, then that is Great!
But if all they did was throw in some money and a few bags of junk, then pass the savings on to the people who are going to bring their cars.
I have been looking over the schedule of events for the week and to be completley honest, I can't really find alot of stuff other than the swap meet that would not make me YAWNNNNNNNN. Don't get me wrong, I love driving my T's and talking to people, but I think it was forgotten that alot of T owners aren't 80 and have alot of other interests. I am 34 and have a wife and 4 month old Baby and frankly would be bored to tears after the first day.
Now I know that everyone has a different idea of a good time and that is great, but I just don't see it. This trip would cost me around $3,000.00 which is a big chunk of change, atleast for me. I know that if I don't want to come, than don't come, but I feel that there are ALOT of T people that feel the same way! I would rather spend that money on another T.
As far as answering the questions, they SHOULD BE ANSWERED!!!!!! I am the president of our Church council and we have to make public all of our minutes of the meeting and fess up for our decisions as a council. This is no different than this "non profit" T club!
I like on this board that you can have your OWN opinion as long as it doesn't offend any of the T Gods on this board. I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that only one man can do coils, transmissions, motors, wheels, etc. and the rest of us are just a bunch of idiots!
GROW UP AND ACT LIKE ADULTS!!!!!! I can see it now with my son at the event, "it's Ok son, that just Ron and Ray duking it out over what color blue is in the Ford oval"!!!!!
If I offended anybody, than good! I am so tired of seeing people having to bow down to the T god's on this board.
OK, it's time for my morning diet pepsi! Yes, I don't like coffee either!
I hear you, Young Ter! Keep it up! You are just exactly what is needed for the hobby to survive. With a whole lot of luck and persistence, maybe you and others like you can run the "T Gods" off and make this a better place for all of us.
Thanks for your comments. Your anonymity is perfectly understood - by me anyway. Sure, it will ruffle the feathers of the "T Gods", which is great in my opinion.
I just spent about 20 minutes reading thru this entire thread and I can only draw one conclusion from the information contained here. Reading the thread was a complete waste of my time...
Bruce has answered the question in the "I apologize" thread. It seems to me that Barbara may be a bit too busy right now to follow the forum the way some of us do. In any case, it appears that Ford is supplying people, product and an undisclosed amount of money, and that MTFCA is grateful for their participation. My interpretation of Bruce's post, anyway.
This has gotten out of hand. I'm sure that the requested information will be provided to paying members in the official club publication. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I don't think it's worth fighting over.
Oh Tim how quickly you back down. So was that coil that they used on you set with a HCCT or strobospark or set by some idiot with an amp guage and a six volt battery? Either way I bet it hurt like heck! LOL
Well I aint commented on this subject yet.And probably dont need to.
But I will say it is a dang shame people cant disaggree and remain civil about it.
My first assumption was that since Ford got involved thier sponser ship would spell provideing some vehicals for tour escorting and supply hauling and perhaps a F550 superduty rollback or 2 to help transport members T's that happened to break down and so forth.
that is how other companys sponser race tracs and other places and events.Not all assets of a company are Cash.Not all sponserships are Cash.That is why the fact they got involved didnt bother me once i got to thinking about the big picture.There is logical concern that they would come in and overshadow,but it is apparent from what I understand of Bruce's reply on the other thread that is not going to be the case.It is obvious that Ford can afford the sponsership because of the royaltys they get from reproduction parts and the obviuous fact advertiseing can be written off on thier taxes.
It is my opionion that all here need to take a deep breath,and rest your minds a while and wait till facts are available for final analysis.
I aint sharp enough and quick enough on the tounge to be on a board of directors or to be involved in a organization other than pay dues and be happy.
But I would like to think that if there are sharp people out there that take a likeing to the T and it's preservation that are willing to serve to help run a organization to better the hobby and preservation of those cars,they wouldnt make a really dumb desicion.
I remember last year at a engine and tractor show in Dallas NC that Ford was 1 of the sponsers.This was the first year I had saw this there.I must say i missed the year befores.
They had a small booth over to the side,and had a F450 dually pickup and a King ranch f150 on display for folkes to look at.The showgrounds was full of Fords of all sizes and shapes belonging to particapants,some which may want to trade at some point.So Ford knew to put them selves in a postion folkes could browse around thier products without salesman pressure,which I dispise with a passion.
As Tim says above, this has gotten out of hand. The MTFCA did not grow to be the largest pre-1930 car club in the world by cheating anyone. We got there by providing more help, more history, more information on the MOdel T than any other organization in the hobby. As one of the six founders of the MTFCA I may be a bit sensitive when we get criticised but when someone suggests that we are trying to hide something or that we are somehow cheating them, I just shake my head.
Barbara and Jay have more than a full-time job running the club. The are also responsible for the Museum and in planning the Centennial. There are not many who would tackle any one of these jobs at any price, let alone the little the club can afford to pay them. There are not enough hours in the day for them to respond to every question that appears on this forum but to suggest they are hiding something is just not fair and just not true.
Theis web site is maintained at no cost (other than the internet rees) to the club and any part of it can be accessed and used by anyone, member or not.
I sometimes wonder just what those who criticize have ever done to help in the operation.
Fifty thousand years from now when this ole blue orb is a big ball of ice will anyone remember all this discourse?
Thanks Bruce, Jay and Barb for a job well done, from a 42 yr member of the MTFCA # 2088, We will see you in Ind. in July, and you can help me celebrate my birthday 7-23
Young T ERD, Stand up and sign your real name and let us know if your a member of this club or if your just interested in causing trouble. Not very becoming for the President of the church whatever you said you are.
It appears to me that the folks that resent (or at least are suspicious) of Ford's participation in our party (I am a paid member of the MTFCA) is rooted in something far deeper than this one event.
Restoring these old cars is a labor of love, and it shows in every one of our T's. Without hoping to ruffle any feathers, I perceive two things (Disclaimer: there are observations and should not be construed as approvals or condemnations - it may simply help us to understand where the comments are coming from)
1.) Some Model T owners are on fixed incomes and very frugal with their money (if we were all rich, maybe we'd collect Duesenbergs ), and they want to know how their fees are being affected by Ford's sponsorship (This is an obvious point).
2) That there is an animosity toward Ford Motor Company from folks that resent the fact that other that making original Ford drawings and documents available to us, they give us minimal support in the realm of helping us obtain replacement parts (which is not really their fault or obligation, please don't attack me on this point), but they actually go one step further and drive up the cost of by insisting on making a profit off of parts that not only do they not make, but do not take the risk in tooling or marketing. And so they ask, "why the sudden interest? We've been here for a long time and could have used some help!"
Now, I know that they are ENTITLED to make a profit off of their logo (that is the nature of the free market, and I understand this) - however, that puts the restorer in a tough spot, especially less wealthy people on a fixed income. He NEEDS to have the Ford logo on certain parts, or the restoration is not complete, so therefore he is required to spend $15 for a part that would normally cost only $7. Do you see what I mean? This circumstance is ripe for resentment.
As for some of us losing our cool, that is the unfortunate nature of an on-line forum. If we were all together in a room somewhere, I am convinced that arguments like these would be concluded with a round of "barley sodas" (to quote brother Seth) because that is the type of people Model T owners are.
I applaud all of our leadership team for the untold hours they have contributed to this great event, and although I can't apologise for other people's behavior, I can say I'm sorry that you all had to be put through such an ordeal.
I apologise for my wordiness.
Bob, you said what I wanted to say, completely, much better than I did. I just hope your comments aren't taken out of context as mine appear to have been.
So much has been said about us who are not members of the precious MTFCA, yet those who comment are maybe not aware that we MTFCI members were given the impression in the Times that we were invited to this party too. I must assume now this is not the case and apologize for speaking out of turn as an outsider, even though my comments had nothing to do with condemning the actions of either club or any member. I simply typed too much to say exactly what you said in fewer words.
Oh, and I don't see comments between Ron and I as "duking it out" as was posted previously. It's sad that some individuals cannot understand that words exchanged on a public forum aren't necessarily meant to be hostile. Ron and I aren't going out back and settle our differences by beatin the hell out of each other. We simply don't agree on some subjects, plainly, but he is no enemy of mine and I hope he doesn't see me as one. We are both just equally headstrong, and both of us have every right to disagree. As Bob stated, if Ron and I were in the same room, I would not have stopped smiling and would gladly buy the man one or seven "barley sodas" as we discussed the subject. Just because we all have T's as a common interest, we are all individuals with vastly different views and opinions on other varied subjects, and will at times bump heads with those opinions. Nature of the beast, folks. Stop reading too much into this thing...it's a forum.
Ray,I'm sorry you're not coming. I was looking forward to meeting you. I don't think the invitations are for any one group,all are welcome. Don't play that MTFCI card.That is a cop out.You have been a regular poster here for some time and Yet I don't see you posting on the MTFCI site??? If you are so loyal,why not? I hold dual membership in both clubs and I have never been to a National tour,so I'm looking forward to my first one. it will be nice to meet some old friends and make some new ones. Wishing you the best in your endevors.
I paid my fee and plan on going and enjoying myself and look at all the Ts and i really don't care if Ford is a sponsor or not,its for all of us.
Ray, I belong to both clubs and read both forums. My sometimes patchy memory seems to recall that there was quite some discussion over there revolving around the fact that MTFCI was invited to participate from the beginning, but for some reason the MTFCI board failed to act on the invitation for quite some time. MTFCI is now participating (they're running the car show and judging, I believe), but they came to the table pretty late.
I like that young T ER!!!! well said. And where is Royce???? I see he hasn't chimed back in on this thread......
No Jack...again too much is assumed! I'm not going, that is true. However, that decision isn't based on anything said on this forum. It is due to the fact that I have 5 other people here that could care less about being there, Model T's, or anything else that I am interested in. If I were to go, I'd be doing so by myself. My wife and kids would rather be somewhere that they can have fun and be included in the activities. Our TT is too slow for a tour so we're left out in that regard, not to mention the T party isn't geared toward entertaining children (understandably). For what the trip would cost me, I can go all summer to every local car show within a 50 mile radius and have many more weekends of fun and fellowship with other enthusiasts. If I am going to spend $2K, I'd prefer to do it with the whole family.
I don't post on the MTFCI forum for one reason...I prefer the easier navigation and format of this forum. Oh, and I can't forget that I kinda like you fellas!
Dual membership? Really just don't see the need for it in my case. In fact, the only benefit I've ever received from being a member of any "big" club is a quality magazine every couple months. Not complaining, it's no ones fault but my own that I choose to live in a part of the country isolated and distant from large metro areas where more T owners live in closer proximity to each other. With that also comes a flood of soccer moms on the road with "I'm the center of the universe" mentality and "look at me" homes crowded into subdivisions with nosey neighbors and homeowner's councils intent on telling me what I can and can't do. Not my kind of people. I like to see the club memberships grow, but to be a member of more than one big one is, again in my case, redundant. I'm a member of the MTFCI and the Tennessee T's, a big'un and a little'un, and that suffices in my case for now.
I ain't copping out Jack. Just spread too thin
Phew---I can't believe it, if I didn't know better I would think I'm reading postings by some olds broads going through menopause or younger ones with pms. Always thought only the women had those problems, obviously it effects males also. Go see your Doctor they have prescriptions to help you cope with these frustrating problems
I'm a dues paying member of both Clubs, if I didn't care for the way the officers were performing I would run for an office, otherwise I will accept their decisions as proper and above reproach for the good of all members
I often wonder while reading certain threads, how much time is consumed off forum by the elected listening to some of mediocre little things that hurt someone's feelings or upset them. I bet there is a lot of time wasted
Oh yes I might mention for those posting without a name, diapers and baby formula is available as apparently you haven't reached the maturity of at least pms
Wow...Coolest auto event of the last 50 years, and a couple of whiners want to rain on everyone's parade. Don't like the way elected club officials are organizing this, then vote for someone else in the next election. For now, please give it a rest. I'm pumped up over attending this show, and frankly a little pissed that a couple of nobody's are trying to pop my balloon here. I've enjoyed your postings in the past, and thought it would be a great opportunity meeting you in person...my bad. As for you nosepickers who won't sign your names...very happy that you will not attend. This event and this hobby are clearly out of your league.
Respectfully, Scott, why would something so small and meaningless as not sharing the same opinion as you prompt you to no longer want to associate with them (us?)?
How will we know if the people who don't sign their names will be there? We don't know who they are because they didn't sign their names.....
Ahhh, did I hit a nerve with Tim??? Doesn't matter to me, everyone has their own opinion, yes even me. No matter what you want me to say, you can't make me say it, doesn't that just frost your feathers!
Well I am going to enjoy some more model T's. Let's see where is that small block and the sawzall!
Equally Respectfully...You would I'm sure agree that this stuff is neither small nor meaningless to the people working overtime to make this event happen. Some of the offended have turned this tremendous amount of earnest effort into a snotty personal issue. I don't care for it, and I'm annoyed that some who make no effort to get down in the trenches, want to throw stones at others who have clearly made major personal sacrifices to make this all come together. I've been an event supporter and enjoyed the same thanklessness I see brewing here. Ask these event supporters if they'd put up with this nonsense and then sign up next time. I read MTFCA posts and rightly or wrongly instill a lot of character in the people behind them. When I see a line that figuratively says "I'm gunna take my ball and go home", I say "See Ya". My sincere apologies that my comments may have offended you personally Ray. Whether I agree with you ar not, you impress me as a rational person who is consciencious about the impact of what you post here. You Sir, I would certainly regret not having the opportunity to meet in person.
No sir, Scott! No offense taken and please make no apologies to me. You are justified in your statements. I feel the same as far as the stone-throwing and hostility toward the organizers. There is no amount of thanks too great for those who have given their time and effort to making the Centennial what I'm sure it will be. I can't even put a good birthday party for a 5-year-old together, so I'm the last person on this forum with any right (or intention) to criticize the efforts of those folks!
Thanks for expounding, and I totally understand your position and agree wholeheartedly. Hope to meet you someday as well, as it will be an honor.