I apoligize

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: I apoligize
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:15 am:

I did not mean to start a debate when I asked the simple question about the Ford Motor Co. sponsoring the T centennial. I was just looking for a simple answer. If this question can not or will not be answered in simple terms please forget that I asked it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 11:00 am:

No Jim, it is a good thing you asked your question. It is good you had the foresight and the balls to ask the question. As you can see by the threads there is great debate on this subject and yes even some whinning and crying. Your question is a very good question that needed to be asked. Carry on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 12:59 pm:

I don't understand why ,if this is an issue with you,you don't pick up the phone and call Barbara or Jay and ask? It would stop all this P&Ming and settle it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stauffacher on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 01:18 pm:

It amuses me just how much some people like to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Great job Jay and Barb! This is the kind of national attention that can only help the club and hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 02:53 pm:

Jim,

It is probably not a good idea for any of the club directors to answer you in public because it will simply be misunderstood and picked apart by people like you who just flat don't understand the magnitude of what is happening this summer, how much it really costs, and how Ford has consistently supported the car hobby for the past several decades.

Please understand that the majority of T owners are not confused by Ford being a sponsor. We know that we are benefiting from Ford's participation. We trust the leaders in the club to do what is best for the group.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 03:04 pm:

I'll bite, what is the gift that the horse is bringing? The rates were set before any sponsors were included. Therefore WE are paying for it, unless there will be partial refunds now because Ford is picking up the tab? We're talking about a multi-billion dollar company - they get free advertising from this, and the claim that they helped put make this event happen. So what exactly are they doing? In my mind, Ford should be paying us to display our cars under that big blue oval.

I'm not trying to start a war here, I just want a simple answer. I paid $350 just so I can drive onto the fairgrounds with my family as participants, and $70 for a swap space to park on for three days and promote my services. Add in 4-5 nights at campgrounds and 2,000 miles worth of gas to get there and home again. It ain't cheap. It may be less than the cost of a tour, but tours are not funded by huge corporate sponsors like this event is now.

The question has been asked several times, here it is again. What is Ford's contribution as a sponsor of this event? Is there a written agreement? I'd like to see it. I'm sure there is some wonderful agreement between the BOD and Ford that will make us all smile, but so far I see the question going unanswered and that fact is casting a negative light on the arrangement -whatever it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 03:11 pm:

Good post Royce, This event is not to be mistaken for a 50 car tour. Lots is going into this . Barbara , Jay and Scores of Other helpers deserve our Thanks for their Work over many months. Too bad this event fell on an election year when skepticism is being fueled by the politicians. Great having anything that Ford is or will be offering. This will be a World Class Event.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 03:23 pm:

I agree with Tim! This wonderful event, chance of a lifetime is so expensive, it has excluded me, and many people like me from being able to afford it. Now that FORD has become a sponsor, everything has changed? NOPE! Still can't afford it!

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 03:36 pm:

As a former MTFCA President and Director, I'm suprised with the concern over Ford's sponsorship. I think the sponsorship is a positive thing, and more than likely will enhance the event. If there is concern as to where the any money is going, the MTFCA Board has a Tour Policy that spells out the accountability procedure of all funds earned and disbursed from the tour. National tours are not profit making events, and following the tour, a detailed accounting statement must be submitted to the board, through the MTFCA tour chairman (Russ Grunwald) and approved by the board. All tour funds are accounted for in this statement.

All this being said, I have the utmost confidence in Jay, Barbara and all the others who are making this event possible. They have done, and are doing a great job! My wife and I are driving our Model T from Flagstaff, AZ to Centerville, IN for the centennial and are looking forward to seeing many of you. Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven G. Williams on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 06:39 pm:

sigh... Jim, you asked a legitimate question. And now folks are starting to attack those of us who just want a simple answer.

I have great confidence and respect for the officers of our club. They have put untold hours of work into making this Centennial Party happen, and they did it without any help from Ford at the beginning. I signed up early, because I don't want to miss it. I started saving, because this is the most expensive trip I have taken in many years.

Granted, some people are, to quote one above, P&M ing about Ford's sponsorship. But most of us aren't. We're simply wondering what Ford is bringing to the table. And in spite of several gracious requests for information, none, absolutely none, has been forthcoming from those in the know. Not even "Things are still in the works, and we are not at liberty to share anything at this time. However, we will apprise the membership at ....(fill in the date) what is afoot."

Like Russ and others, I am glad Ford is a sponsor. I think they'll bring some additional credence to the event with their national pull, that might not otherwise be possible.

But I don't think it is asking too much, for information to be shared with the membership from the officers. By the silence of those in the know, they are simply fostering an ever-increasing rancorous discussion on this forum. This is the second thread to address this concern, and it is still being ignored by those who know. Why? Personally I have made several suggestions how they can address the issue to maintain confidentiality, if such is the problem. But now, I really don't know, nor do I understand, what the problem is, that information is not forthcoming. I'm puzzled, and disappointed. And I'm sad that there is now, by some posts above, a new level of rancor introduced into the discussion related to the original question - What is Ford bringing to the table?
Regards,
Steven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 07:49 pm:

Steven,

What you ask for is an open forum on whether our elected officers are doing their jobs so that you and others can nit pick their every action.

It's not going to happen.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 08:40 pm:

Honestly, my decision to go or not go was not decided by the price, distance, or Ford's involvement. My decision was due to the fact that I share my home and finances with five other individuals who could care less about the Centennial, the clubs, or Ford. If I were to go, I would going by myself. I'd much rather spend that amount of money doing something that all my family would enjoy.

I am a member of the MTFCI, so the officers of the MTFCA are no one to me other than highly respected members of the Model T community, so I don't intend to field questions for them or complain about a decision made in what appears to be a positive one for the club. I too applaud them in what they have accomplished. Nit-picking? Not here. Maybe it appears that way but I never intended it to be. You fellas' club officers made a decision that they thought was in the best interest of everyone involved, which is what they were elected to do. I hope it works out for the best, for the clubs AND Ford.

I agree with you Royce that the forum is no place for disclosing details on the agreement. What Ford can do for the public image of Model T (and all old car) enthusiasts is immeasurable, if they'll do it in a way where credit is given where due and not try to take credit for something that they are not responsible for. They didn't step up and stop the scrap drives that destroyed so much irreplaceable history, they didn't stuff a sock in Ladybird Johnson's mouth when she started her "Keep America Beautiful" campaign to get rid of every remnant of old cars in the country. It was the car guys who refused to let the T die. If they give credit to those past and present, I will applaud them :-)

That is my only issue with the whole situation, and can't see where that thinking is either wrong or right. It's just a subjective opinion of a fella who would like to see more support from those with the necessary resources and influence to keep our cars running and legally resgistered.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 08:55 pm:

Royce is "right on." If some of the detractors would run for the board of directors I might be more inclined to hear them out, but it seems a little out of order to keep this negativity going.

What has the average MTFCA member including this "old Model T man" done so that he can be offended by decisions made by those we elected , decisions that they feel are in the best interest of its membership and their tremendous undertaking to promote the Model T.
Coilman is right by saying you can't please everybody.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 09:05 pm:

Personal attacks won't please anyone, and he of all people should know that :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy C. McConnell on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 09:29 pm:

HEY, did ya hear...Ford is helping sponsor the Model T celebration. Really?! that's fantastic what are they doing? HUH I don't know...maybe they are helping with advertising or something like that know body really said or seems to know they just announced they were title sponcers that's all....hang on let me ask someone


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy C. McConnell on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:16 pm:

On March 5th at 541 pm Barbara Klehfoth posted the following on a PUBLIC FORUM...

The MTFCA is pleased to announce that Ford Motor Company and the Ford Fund are the title sponsors of the Centennial T Party scheduled for July 21-26, 2008 in Richmond/Centerville, Indiana.

The link to their press release is:

http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases

Now Jim asked as did several of us what they (FORD) is doing? We didn't complain about the cost of the event we didn't complain about the big corporation sticking us in the back and taking all the credit we didn't belittle the Club Officers or say that they went behind our backs and did a bad thing. We just asked Barbara to expand on the announcement and offer an insite to what Ford will be doing to help make the 100 year anniversary show that much better. Maybe if someone could tell us we'd see more posts that say THANKS FORD for helping us make our show that much better for everyone attending. Instead we have Royce, Ray and Ron stirring the pot and getting everyone in an uproar of such a simple question. They do that well....So, Barbara can you tell us because THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO ARE HAPPY that Ford wants to help. We'd just like to know how.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce McCalley on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:33 pm:

Ford is to have a large display area with some of their products, plus a media center which could give us world-wide coverage, and other support.
I can't believe all the negative comments on Ford's being interested in supporting the celebration. The way some of you talk you'd think we had invited Adolph Hitler. We are very pleased to have the support of the Ford Motor Company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:42 pm:

Thank you, Bruce.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:46 pm:

No negative comments here, just give us an answer if you know. I hope part of the deal was that Ford pays the MTFCA $1million. I don't want any of it, but money would help continue the hobby. I just want to know what they are offering us in return for us allowing them to be included in this. Having a display area with their products does not help the Model T group, unless it's new Model T parts? World wide coverage is great news for me and the other vendors, but what about the regular T guy going just to be there? Can you elaborate on "other support"? Is it a secret?

Warren, if I'm a "detractor", nominate me for the BOD. I'd be happy to serve, I just have no idea how to run, you can be my campaign manager if you want to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy C. McConnell on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:46 pm:

Yes, Thank You Bruce, sounds great I'm looking forward to it...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:52 pm:

you might re-read your original post Andy before you start throwing stones. Sorry that you think I was trying to stir anything. You posted a question and opinion, I posted that I don't care and why I feel that way. Since when are we not allowed to make a comment for the sake of voicing opinion, open to discussion and subject to change? What if I had said "Jim asked a simple question, but instead Andy wants to be a smart*ss"? (not that I thought that about your "humor", just again making a point for the sake of discussion). Not my intention to get sideways with anyone, but some seem to want to start throwing personal attacks anytime another member shares a different opinion on matters that are subjective. There is no right or wrong opinion in this matter, just varying opinions that we all should be allowed to comment on without being called out by name and accused of deviousness. We all look like idiots collectively when the name-calling and personal attacks start. I've read (as most others have) all civil posts and opinions and took them to heart, not calling out anyone or directing negative remarks toward anyone personally (until I reciprocated one). At least not that I'm aware of...if I did you are welcome to point it out and I'll be glad to apologize to all involved.

Again, sorry if you have a problem. Have fun at the Centennial.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 11:06 pm:

THANK YOU BRUCE!!! You have basically answered my question.I wish this answer could have came sooner and avoided all this misunderstanding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 11:07 pm:

Bruce, I don't think Hitler can make it. Besides, he'd be more appropriate at a Volkswagen celebration... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven G. Williams on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 11:31 pm:

No Royce, that is not what I am asking for. I cannot speak for anyone else on this forum other than myself. All I have ever asked for is a report about Ford's involvment, even if the report is that "we'll tell you later." I am amazed at the rancor and personal attacks toward some of us who simply are excited at the news, and are curious about what it means. And am further amazed that, since the question was first asked sometime earlier Wednesday, Bruce is the only one who has specifically addressed the question, and he did it at 9:30 tonight.

Bruce, thank you for your information. That is a big help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 12:18 am:

Steven,

You asked "What is Ford bringing to the table". I interpreted that as you asking how much financial compensation the club receives for granting Ford the right to display on the grounds.

I maintain that it is not your right to instantly have answers from the club about such matters. I also maintain that it is the right of the officers to conduct club business on behalf of its members as stated in the bylaws without undue interference from non - board members.

I maintain that it is improper for the club to post financial details on an internet forum open to the public.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Gump on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 01:14 am:

You complainers are just angry over the fact that Ford will no longer sell you a car under 1000 dollars...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy C. McConnell on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 01:21 am:

Geez Royce give it a rest. We didn't ask for financial accountibility from the board about anything. Barbara posted on a PUBLIC FORUM that Ford was going to be a title sponsor. and someone in return asked what Ford was going to do then. They didn't ask for specific dollar amounts. And we DO have the right as dues paying members to ask anything we want of the board and their actions. After all, our money supports the club and helps keep it running and we've intrusted them to spend it wisely on our behalf. It was a choice few who some how always "read between the lines" and got off on their own tanget that got this whole subject blown out of the ball park. Bruce answered our question tonight on the PUBLIC FORUM and didn't have to devulge any finanical secrets.Those of us who asked the question are satisfied with his answer. Quit beating the horse its dead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By EDWARD R LEVY on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 02:49 am:

I would thoughtfully & honestly suggest that that any club member who finds dissatisfaction with the way things are done take the well adverstised option of running for his/her local chapter offices or the national offices. There is an old axiom that unfortunatly is all to often true "no good deed goes unpunished"
Edward R. Levy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 03:29 am:

Hey folks it's your love for the Model T and your hobbie that brought this celebration about. Who cares what modern day Ford does...if anything they will bring national if not world wide attention to the wonderful world of T's...consider Leno's latest contribution.Thought I'd post this in this thread too.
Just newbe thoughts,
Bob and the dawgs


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce McCalley on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:33 am:

Apparently some of you seem to think that the MTFCA is giving Ford space in the celebration just to have them participate. I can assure you that we did not give Ford anything but that they are the ones doing the giving. Not only are they bringing a good deal of product and personnel but they are also helping monitarily. For obvious (I hope to you) reasons we cannot disclose the details of their contributions but iven if was just ten dollars they would be most welcome.
Furthermore, the celebration is not financed by dues-paying members. It is financed by entry fees from those who choose to participate. While the club did put up the initial money to "get the ball rolling" the celebration is managed just like any major Model T tour or event, with separate financial records from those of the club.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Sizemore on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:42 am:

Amen. Thank you Bruce.
Question answered!!! Lets move on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 10:42 am:

Perfect answer Bruce. Case closed!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Peterson on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:12 am:

Ok if they are bring stuff to the meet, does it meet the pre 45 requirements?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By middle aged T ER on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 02:47 pm:

Bruce, are you saying NO dues paying members will be coming to the celebration of the Model T??? My, who will be there then??? No wonder you had to charge so much.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 03:42 pm:

Oh, for the love o' Pete...

We're already getting the potatoes. Anything Ford brings is gravy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce McCalley on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 03:47 pm:

I said the event was not financed by dues-paying members. Obviously dues-paying members who attend the event will be helping for it. Its the club dues money that is not being tapped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 05:42 pm:

Bruce,

If you give weasels a taste of meat they keep on tearing at your flesh until you don't have any more meat to give. There is no satisfying people who don't understand the planning, the hard work or the cost of an event of this scope.

Those who are too small to post their name while posting insults should be banned from the group.

There is no answer that will make these people happy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel (Indiana Trucks) on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:27 pm:

I have stayed out of this till now but wanted to say thank you Bruce for putting an end to this thread.

Now lets all go back to playing with our cars cause spring is on its way!

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 10:05 pm:

I'm all for it Bob! Wish I'd never added my 2 (and unintended fuel to the fire!). Sometimes, I guess opinions are better kept to oneself :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By an offended weasel on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:11 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 12:19 am:


Use ye name,be a man,not a weasel.


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