1/2" x 22 TPI Antique Die or Tap - non T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: 1/2" x 22 TPI Antique Die or Tap - non T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 03:36 pm:

Hi Guys,

I am rebuilding a mechanical oiler and discovered that it has obsolete 1/2" x 22 threads (not 1/2" x 20 or 24).

Is there anyone who will let me borrow a tap or die of this size for a week? If I borrow a die (preferred), it will be to make a steel threaded rod that I can use to reform brass threads in a 1/2" x 20 nut. If it is a tap, I'll re-cut the brass threads.

Of course, I'll pay shipping.

Regards, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 04:10 pm:

Roland,

What type and year of mechanical oiler and what does it fit. If we know that, it may be easier to track down something that works. You may want to check with other folks that have a similar oiler and find out where they obtained the tap/die, thread file, and/or spare parts. I was surprised McCaster Carr did not have a thread file to fit the 22 TPI and checking Google -- nothing popped up that looked helpful either.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 04:19 pm:

Hi Hap, ... Thanks for the reply.

I have been looking in all of the usual places and have quotes of $100 to $150 to custom re-make this old size !!

It is definately a non-current size.

A thread file will not work since I need to modify a 1/2" x 20 flare-nut.

The "Precision Automatic Co." mechanical oiler goes to my non-running 1910 Rambler which has had pieces lost over the years.

Regards, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 04:40 pm:

Draw up what you need and find someone with a lathe (there are several other forum members with one). A piece of hex stock and a half-hour on the lathe and you'll have whatever threads you need. Changing a flare nut from 20 to 22 TPI is lookinng for problems IMO. I'd offer to do it for you, but I'm swamped as it is and behind as far as lathing.
Respectfully
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 05:17 pm:

Hi Ray, ... Thanks for the reply.

Good idea about the lathe, I'll check if they can do 22 TPI.

What could be the trouble with changing from 20 to 22 TPI?

There is no oil pressure in the flare-nut connection; it just needs to be tight enough not to leak.

Am I missing something?

Regards, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 05:53 pm:

Roland, a lathe can cut any pitch of thread. They aren't limited, except in the case of metric or some fractional pitches (say 20.25 TPI) if the gearing won't support that or the operator isn't knowledgable enough.

Modifying the pitch wouldn't be disastrous, just that there would be a pattern of threads thinning down to nothing and coming back. Probably wouldn't hurt a thing in your case. Sorry to imply otherwise.

What size wrench fits your exisiting nut? If I have some hex stock to work, or something else that can be used to make it, I'll see about giving it a shot. I hate to see a fellow T'er in a dilemma that I can solve :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 06:11 pm:

Roland, one more thing, the part your working on- is it steel or brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 06:32 pm:

Roland,

If you do not have any better responses (---. Hi, I happen to have serveral 22 tpi flare nuts for free that fit your oiler etc. ....) then I think Ray recommendations makes a lot of sense. I agree with Ray that modifying an existing 20 TPI to a 22 TPI would not be my first choice. Several of our Early Ford Registry members have had different nuts etc. made up – and it has worked well for them.

Additionally -- you mentioned flare nuts. But many of the early cars used a compression fitting on a felt piece-- similar to the Model T gas line (see Lang’s gas feed pipe pack nut #2910 (it should be 1/2 by 18 tpi and the gas feed pipe felt #2913). Drawing up a sketch of what you really are looking for might make it easier for others to say “try so – and – so” they might have that. Have you checked with any other early Rambler Owners? If not you might want to locate a few through the HCCA, AACA, etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By cliff on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 07:53 pm:

Hi Roland
1/2"x 22 is available in the UK
Taps are$6 dies are $16 from
http://www.tracytools.com/
Good luck
Cliff


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 08:12 pm:

Hi Roland,
I may have a tap and possibly a die.I'll look on Monday when I go to work.
I work with many odd threads in and out of the hobby.I may be able to help you make a part from scratch.Please send me any photos or letters to my email address and I can help you possibly.
My 1905 Queen has mostly peculiar threads,1/2"-12 being the one I had to use the most.This car was made in the USA as well.I had re-make all my nuts and bolts from scratch.
I've been a licenced tool and die machinist for 22 years.
I'm not looking to solicit work from the entire universe.But I am willing to help out a fellow car enthusiast in a pinch.
I can make parts to fit original threads depending of course on the nature of the part.
I'm in Canada though.
Cheers,
Darren


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:58 pm:

Sounds like you need a new nut. I'm betting someone here can make a new nut faster than you can find/make a 1/2-22 tap. And a heck of a lot cheaper too. I don't have hex stock that large in brass or I'd offer. Surely someone here or on the Home Shop Machinist Board ( http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=3 ) would be willing to help out and just make a new nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 01:15 am:

Wow, ... Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow afternoon so you can better see what I need.

Both male and female parts are brass. The flare nut is for 5/16" tubing.

Hap, I have a requests into HCCA and AACA. Best response has been MTFCA, YEAH, so far.

Cliff, Thanks for that Tracy Tools link; they list the 1/2 x 22 size as $13 tap & $16 die, plus shipping - a definite possibility.

Darren, A die would be best. The tap needs to be a bottoming tap.

Thanks, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 09:30 am:

I believe the 1/2-22 thread may be a Whitworth thread. 1/2-12 is definetly a Whitworth size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 12:27 am:

Hi Jerry,

It is not a normal British size according to this site:
http://www.newmantools.com/taps/tapsbritish.htm

Regards, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 06:21 pm:

The 1/2"-22 I believe is an NEF thread.Many of these were used around the turn of the century.1/2"-24 is also an NEF thread as well.
If you have the 1941, 8th edition Machinist's Handbook, this info is there along with many other long forgotten threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 07:04 pm:

Here are my belated photos of the Rambler's Mechanical Engine Oiler:

1
This shows the complete oiler, except for the mechanical drive shaft which is a round spring-belt drive, driven off the cam-shaft.

The adjustment is through the 5 small square headed rods sticking up; adjusted to get 3 drops per feed for all 5 feeds.

This is make-up oil and not under pressure.

The window at the back of the picture is to allow you to see the oil feed drips when you move the right hand-lever toward the rear, otherwise it feeds into tubing to the engine.

2
Showing the backside of the viewing area with the brass feed line connections; these are the 1/2" x 22 TPI fittings.

You can see an original steel flare fitting on the far thread and a modern 1/2" x 20 nut partly on the next thread; this is the nut that I need to "reform" into 22 TPI.

The closest thread shows the flare fitting end.

I will probably use 5 of the modern brass flare long nuts instead of the short one shown.

Regards, Roland


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roland Palmatier -- Durham, NH on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 02:49 pm:

Hi All, ... Just thought I would close out this thread by telling you all (THANKS CLIFF) about TRACY TOOLS LTD.; just reporting good service when due.

Tracy carries all sorts of special taps and dies at very reasonable costs; compared to my other five quotes.

For instance a 1/2" x 22 die was 8 British Pounds and a (non-listed size was in stock) 5/8" x 36 tap was 15 British Pounds; quick shipping for both was 6 BP. ... Yes, it is $2 for each BP.

Easily charged to a credit card via e-mail. Check them out at http://www.tracytools.com/

If you have any interest, e-mail, the very responsive, Russell at Tracy Tools Limited info@tracytools.com.

As I found out they have special sizes in stock that are not listed.

Thanks to all for Helping

Regards, Roland


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