Double stacked magneto

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Double stacked magneto
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 09:45 am:

What were these used for? What years and why? Can they be used for any others?

Thanks, Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 10:19 am:

Tim
This chart gives you the details of the evolution of the Model T magneto.
Magneto Evolution
The early versions before 1915 were associated with production issues, reduced cost AND ignition operational problems with the early coils/magneto.
The versions 1915-1917 were for extra magneto power associated with magneto headlamps.
I am not exactly sure why the change from 1/4 to 3/16 width filed windings, but it must have something to do with a perceived need for additional power.
Generally you need to use a particular field ring with its matching width magnets with the exception of the 1/4 and 3/16 field winding versions.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 10:22 am:

Tim
I forgot to mention there is no advantage to selecting one particular type over another.
The Model T magneto is capable of a whooping 200 watts of power which is far in excess of that needed to satisfactorily operate the ignition coils.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 12:13 pm:

Ron,
That's a great chart! I've saved it in my "T Tech" file, THANKS!
T'
David D.
PS I suppose if I look around my T library, I'll find it in one of the books already???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:08 pm:

David
I must give credit where credit is due. That chart was researched and prepared by Buzz Pound and used in a technical article he published in 2005.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 05:55 pm:

Ron,
Thank you very much! That is a great chart, and great information.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 10:45 pm:

Tim & Dave
I carefully studied Buzzs' chart trying to think in a third dimension about other Model T car changes going on during these time frames and how they may have impacted magneto modifications.
Here are my observations:
The problems with early Model T coils are well known. I beleive the change to 1 3/4 X 3/4 inch coil poles, 2 1/8 inch magnet pole and 3/4 inch magnets was probably the final resolution to the problems of discontinuance of the magneto output waveform which caused the "notchy" nature of the spark lever controll AND attempts to resolve problems with adjustment caused by the point design of the early Kingston, Jacobs & Brandow and Heinze coils before the introduction of the KW Williams designed ignition coil that we know today.
Ford probably continued to use the double stack field coil to the end of 1917 because of a perceived need for the magneto powered headlights?
I suspect the subsequent changes to the field coil (only) were most likely cost reductions. Changing from double stack to single stack was a major cost reduction in both time and material costs. The change from 1/4 to 3/16 field coils was yet another reduction in material costs.
The more I look at Buzzs' chart the more I think I understand what was happening. Others may have information, see more in this chart and should chime in here with their views.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth H. Todd on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 10:51 am:

Ron, do you know the thickness of the copper in the 1/4" and 3/16" windings?
Are they both the same?
What size wire gauge would they equate to?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 12:12 pm:

Ken
Sorry, I do not have the Ford prints and record of changes for the copper used in the Field windings. Randall Anderson may know.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 12:26 pm:

The copper thickness was the same for all of the single-stacked units, and measures out at just about 0.018". The copper used in the double stacked oval windings, late 14-17, was a bit heavier--something like 0.025"-- I don't remember the exact measurement.

Copper used on the first Ts, those with 1/2" magnets, was 3/8" wide. Ford quickly made the magnets thicker (9/16" and reduced the width of the copper ribbon to 1/4", where it remained until some time in the early '20s.


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