Removing hogshead from 26 Touring - engine in car

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Removing hogshead from 26 Touring - engine in car
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 01:32 am:

My starter jammed recently and this morning I removed it from the car, only to find the internally-threaded collar pined onto the starter end of the bendix was MIA, presumeably MIT (missing in transmission).

I've never removed a hogshead in the car, but it looked like a reasonable approach, albeit a little tight.

Now I've the darn thing unbolted, up about an inch, and unwilling to go any further... the firewall is in the way, despite apparently having an accomodating cut out.

Clearly I'm missing something here. Can one of you many folks smarter than me please give some guidance?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 06:15 am:

Chris, Have you taken the nuts, washers and springs off the pedal shafts so that the hogs head is free of the transmission bands?.....Michael Pawelek


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 08:16 am:

You don't have to fully remove the nuts, washers and springs but at least back off the adjustments. When the hogshead does come off the bands will snap open but the nuts washers and springs will still be on the pedals. You could do it either way but by loosening only you remove the risk of dropping one of these items.

I believe there are slight differences in exhaust manifolds as sometimes I can install a hogshead with the manifold in place and sometimes I can't. Either way, you will at the least have to loosen the pack nut on the exhaust pipe and remove the pipe (out of the way, no need to remove it from the muffler).

Also, loosen the two lower bolts at the ball cap attachment. You can often slide the ball cap back slightly which helps to clear the exhaust manifold. I have taken a 26-27 hogshead off twice in the car so it can be done.

Lastly, practice every cuss word you know and make up some new ones. It doesn't help much but it sure seems as if it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 08:40 am:

Good morning, and thanks for the replies.

Michael - not removed but loosened, and no longer an issue.

Gary - exhaust pipe is out of the way and the ball cap fasteners are all removed. I don't think the manifold is fouling, but will double check. It was encouraging to hear that you've done this task successfully.

I'll go practice my cussing now...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 09:45 am:

Let me expand on "I've done it". I have done it on a 26 touring car (27 touring would be the same). I can't attest to a coupe or sedan as being the same although I would think the fire wall would be the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 09:45 am:

I've done this procedure in a '27 coupe and I removed the manifolds, backed off the pedal adjustments and after some wrestling and more than a few choice words, out she came. The interesting chore is going to be installation - takes a considerable expanded vocabulary !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 10:16 am:

Hello again, and thanks for the further comments.

After another hour in the shop, I must say I'm perplexed. It sure seems that the HH must have to go a long ways up before it can go back (deduced by looking backwards from the carb) since the coil ring is such a large diameter compared to the semicircular cutout in the front of the HH.

There is a slight recess in the firewall just above the mag post. Does anyone recall if that recess allows the HH to come up just high enough to slide back a bit, and then go up the rest of the way to clear the coil ring? I've tried this routine, unsuccessfully, but if that's the way it is supposed to work then I shall try again.

Steve - my thoughts exactly about reinstallation, not only the tight quarters but with multiple gaskets and goo on all the flanges!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris S. Hill on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 10:37 am:

Good Luck!

Take some pain killer for your back, I sure know mine hurt when I had the hogs head of my '15. The hankering over in an awkward position made me quite sore. Thats with the lighter aluminum hogs head too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Boe on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 10:42 am:

Having completed this task on my 26 roadster I can say that I would rather just pull the engine out then to wrestle with a hogshead. I have never been able to get a hogshead not to leak unless I installed it out of the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G.Goelz Knoxville,Tn on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 10:49 am:

I just did this "procedure "on my 26 coupe with a Warford,never again because of leaks and other issues i have pulled the engine.language and a large hammer come to mind as you will want to kill something or somebody ,the clutch fork will turn over just as you get it into place,etc
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:39 am:

Please, for the sake of your health, sanity, religion, mortal soul, etc.... TAKE OUT THE ENGINE!!!

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 05:35 pm:

Chris
If you go at it you can have the engine out in a hour. Remove the steering column it makes the job sooo much easier both directions. It sounds like you will likely have to remove the pan anyway to find the missing parts. It will then be a good chance to check and adjust all your bearings. I would suggest removing the flywheel so you can clean all the junk out of the magneto and magnets. I just helped another local guy. He had had a bendix "explode". With the flywheel off we put a battery charger to the mag coil and found several shorts in the mag coil which we were able to fix. His mag was really weak before, good chance it will be OK now especially with recharged magnets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 05:41 pm:

I just pull the whole engine too. Replace what is needed, clean and paint if needed, reinstall. I usually pull out my comfortable "chair of ignorance" and sit admiring my work with a cold beer. How many of you guys have a special "chair of ignorance" in your garage that you collapse into, and stare at your T when things are going bad or good?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 06:20 pm:

I thought a "Chair of Ignorance" was what the owner attentively sat in and watched from while his friends, the ones who "know what they're doing", perform necessary repairs, removals, installations, work, modifications, menial and/or back-breaking labor, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 07:06 pm:

David, Richard, Mike, Les, and Dave... OK! OK! I'll pull the engine!

Had I managed this job without pulling it though, I would have saved a whole lot of time in the short term - when the engine comes out, it won't go back in before getting new valves, new rings, alloy pistons and everything else a tired T needs to feel young again.

Thanks all for your wise counsel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Blake on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 07:11 pm:

I have a "chair of dispair" that I occasionally sit in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Knockwafel on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 07:11 pm:

Take the engine out!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim ( www.ModelTengine.com ) on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 07:48 pm:

You can change them in the car, it's just not a whole lot of fun. You may have to remove the firewall first depending on what car you have. If you pull it out and go to the trouble of new valves, etc. You should get it balanced and aligned. I know a good mechanic if you need one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lovejoy on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:53 pm:

I gotta get me one of those chairs of despair, what a crack up!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 12:52 am:

Some months back I tried this same thing with a 27 roadster. Being a really fat guy I can tell you that I was turned in so many different positions and so many things were poking me in various places that I thought I had warped into the Bunny Ranch. If you loosen the body bolts, front and back you can jack the front up high enough to slide the engine out. It would be best if you removed the column but it can be removed with out doing it if your just a glutton for punishment. You will be taking the column out to put it back in, I promise. Some times you just can't get enough punishment and by some type of denial you will try it again on another car lets say a closed car which adds an even higher degree on stupidity and punishment. Its at that time that all the neurons completely cross the synaptic cleft and you get it. Do it the right way without cutting corners. You will actually save time.


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