I bought a ’26 chassis on ebay from a guy in Michigan. I live in Ohio. The previous owner had died and the seller pulled the car out of a shed to keep it from being scrapped. The title had been lost and I bought the car with a Bill of Sale from Michigan. I didn’t know what I would have to do to get a title, so I took the photos from ebay and the Michigan Bill of Sale to the Ohio Title Bureau and asked the clerk if I could get a title with these documents. She said she’d see what she could do and went in the back room and came back in about 15 minutes with a big book. She said Michigan started issuing titles in 1919 so I would have to have a Michigan title in order to get an Ohio title. This made it sound to me like if Michigan had started issuing titles after 1926 she might have been able to help me. So I was wondering if somewhere there is a list of when each state started issuing titles because if I could get a Bill of Sale from a state that started issuing titles after 1926 maybe it would help me get a title. Does anyone know where I can find this information? I looked up some state title bureaus but could not find this information listed. Thanks for any help. Joe

Alabama is the state to get a title, it used to be anyway. I have gotten 2 titles from there. A friend of mine lived there, but there used to be a guy there that did the leg work For a fee, of course.

Go to another DMV facility & tell them you bought it locally & it just doesn't have a title. That way you can have them help you get a new ohio title made. I hope you have better luck than here in Illinois.....it took me 8 months to get a title made for an antique motorbike.

Try to find out Ohio's procedure for obtaining a lost title with a bill of sale from someone in Ohio. If you know what I mean.

I live in Alabama, and when I went through the process, no title would be issued for a vehicle prior to 1963. I have a bill of sale and I have a classic car license that doesn't expire.

Dennis.

Joe, I live in Ohio also and have "been there" once, and will be soon again with my latest '15 touring acquisition. All you need to do is get a BMV inspector to either come to your house or you take the car to him/them and get it inspected, they sign it off, and you take that sheet to your title agency. I didn't even need to present the bill of sale, they just asked me how much I paid for it, condition of car, etc. Will do same soon, still waiting for my inspector to come out, as I obviously can't drive a Model T on these snowy, salty roads to the BMV office. I'm lucky, 'cause the service manager at a local garage does this. Costs $20. You may have to take it to your local state patrol post to have it done, it'll cost more. Call your local garages and see if you get as lucky. Good luck. Not a big deal.

Try calling your county judge's office. Here in Texas the County Judge and now JP's have the authority to declare ownership. With the declaration from their office the tax office applies for the title and in a few weeks, BINGO.

Frankly, you purchased a pile of parts, not a car. I presume that you plan on gathering more parts to assemble a complete car. It may make more sense for you to wait until you actually build the car before you apply for a title. That way, I would think you could apply for a title in a similar fashion that a street rodder applies for a title for a vehicle that he built from scratch.

Below is from the Q&A section of the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles website:

I purchased a vehicle in-state or out-of-state and the seller did not provide me with a title. I have a bill of sale. What do I do?

Contact the Titling Support & Dealer Licensing Section at 614-752-7671.

I purchased my vehicle from an in-state or out-of-state resident and do not have a title. I submitted my evidence to the BMV and still could not get a title. What else can I do?

Contact Titling Support & Dealer Licensing Section, at 614-752-7671 for a denial letter. You may need to seek legal advice for a possible court order title through the Court of Common Pleas (directing the clerk to issue a certificate of title per Ohio Revised Code, Section 4505.10).

Here is information on applying for a title for a "self-assembled" vehicle:

http://bmv.ohio.gov/salvage_inspection.stm

Joe; Be sure they use the engine no. on the engine and not a computer generated or other no.
I bought a Model T that had a North or South Dakota title with some number assigned by the state. Don't let them do that.
Ended up getting an Alabama title and license plate, then applied for an Indiana title. A little work, but is well worth it in the end.

Why don't you go to another title office and see another clerk? If there is only one office wait a few days and go back and find a different clerk.

Title Law a Trap Set for Car Thieves

How Michigan Has Proved Its Worth

By Edwin W. Sullivan

Is the Certificate of Title Law an effective weapon to use on the car thief? Michigan says it is, and points with pride to the, steady increase in the percentages of recovered cars since the measure was adopted. The theft of automobiles in the Wolverine State has been reduced more than 50 per cent since the enactment of this legislation. If all the States were in step and this law was universal, the market for stolen cars would be completely destroyed, it is claimed, and this would mean the end of car thieving.
Read here of the workings of the Michigan law, an object lesson for those other States which have not as yet taken steps like this to protect their motoring citizenry.

From earliest times, when man first created a system of government, there have been laws which would protect man's title to a piece of property, whatever it be, and that same title was taken as assurance by a prospective purchaser that the property he planned buying from another was all right. If it were not for deeds and abstracts of title, it would be difficult in this day and age to properly protect one's own land, and, in the case of sale, to guarantee to the buyer correct title.
While we usually think of real estate when mention is made of an abstract of title, there is another broad field in which the abstract of title may be used; as a matter of fact, it is now being used, and that is in its application to motor vehicles. In the last few years an even dozen States have applied the abstract of title idea to protecting the property of car owners, and with a great -degree of success.
In those States where the abstract or certificate of title law has been invoked the business of stealing and selling the motor cars of others has become a hazardous and not very profitable undertaking.

Virginia The Pioneer

Back in 1919 the State of Virginia enacted a law that required the recording by the proper authorities of automobile titles. In this respect the Old Dominion led the nation. But the 1919 law was by no means perfect, so that it became necessary in 1924 to repeal the old act and to pass what is known as the Uniform Certificate of Title Law. It is fashioned after that in use in Maryland and Michigan, the former State having adopted the law in 1920 and Michigan in 1921. In the same year that Michigan saw the necessity for such a law the Legislatures of Indiana and Missouri passed title laws. They were followed in 1922 by Alabama, California, Delaware, Florida. North Carolina, and Pennsylvania. The next and last State to pass the law was South Carolina, in 1924. Many of the legislatures in session this year are considering the Uniform Certificate of Title Law.

American Automobile Association officials, who have watched closely the operation of the law in the several States, are of the opinion that when the majority of the States have adopted a Uniform Certificate of Title Law the battle of years to stop automobile thefts will have been won. But even though several States now have the law functioning in excellent style, these commonwealths cannot expect complete success so long as there are States into which stolen cars may be driven and sold without difficulty.

Maryland, first to have a real title law, had just begun the issuing of titles for all cars owned in the State when Michigan enacted its law. The Wolverine State profited by any slight errors Maryland may have made and strengthened its law accordingly. The Michigan Act was drafted by Attorney Howard D. Brown, head of the Legal Department of the Detroit Automobile Club, and was introduced in the legislature by Senator George M. Condon, of Detroit. It bore the name of its sponsor and became known officially as the Condon Law. Through the efforts of Senator Condon among his colleagues, opposition to the title law was broken down and the act was passed on April 1, 1921. It became effective on July 1, 1921, and motorists of Michigan were given one year in which to comply with the law.

Executing The Law

Administration of the title law was given to the Secretary of State, whose duty it was to register motor vehicles, and this added burden, when one considers the enormous amount of detail to be worked out in organizing and maintaining an accurate check on about one-half million motor vehicles, was by no means a small task. The Secretary of State was directed by this law to make up such blanks as necessary to conduct the registration and then to mail to each registered owner application blanks, together with a copy of the Certificate of Title Law.

Charles J. De Land, then serving his first year as Secretary of State, selected John M. Haller, who was manager of the Secretary of State's branch office in Detroit, to organize this new division, which at that time was considered a big undertaking, in view of the fact that only one other State, Maryland, had this law. Maryland had slightly more than 100,000 cars to contend with at that time, while Michigan was faced with the problem of registering more than 480,000 cars.

Manager Haller went to Maryland to study that State's law, where he was shown every courtesy and where he learned much of value to aid in establishing a Certificate of Title Division in the Michigan Department of State. He also conferred wit h Indiana officials, who were just then planning to put their title law in operation.

Registration of the half million Michigan vehicles was begun, and in a year and a half the task was completed. In the meantime it was necessary to return thousands of applications to motorists because of improper descriptions of cars. Applicants gave every conceivable kind of number other than the right one because they were not familiar with markings on their cars, such as serial and motor numbers. Among the wrong numbers given were parts numbers, casting dates on motors, telephone, residence, and other numbers. This, added to the incomplete and unsigned blanks, was a problem to be met.

A system of card files was worked out that gave a rapid and accurate check on all registrations, so that an inquiry or check on any particular motor vehicle could be given in a moment's time. A cross-index as to engine number and name of owner was developed, white cards denoting engine numbers and buff cards names of owners. According to Manager Haller, this cross-index and the Title Transfer Files maintained in the department have made the operation of the Michigan law a success.

Checking Registrations

All registered-in-Michigan motor vehicles reported stolen or recovered are filed by means of a red card in the white engine number file. All cars from outside Michigan reported stolen are filed on a blue card. These red and blue cards have been the means of locating many stolen or abandoned motor vhicles, either through inquiry or by someone making application for Certificate of Title on the stolen or abandoned car.

The reason Michigan today is not recovering many cars stolen from other States is the fact that it has become generally known among automobile thieves that Michigan is a poor place in which to register a stolen vehicle. The reason for this is that Michigan insists on proper proof of ownership before a title will be issued on any car. It is true that Michigan has titled some stolen cars, but this has been due more to carelessness of clerks and shrewdness of thieves. However, this has been eliminated and it can be safely said that very few, if any, stolen cars are registered in Michigan today.

How The Plan Works

Fortunately, one form, that of the Certificate of Title, was uniform in Maryland, Michigan, and Indiana from the start, and such forms are the same today as when originally used. To simplify matters and conserve space, Michigan decided to have the first registered owner apply for title, giving the vehicle a Certificate of Title number which would remain with that vehicle during the life of the car. This was accomplished by giving each subsequent purchaser a new title on presenting a properly assigned title from the seller, and prefixing the same number with a letter, such as A, B, C, and so on. By this means the history of the car is kept intact and in one file and the title can be located quickly for reference.

The Michigan Certificate of Title, so far as known, has never been counterfeited. A watermark is in the paper and the front side is of greenish hue, in which the name of the State is imprinted. To erase a figure or name is difficult because the erasure can be noticed immediately and no such titles will be accepted for assignment.

Future Plans

The Uniform Certificate of Title Law has proven so effective in the 12 states that have adopted this law that all states are expected to enact similar legislation in just a few years to control automobile ownership and thwart thieves from stealing expensive vehicles.

This article was found in the American Motorist, May 1, 1925, Volume XVII, Number 5, published monthly by the American Automobile Association, National Headquarters, Pennsylvania Avenue and 17th Street, Washington, D. C.

Ted is onto something. What happens often boils down to which individual you deal with.

Ted and Steve are right. Vehicle title laws in various states are so byzantine that sometimes even the clerks have to be told how the law works.

Joe, I have jumped through the hoops for Ohio titles also. They like to think you stole them, at least that is the way I have been treated. I have tried the legal system way and bought off the internet, got burned on the internet one and finally met some one from a southern state that they had mentioned earlier. I now own cars with my ven. numbers and in my name. I sure wish Ohio would make it easier to issue a lost title for us! I hear Michigan is an easy State to get one issued also,HINT HINT.

I agree with Ted and have a slightly different opinion than Erik.You do have a pile of parts but whose pile of parts is it? Get a title before you invest any further or you might end up building a nice car for some body else who'll turn up out of the wood work when you try to title it after it's done.

My opinion:

I suggest reading my original post above.

Ted Dumas and Steve Jelf are correct - it depends on who you deal with. Some clerks are more knowledgeable than others.

However, I would call the phone number that I provided in my original post before hopping in my car and trying to deal with a different clerk.

You may be putting the cart before the horse by trying to title that running gear. Think of it as a pile of parts. You may be better off applying for a title as a "self-assembled" car once you actually put a car together. Again, see my first post.

broadwaytitle.com
check it out.
You can "sell" them the car and give them a bill of sale.
They will get it registered to themselves and "sell" it back to you.
Since they do not issue titles for that old of a car in Alabama they will give you a bill of sale.
Take the Alabama bill of sale to your DMV and they know that Alabama does not issue a title for cars older than a certain age they will transfer the ownership to you and issue a title.
Some states won't play that game, but most will.
Ca. did not allow it for a while but then last I knew they did again.

if u need a title contact me, i think i can help u

Although I don't live in Ohio, I don't think the situation is so, new, unique or complicated that you'd need to use Broadway Title.

Just get up early in the morning and call the number I provided above.

Then decide if you are better off titling a pile of parts or waiting until you actually build car to apply for a title.

Ohio WILL not except a Broadway Title, been there done that!

Ohio WILL NOT give you a title for what you have. The COMPLETED VEHICLE needs to be inspected by the State Patrol to verify the vehicle is road worthy. Then the state BMV will need you to go to court to get a court ordered title. If you want a correct year title do not get an assembled vehicle title.... you'll have a 2013 Model T. Ohio is a PITA to get a title. I'd have the guy from Michigan get a title. I understand all they need is for any law official to verify the VIN and off to the title office you go.

My dad (Missouri) used to sell a car for $1.00 to a friend in Iowa with a bill of sale. That person would go and acquire a title and sell the car back to dad.

Broadway title quit selling titles in Il. a while back, don't know about other states, New York is the best place to get bill of sale, at least it was three years ago, Bob

Oregon has made it so onerous to title a car without a title that I won't even consider buying a car without one anymore. And in fact, of the 65+ cars I have owned in the past 35 years, I would guess that I bothered to even put fewer than half into my name. That's how much I like dealing with those overpaid #@%!!.

Now there you have my bottom line Danial. No title, no sale. Of course in Joe's case the horse, (or horseless carriage if you will), is out of the barn. I not only won't buy a non-titled car I won't even consider a car in that condition. See my profile pic. I've had 3 T's and all of them, with the exception of heavy dirt layers and one that didn't run when I got it, have been in the condition of the car shown. Of course when I tire of a car it's off to the next project. Might be a T, might not. Here in N.J. when doing a title swap you need 3 photo's of the car. Just collectables? Don't know but it's required so showing up with pics of Joe's frame/engine wouldn't get you a title here anyway. Never mind just shutting up when your title says "4 door Sedan".

Tennessee will not accept a bill of sale anymore regardless of the age of the car. KB

The importance of having a title varies according to the jurisdiction. In some states it's vital. In others, not so much. I'm lucky in that Kansas falls into the not-so-much category. I've bought two vehicles in other states with only a bill of sale (one was hand-written on notebook paper), and had no trouble getting them registered and titled.

In Michigan all you need is a bill of sale (there is a form you can download but a hand written one will do if you have the necessary information), an inspection from a local law enforcement officer (you can download the inspection form), and a check for the sales tax.
It is best to have vehicle in driveable condition or clerk may require a roadworthy inspection which will require a lot of things not on a Model T, bumpers, windshield washers, etc. (Been there) Likewise DO NOT apply for an Assembled Vehicle title. Opens a really big can of worms with lots of requirements, like cost of parts used, their source, etc. I wouldn't be in a hurry to get it titled. I'd wait till it's ready for the road and then get an local updated bill of sale. But that's me.

In Michigan all you need is a bill of sale (there is a form you can download but a hand written one will do if you have the necessary information), an inspection from a local law enforcement officer (you can download the inspection form), and a check for the sales tax.
It is best to have vehicle in driveable condition or clerk may require a roadworthy inspection which will require a lot of things not on a Model T, bumpers, windshield washers, etc. (Been there) Likewise DO NOT apply for an Assembled Vehicle title. Opens a really big can of worms with lots of requirements, like cost of parts used, their source, etc. I wouldn't be in a hurry to get it titled. I'd wait till it's ready for the road and then get an local updated bill of sale. But that's me.

Opps. Lost my place and double posted.

Here in Massachusetts my agent went to three different registry branches,was denied at first two and right through at the third. The place that sent it right through is the smallest and least used in the area ( Wilmington ). What a head ache! It seems to be getting harder every year. Good luck

I sent the B O S to the Ohio bmv and got a rejection letter. I then took both to the county court of common pleas, filled some paper work and got an appointment with the county magistrate for a hearing. Went to the hearing with coat and tie to show proper respect. A few days later I received a court order for a registrar to issue me a title. I didn't have to show any pictures which was a good thing as it looked a lot like the one above. It is now an almost finished barnyard cruiser. I titled it as a roadster. The next hurdle is to get some insurance which may be a problem if I have to send pictures. The whole legal business cost me about $150 which was 20% of what I paid for the car. I guess in a worst case I can haul it to the local county fairgrounds and drive around in circles . It runs great which is a mirical as the engine was so rusty the VIN was illegable. It had new bands in it and plenty of oil . Engine wasn't frozen. New battery, new wires and new coils and she fired right up. A previous owner didn't believe in cotter pins or lock washers as there were almost none anywhere including the wheels, Sure glad I looked before the initial run. More later. John

If you have to pay sales tax on the value of the car at the time you get the title, I wouldn't stick too much time and money into it prior to getting the title. You'll have to pay tax on the increased value if the state deems its value higher than what you actually paid.

John Joyce, How long ago did you do this? Things have changed over the last summer and Ohio now also wants an inspection to make sure the vehicle is road worthy along with a court order to issue a title.

Why would the car need to be road worthy just to get a title if you are not going to put plates on it? I have a title for my 1916 Indiana Truck and half the spokes are missing out of the front wheels and it has not run in who knows how long. The only thing the inspection was for was to check the vin number. I know I am not in Ohio but maybe you should ask about this in case they think you are going to drive it this way. (I would drive it )

Bob

Guys, guys, guys....

I'm from Ohio and as mentioned in a previous posting above, today I finally got the chance to get my recently acquired '15 Touring titled. Bought it from Missouri with a bill of sale, finally got the BMV inspector out yesterday to sign the slip, took it to the title office, and 15 minutes, and a lot less money, later, had my title. Then off to the license bureau to get my Historical Tags. Simple. No court order, no fuss. Making too much out of it, at least from this point of view. Joe Rabb, hope you're reading this, but I'll pvt. you anyway.

Tim, was the inspection just a VIN/engine number verification, or was it a "road-worthy" inspection? Thanks.

Bill Thompson - Your friendly northern neighbors could have been a big help.
Up here all we need is a bill of sale and vin (motor number) inspection by the local authorities and we can then register a vehicle. Once registered it can be sold back into Messachusettts with out a title and the registry dosen't look twice.
I have done it numerous times for friends and sometimes It dosen't even need to be looked at

More title tales!! Son number two bought a 25 touring from an estate sale in South Carolina. North Carolina now has an inspection requirement for any antique car that comes into the state (title or no title). He had a valid title for SC. and made an appointment with DMV to have the car inspected. The inspector agreed that it was indeed a 1925 T. He said he could not give my son a title because the car did not have a speedometer!!!! Son said, "they didn't come with one". Inspector said,
It says here in this here inspection book that a car must have a speedometer". This is not for a road worthy inspection but a title inspection. We have been to all levels of DMV and they agree that the law is incorrect. We, not them, must get with our legislator to have a bill passed to correct their mistake. We have not been able to find a legislator who has the time to take this on with all the hoopla surrounding elections and financial issues. I know that another inspector would wink and get on with the title transfer but just the same the law should never have been made this way and when it is pointed out to them they should change it. You know, one person in the DMV even suggested that we put a speedometer on the car even though it would not be original. The reason this code was enacted is a person had his friends in DMV title a KIT car as and original and then sold it to someone who found out. Some DMV folks lost their job and a politician got his hand slapped.

David:
It's basically a VIN/engine inspection, the guy does "look it over" but frankly, I've never been "officially" approached about roadworthiness, and have done this twice now. I can't actually say with any authority of the "official need" for roadworthiness inspection in Ohio, at least not my county, as no official has made mention of it. Hope this helps. I do think that's a pretty good idea, but then, what makes one of these folks an expert on Model T's and their worthiness, other than some simple obvious things, like rotted tires, real loose steering (no one checked them at all-other than me before buying) or loose fenders, know what I mean?

Got it, thanks. Checked with Ohio BMV on an ownership transfer from my mother who lives in NY, who is the owner of my deceased father's 1920 Speedster. Since NYS does not title cars older than 1973, there is no title for the car; NYS uses a transferable registration for classic/antique autos. Ohio says since there's no title, they need the registration (in her name) to transfer ownership to me. Since it was taken off the road in 1979, and has not been registered since, the 1980 NYS registration in my father's name can be used to transfer ownership to my mother. She as the executor, signs the old registration to transfer ownership to herself. She'll need to provide a copy of my father's will showing that she's the executor. She'll also need to show proof of insurance (for a car that she won't be putting on the road), as NYS will not register a car without proof of insurance. Once that's all done, she can use the registration she gets to transfer ownership to me, in Ohio. Then I'll need to get the VIN inspection done and apply for an Ohio title.

Really? Is this really necessary? REALLY?

I once asked my dentist what is the evolutionary reason for teeth to have nerves. He said it's to support a profession. Just as the tax code is written to support the accountants and lawyers of the compliance industry, the vehicle registration laws are an employment program. There aren't enough real jobs where people do something productive, so we have make-work industries like this to keep folks busy.

Take it apart, take pictures and tell them you put the car together and need a new title. It sounds good to me

Ok..Ill jump in now. Read ALL your DMV forms online.
All I had was the motor# and 1 form Noterized. No questions asked,out in 10 min. $45 With Tital.
Two person country DMV,right at lunch time.

Hal, I looked into that also, and it's an even more complex process than the one I described. Suffice to say, the new NYS registration (as ridiculous as it is) is the better way to go in this situation.

Fred...sounds like Virginia does it pretty much same as here in Ohio...like I said earlier, just like you, barely 15 min. and a lot more money later (sales tax) I was done. Really simple overall. Now as for David dealing with his parent's car in NY, he sounds about right on, they make it a bit more difficult with no title for antique cars, and with the reg. in one name and now in possession of an heir, they have an extra hoop to jump. Too bad. It'll get done, but just more time, hassle, and red tape. I bought a Model A from a N.Y. guy, no title, just a reg., but as just the other day, only needed the BMV inspection, a bunch of money and everybody was happy. Hmmmm, I think it's all about the money, don't you guys? Oh yeah, and government control.

I didn't have an inspection, did it in May I think, maybe the court order helped. looks like some deputy registrars are a little looser than others. John