Or is he looking at a Chebby behind him?

Most surveyors have the story pole a little farther from the transit Why doesn't he just look over and read the numbers?

It's amazing how many places people took their cars back then. Today if it not a four lane smooth, well lite highway, cleared of all snow people whine.

Whatever he's doing it ain't surveying. The rod is leaning against the car.

His rod man took the picture, and forgot his rod.
Maybe U.S.G.S. Nat.Mapping. is that a gov. licence plate. They were using cars at that time.

Bob

Looks to me like he is using the pole to determine the height of his instrument above ground, necessary when carrying forward elevation differences.

Tony

Electric start, but non-demountable wheels.

What year did they start putting a plug in the body in place of a top support saddle?

Appears to have 1 man top and slant windshield.

That is a plane table alidade. They are used for map making and such. The last time I used one was about 1968 to make a map and locate trees by shooting stadia. Expensive property in Memorial area of Houston Texas. Ours was all brass, a beautiful instrument that I wish I had today.

Ken in Texas

That touring is a late '24, with the 4 dip pan too.

Really, the top shows the one pane rear window, 7" x 16" that was introduced in late '24.

And tail lamp is the late '24 style combo tea cup glass with red plastic lens over the glass, mounted on the license bracket.

Body has the so-called "commercial" front fenders, that have the molding hidden under the splash aprons.

The body plug is std on all open cars with the one-man top. The top prop saddle and threaded end prop rod came new with the car under the seat with the tool kit. Dealer could have installed, but most owners didn't as that rod stuck out and be a hazard, plus, most folks left the top up anyway

Dan,

I thought the rear window was probably a one-piece window also, but I wasn't sure as I have not seen many of them. But I believe the one piece window was introduced during 1925 and not the 1924 model year-- ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm and scroll down to TOPS where it has:

1923-1925
“One-man” top. When introduced in September 1922 the Touring top lower edge was a straight line from front to rear. After 100,000, the rear was given a gentle curve downward. Two rear windows, each 8-1/2 x 5-1/2”, with up to 8” between them (there seems to be no standard, they have been seen with anywhere from 3 to 8 inches between them). Now clamped to the top of the windshield posts, eliminating the support straps used earlier. Later 1925 tops had one rear window, as in the 1926-27 models.
1926-1927
Similar in style to 1925. Single rear window, 16-3/4 x 7”. Rear socket curves at the bottom. A letter from the Fargo, ND branch to its dealers, dated March 22. 1926, announced the availability of khaki or black top boots with matching gypsy curtains, for dealer installation.

As with most things Ford there could always be exceptions as well as overlap when the main factory might be producing the cars a new way while some of the branches continued to produce them the previous way.

Note on pages 365-367 are some Ford Factory photos of the 1925 pickup taken Dec 12, 1924 and Feb 28, 1925. It may be the same pickup – but it has the one piece rear window and the earlier style front fenders (bead runs around the splash apron rather than under the splash apron. That is supported by the 1925 factory pickup photos on page 355

The MTFCI Judging Guidelines have the two piece rear window on the 1924s and one piece rear window on the 1925s. Like many things – we would probably like it to be more “black and white” but I suspect the change would have had some overlap when both style tops were used.

When you have a chance would you please share your rationale for a 1924 date for the one piece rear window on the touring top? You may have some documentation or fossil information that I would like to add to my notes. Or you might be like me – sometimes I get the dates wrong – especially during the Dec and Jan transition time frame when I forget to put the new date.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Hap

Rationale is what I have read in older issues of Model T Times, letters to editor, and one from a NY man whose dad bought a mid-year 1924 runabout and it had the one-piece rear window.

Lots of changes during 1924, going into 1925 and by Aug of 1925 a brand new! (Improved as Henry demanded!) Car.

The Ford accessory rear view mirror appeared in Service Bulletin June 1924, the open car mirror was soon there after, and at same time the upper windshield frame was drilled with two holes to hold the open car mirror.

Sept 1924 Bulletin released it....but was probably around before that date....with the mirror, for the open cars, a one-piece rear window was made....so late '24 is the date I think.. Sure, calendar years, and model years are hard to work with, you could say a Sept 1924 was a '1925'....

Anyway, still think in calendar year 1924 there were one-piece rear windows on open car tops

Dan,

Thank you for the additional details. From the factory photo of the 1925 pickup (that didn't really start production until a few months later) it did have the one piece rear window in Dec 1924. I would agree late calendar year 1924 there were some out there and I would guess the overlap when both were offered continued into calendar year 1925.

With the "model year" running approximately Aug 1924 to Aug 1925 [ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/1925.htm ] -- I wonder when in the 1924 calendar year Ford started bringing out the one piece rear window? One more piece of information to track down when we have a little more time.

Again, thank you for the additional details.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap

Hap

Would be fun to research the actual date, but, probably you have it to begin with, the "1925 Models" were official with the Ford fiscal year.

So Aug 1, 1924 should be the time the one-piece rear window in open car tops first appeared.

Found this Ford Owner and Dealer mag., Dec. 1924 adv. from the largest supplier of Ford glass replacement windows, they would have made new product for the one-piece rather soon after.

There was no adv. by Hastings in Nov. 1924 issue, but in Oct. 1924 issue was the same adv Hastings had run for many issues, showing only the 3 piece, and the 2 piece was noted as "1923 and newer"..... so at least in Nov. 1924 they were considering the new one-piece, and needed a month or so the get it in the advertising.


Dec. 1924 Ford Owner and Dealer

Ken is correct, it is a plane table and alidade. i also used one in 66 to map geologic formations in Wyoming. They were outdated even then.

If the area was large the surveyor would often employ 2 or even 3 assistants as they had to physically stand at each significant point you wanted to map and the surveyor could take a reading on the stadia far quicker that one assistant could run between points. If it was a small job he may have had extra stadia and stacked them outside the car.

The great advantage of the alidade is that it made a map directly on a sheet of paper placed on the plane table. A map of a small area (500-600) acres could be made and finished incredibly fast.

Even faster now with GPS.

schuh

I agree with Dan on all counts. He does his homework. Just because the guy tacked on that electric tailight doesn't mean it has a starter though. It is obvious that is a non starter car. I've always assumed the reason Ford went to the one piece rear window is because of the introduction of the inside rear view mirror. I have a March '25 pickup, with a 1923-4 Sorenson top on it, and you can't see much from that mirror with the two rear windows.

I failed to mention, we are now making the body plugs. They are just like the originals, except they are soft rubber all the way through. They should be available from Snyders soon. They were used from 1922-27. Interesting, from above, I didn't know Ford put the top saddles and irons under the seat when new. I always thought the owner had to go to the parts department, and buy them. Where did you find that out Dan?