Just so everybody knows what we're talking about, here's a picture of the 1909-1920 front bearing and its two spring clips.



Here it is before I took the spring out.


This shows that even with lock washers added, the holes are far above the castle nuts. One reason is that there was no pad. But even after I put a pad in place, it appears to me that the holes will be too high. So the questions are:
1 How thick is the pad supposed to be?
2 Is the rubber pad better than the leather one, or vice versa?
3 The spring has seven leaves. That's correct for 1915 isn't it?
4 I haven't found any parts listing for the lock washers. They don't belong, do they?

Steve Jeff:

Is that not a spring clip for a TT? TT spring clips always do that

Here is a picture from my 1915/16 Coupelet. Looks to be the same as yours. Hard to see but mine has washers also. This is prior to rebuilding the front end and adding the leather spring pad from Lang's.

Here is a drawing of a spring pad from:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/49993.html?1205336187



I think heavy rubber belting works well. Just form it so it is close the the leather pad.

Jim

Steve, are those U bolts the same cross section where they cross the spring leaf? In my experience the bottom of the U is shaped differently. They are flat across the spring with a ridge along the bottom. Also there is a groove each side which will allow the U bolt to be drawn up over the cross member. I cannot see this in your photos. Perhaps the U bolts you have are from a different make of vehicle. they appear differently forged from each other as well.

Can you post a picture of the u bolts removed from the bracket?

Allan from down under.

The front spring stack is missing!

sorry didn't see second pic.. Wrong spring?????

Missing the leather?????

Steve,

I THINK John is on the right track. Your photos do not have the spring stack in place. Once you put the spring and the leather in place it should pull the U-bolts down and correct the problem.

I can't tell what's going on in Phillip's photo, but I think something is not right. Perhaps a missing spring leaf??

Here are the clips. They look to me like #3808 in the parts books, but I don't have any others for comparison.


One is slightly longer, but on the car both had the holes too high.

Everybody read the original post.

Steve those two clamps look like their from different planets. Odd ball lengths, differing cotter pin hole sizes, ect. "make 'em long enough to work on any T" might have been the motto here. Too short & their junk.

Sorry, Steve. I did go back and read your original post. I have been what's called "non-responsive". I don't know the answers to your four questions.

I've had the rubber pad in place for over 5 years, as far as I know it's still doing it's job.

"SPRINGS
1909-1915
All taper-leaf. 7 leaves in the front. 8 leaves in the rear, except for the 1911 Torpedo which used 7. Several types appeared. In one the spring clip was riveted to the leaf, with the bolt running under the spring. On another, the leaf was curled upwards and the clip bolt passed through the curl above the spring. Still another used a separate clip assembly."

My 1920 parts book does show a 6 leaf front spring for 1916 but there isn't any indication for which car it fits.

I can't find any concrete information before 1920/21 on the spring clip. My 20/21 parts books don't list a lock washer for 09 to 20/21.

Bruce's wonderful CD Compendium notes 3 revs to the 3808.

First for the 1909, then factory number was rev to 325B and noted 'old type' for 6 leaf non-taper spring and 7 leaf taper spring.

Then Dec 1920 rev for 325B noted for 7 leaf non-taper.

And another rev July 1921 325C for 7 leaf non-taper.

But you need the blueprints to see what changed.

Here is a rather poor copy, this is a true period picture from 1915. A rather newest 1915 was being outfitted with powered accessory starter on the front.

But from close inspection you can see the leather pads on the frame for the radiator, the wire tie on the bolts that secure the front motor mount, and the castle nuts on the 325B seem to have the threaded end well up in the air, may be correct what you have Steve!

After a phone conversation with a forum member who checked a lot of clips, I now know the standard length from the flat of the crosspiece to the ends of the bolts is 3.5". One of mine is a little longer, but all four holes on the two clips are exactly at 3.25". I've decided to use a rubber pad. If that doesn't get the nuts high enough, I'll use a thicker pad.

I read above twice. I hope I didn't miss it twice. Is your front spring a taper leaf or otherwise? The taper leaf is slightly thinner even near the center than the later non-taper leaf spring. I have seen that those type U-bolts come in more than one length up to the cotter pin hole. I have always assumed (we all should know how that word is spelled and what it means) the length difference was due to the thicker later springs. If your "bitsy" '15 has the correct taper leaf spring and the later non-taper U-bolts, that is what would happen.

Steve, You look to be moving fast on that beautiful runabout! Are you going to have it ready in time for Kanab?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Steve,

Yours looks just like the original ones on my '15 touring and my '17 runabout. I put flat washers under the lock washers to make the hole closer to the castellations of the nuts.

Here's an original 1915 pad:

I am having a similar problem only my u bolts are too short. I do not have the tapered leaf springs so that might be my answer.

Your u bolt on the right looks like it has had the tops of the legs cut off making it shorter. Other than that and the different sized cotter key holes (smaller ones could be full of dirt) I think they are the same bolt.

Steve, the u bolts are T ones as I know them. It would appear you have two from different suppliers. Apart from the different size split pin holes and different lengths, there are differences in the forgings too.

I use a rubber pad in mine, cut from a piece of canvas re-inforced belting about 1/4" thick.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.

I've seen that situation before, and it's pretty common. I use only leather pads, made by Russ Furstnow exactly like original. You can use the type of cotter pin where one side of the head faces down to help your situation, but frankly I've never seen those nuts loosen up.