Holley H threads

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Holley H threads
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 07:57 pm:

Probably one for Stan.

Before I order the wrong die, what thread is on the plug over the inlet valve on the Holley H carb?

And while I am at it, does anyone have the complete list of threads on this carb?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 02:18 pm:

anyone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 03:04 pm:

Is this an NH carb?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 04:18 pm:

Like Jack, I'm wondering what it is. I'm familiar with the G and the NH, but I haven't heard of the H. Are you sure it's for a Model T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 04:33 pm:

Fellows, the Holley H is the carb for a 1912 T. It has an unusual needle and seat arrangement in a separate chamber along side the fuel bowl. This chamber is covered by a slotted cap which has a very fine thread. Also, the fuel line is connected to the bowl via a separate elbow, with captive nut, which screws to the bowl.

This carb is shown in Bruce's bog black book.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 07:45 pm:

Thanks Allan.

I obtained this carb amongst a heap of others and have only recently recognised what it is.

The Holley H was one of the carbs used on the 1912 T. It was replaced by the Holley S which was in turn replaced by the Holley G (1917-1920). Most T's now run NH's as they were the simplest of all model T carbs.

The photo shows my Holley H on the left and one of my as yet uncleaned Holley G's on the right.

Holley G & H

My short term aim is to make it look complete and pretty (but not necessarily functional)as a conversation piece for my mantle piece or a shelf in my study. Long term I would like to make it functional but as I don't have a 1912 T, I am not in any hurry.

As you can see, the H is reasonably complete( even if the three screw top is off a G). It will not be presentable until I have the screw that closes off the inlet valve chamber.

BTW, I have been looking for a tap to clean out the thread on the bottom of a NH. None available locally but on Saturday found a web site for Tracy Tools in the UK. I ordered a tap and a die from them on Saturday night and they arrived on my NZ doorstep yesterday morning. 2.5 days! Fantastic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 10:05 pm:

Best to ask Russ Potter about that one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 10:58 am:

The H is pretty rare, I've never been able to get my hands on one. That needle and seat setup is typical of the early carbs from most makers and works quite well. They are not too hard to put a modern needle and seat in. The threads are an oddball "carburetor special" they may be 9/16 x 24 or 27 or 5/8 x 27. Good luck trying to find a tap for that. A better answer is probably just to find a cap from a Schebler, which should fit and is easy to find, since Schebler used that float system in thousands of carbs, at least two different sizes of cap and a couple different threads. I need one of those for my collection. I'll do a little checking when I get time and see what thread Schebler caps are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 11:10 am:

Some stuff that must have been common sizes in the day are hard to find now. I'm rebuilding a Planator two speed for a guy, the cross pin for the pinion gears is 9/16 and of course is pretty worn. The only hardened shaft I can find in 9/16 is $91.95 for a 36 inch piece. It's on the order for today, gotta have it, whattayado?

I checked out that Tracy tools site, they have the STUFF! I bookmarked that one. Thanks for the link to that, Gavin. I've got a few old things that have threads I can't hardly measure. One carb I've been looking at an thinking about what to do about the threads I think needs a couple of those taps and some screws to fit.

Talking about England, which we are kind of doing, there was a virtually NOS Myford lathe on ebay last week. I wanted to bid on it but figured it would sell for more money than it did. Whoever bought it probably had a bigger bid in than what he got it for. They are the ultimate English made lathe and are a "proper" metal lathe. A couple friends bought new ones in the 70's when I couldn't buy a new file let alone a lathe. They still have them and will have them till they die. They are a very nice machine. I'd trade my Chinese lathe for one in a heartbeat even if they don't have all the digital readouts and variable speeds that the new Chinese stuff has.

Off to the shop


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 11:34 am:

I made a cap like that for my 5 ball from a facet stem from Lowes. Do not know if the same thread, but it is for a 5 ball. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 11:48 am:

If you have a lathe it would not be a hard part to make. I just don't have time to do that kind of thing if I can find a used part. I've fooled away half a day on some little thing I can't charge and hour's time for. That's a good idea, Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 12:06 pm:

When I look in the McCalley book, I see a Holley H-1, but haven't been able to find an H. I've got an H-1 on my '12 which looks just like the McCalley picture on Page 428.

Is your carb actually marked "H" ? It certainly doesn't look mine.

Dick Fischer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 01:04 pm:

While we are talking about Holley carbs, anybody have an inch and a quarter Model K Holley? I need one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 01:07 pm:

I assume Gavin's is an H-1. This is from the encyclopedia on this site.

The 1912 Holleys: These came in three versions; two with three-screw top plates, with and without the air pipe clamp on the intake (shown), and one with a two-screw top plate and an air pipe clamp but otherwise quite similar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 02:36 pm:

I don't have a Holley H to measure, the Schebler threads are 3/4 x 24 and 5/8 x 24, the Kingston 5 ball threads are 3/4 x 24.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 04:42 pm:

The H-1 cap is 3/4 x 32.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 06:41 pm:

Thank you R.V. I came to the same conclusion and have ordered it from Tracy's. I didn't know where to measure; the peak of the thread or the trough (11/16 or 3/4). Ordered both (last night) before I decided that it was 3/4. As it happens, I got an email a few hours later saying that 11/16 is not available at the moment so that was in my favour.

Stan. I too think H-1 but don't know if the three versions were H-1, H-2 & H-3 ??? anyone???

Dick. How about a photo of your H-1 ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 07:03 pm:

Gavin, I measured the thread for Stan and came up with 32 tpi as RV stated. My spare Holley H is missing the same cover, so I am interested in your purchase from Traceys.

The spare is a three screw version without the clamping screw on the end.

Stan, you mention a relatively easy retro fit of a modern type needle and seat. The carb on my van works well, most of the time, even though the needle is worn. However, one in twenty stops and it will leak fuel until I give it a good whack on the bowl to settle it down. Would your fitment be a screw in fit in the original pivotted arm and could I fit it without sending the carb all the way to you?

Hoping for some help.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 07:44 pm:

I have to have the bowl to machine it for the conversion to work. I machine an Edelbrock racing needle and seat, drill and tap the needle, install a shoulder screw and washer, fabricate a totally new arm for the float arm/hinge/needle arm etc. Looks like this. This one is in an early Schebler for a 1903 A but the idea is the same.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 04:13 am:

Thats neat Stan. Your slotted arm at the needle end does away with the problem nicely. The needle being captive in the original arm means that it describres an arc in operation, and this means it sometimes does not land in the right place when I stop, causing the infrequent leak.
Thank you for your pictures.

On a side note, I have included two photos of the needle chamber cover. I am most thankful for this thread, because when I went to check my car, the cover was loose by a couple of turns and I could have lost it.
The outer diameter is cross knurled as shown. The underside is recessed where the fibre washer sits, and the base is hollow to allow the needle assembly some clearance when assembled. Altogether not something this ameteur machinist would like to replicate!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:38 am:

Thanks.

They are not that hard to machine. I have made several of them. If you do all the thread end machine work while it is still on the donor shaft and then cut it off and cut the convex on the top it is pretty easy. I have dies for most of the sizes up to 3/4, don't have one for 1 x 32, that's on my list of things I want. I have to cut those on the lathe, even then it doesn't take but a few minutes. My new small lathe backs out to thread, not quite as fast as the big one but it does an OK job. It probably takes me ten minutes to thread something like this. Knurling is pretty easy if you have a sharp cutter. I just bought a new old stock Armstrong with a floating head on ebay. Only used it once, last week, it does a nice job on brass, which is about all I ever knurl. I've made a false female end to thread parts like this into while I do the top, it keeps you from having to clamp on the threads.

The one thing I have found that I have to check is the amount the float drops. On some carbs I have to add a check to the arm so it doesn't go down so far it pulls the needle up out of the valve. So far I have been soldering a stop on the arm but am going to start using a brass 2-56 or 4-40 screw so it adjustable and easier to mount.

I took some pictures of the knurl after I did the knobs for the Schebler for the 1903 A, haven't downloaded them yet.

You might want to replace the fibre gasket with an O ring. It will seal the leak better and also has more friction to keep the cap from coming loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 02:15 pm:

Gavin,

Here are the H-1 pictures that you ask for. The carb is on my '12 Touring.

And I've got some egg on my face. My H-1 DOES NOT look like the one in McCalley's book. Mine looks the same as the picture that you posted on Feb. 26. I installed mine about 15 years ago and just assumed that it matched the McCalley picture.

Below are a couple pictures of my H-1 and then a scan of page 428 in Bruce's book. Could Bruce have accidently used a picture of a Holley G and mislabeled it as an H-1 ? That book has a mass of information and a few clerical errors are bound to occur.

By the way, I removed an NH and installed the H-1 primarily for authenticity. I always thought that, if the H-1 didn't run well enough I'd go back to the NH. The H-1 has always run just great and I've never had an urge to put the NH back on.

Dick Fischer

carburetorcarburetormccarb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 02:32 pm:

Thanks guys, excellent photos.

Stan, your "how to" description will be very helpful. I am a very amateur machinist and have not cut any threads on my very worn Myford lathe but this might be the project for me to learn on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 03:03 pm:

Thanks, if I ever had any time to do any extra work I might turn out a few of them.

What Myford do you have? I didn't bid on the almost new ML7 that was on ebay last week; after it sold I have been kicking myself I didn't at least make the guy pay more for it. It was a 70's model that sat in a basement unused since it was almost new. It sold for $3100. I love Myford lathes, always wanted one but never could afford one when they were still in production. I have a 13 x 36 Jet engine lathe, a little Chinese 8 x 16 which is actually pretty good for a cheap Chinese lathe and two Unimats. I want to sell the Jet and get a newer one with a gear head that is slightly larger. It's been a great lathe, is about 20 years old, I've never even had the 4 jaw mounted on it. I'd also like a Myford Super 7, an older Clausing, a Boley watchmakers lathe, etc. I should have bid on that Myford and borrowed the money to pay for it. It was a heck of a deal in my world, even though you can buy a larger Oriental one for less that has a lot more modern features. The bad thing is that the ML7 doesn't have a power crossfeed but they are so much more a "Proper" lathe than the new Oriental stuff is. If I could find a Super ML7 like that I'd be a bidder. I missed a nice little Navy surplus Logan a couple years ago at an auction. I should have bought it, it was new old stock from the 50's. Had a little rust and needed paint but it was brand new. I quit at $650, it sold for $1200. I should have bought it. I've had about a dozen lathes over the years,several Orientals, a couple South Bend, two or three Atlas, several Craftsman and one Logan. I like the nice old US & English made ones best even tho the Taiwan made Jets are about as good as anything made for the money. I don't know if the Chinese Jets are as good. Mine have all been Taiwan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 05:08 pm:

Stan, you might like to consider a Hercus model AR. These little lathes were made in South Australia and were a locally made equivalent for the Myford. They are well regarded and have a range of add ons. The only drawback is the beds are not hardened, and if not well maintained, can be worn. There is meat enough in the bed to be able to re-machine them to specs.

My local machine shop still has one in use which they bought second hand in the early 70's. It is the preferred tool for many smaller jobs still.
I will try to get some photos for your interest.

By the way, if you make some spare needle covers for the H 1, put my name on one.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 05:39 pm:

Either the photo or the caption is in error. The photo shows a Holley Model G. No doubt a photographic version of a typo, since Bruce well knew the difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 03:47 pm:

Stan,

ML7, I bought it 5 years ago. It is very worn but I am learning to compensate for the play. Myfords are very common in NZ so spare parts are easy to obtain, And of course you can still buy new parts from the UK. I would love a Super7 but they fetch quite a bit more money than the ML7.
First time I've used a lathe since I left high school in 1969.


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