Need some help on this old C-Cab

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Need some help on this old C-Cab
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 11:54 am:

Hello,
My dad and I just bought this really cool old Ford C-Cab truck yesterday. It was sitting in a shed for many many years. We do not even know the year of it but it is really complete considering how old it is. However, the bad part is that we are missing the following items and need help locating them:

engine
bellhousing
clutch assy
steering wheel
foot pedals
headlights and headlight stands
steering sector gearbox
wood kit for the roof, floor and seat
and..... we are looking for a good/usable set of wood spoked wheels.


Can anyone here tell me where I can find these parts in used or new condition? I already have catalogs coming from Snyders and Macs.

We basically need an assembly manual and all other info we can find related to this really neat old truck.

Thanks,
Zack
cva59@hotmail.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:10 pm:

Zak, head for Chickasha Oklahoma. There's a swap meet there this week. You'll find a lot of pretty nice stuff.

Check out ebay by doing a search for "Model T". Don't forget the quotation marks. Look on the classified ads on this site or on the Ford Barn site. Hemmings can be good.

Call "Texas T's". They're on the internet.

Watch for and contact some of the people on the forums that sell parts.

Join your local Model T club.

Try Andy Loso in about a week. he's going to Chickasha now but will be back next week. He's a good contact for parts. And his father in law is doing a C-cab at this present time. He'll probably need a lot of the parts he's got but if he gets doubles or even knows someone who's got what you need and he doesn't mind, he may share a phone number or two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Bohannon on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:11 pm:

Congratulations on your truck. It looks like a great start but you do have a way to go. You might consider finding another T with the engine and trans in it. And combining it together. Also ebay and the classifieds on this site are good places to look. Do you know what year it is. Also is the rear differential in the truck I could not see. If not that is special for T trucks only. I have a 25 TT myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:12 pm:

Zack
Where are you located, I'm sure help will be on the way.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:17 pm:

Thanks a million guys. I will follow up on all your leads.

Yes, this truck has the tranny with the driveshaft still hooked up and the rear diff appears untouched.
This truck is simply incredible. My dad and i have been building and restoring classic cars for ever, mostly hot rods but this is our first real attempt at something this old and one that will be returned back to stock condition. I can't wait to get started on it. Thanks again for the info


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:17 pm:

Bob,
I'm in Longview Texas.

Thanks,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:23 pm:

Can anyone tell me what years they made this particular truck?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:35 pm:

Also, Would this engine be correct for this truck?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20S-COMPLETE-FORD-MODEL-T-ENGINE-TRANSMISSION-TOURING-CO UPE-SPEEDSTER-TT-TRUCK-/321063887442?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits =Model%3AModel+T&hash=item4ac0e62252&vxp=mtr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Thompson on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:41 pm:

Where are you? I have a complete engine 1926 fresh rebuilt engine and transmission. Sudbury MA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Thompson on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 12:42 pm:

Where are you? I have a complete engine 1926 fresh rebuilt engine and transmission. Sudbury MA
$2250.00


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:12 pm:

It's hard to tell from the picture, but I think your truck is 1925-1927. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 1925 was the first year Ford provided metal cabs.

The ebay engine is 1919-1925. If the seller will provide the serial number, we can pin it down to the exact day of assembly.

Given the amount of stuff you need, I second the suggestion of a trip to Chickasha Thursday and Friday, in a vehicle that can haul stuff. A bunch of Model T forum guys will be getting together at noon Thursday between the main buildings. Ask around and you'll find people who can provide some guidance on what you need.

As you guys have previous mechanical experience I'll suggest making your own wheels with new wood, rather than buying old ones with wood that may or may not be good, and are likely cost more than making new ones. Again, there will be parts for this at Chickasha. If you can't make it there, the parts are readily available elsewhere.

Finally for now, welcome to the affliction. Model T's tend to become addictive and proliferate. VOE. Here's some important information for all new T owners:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:18 pm:

Zack - Yes, the engine on ebay could be correct for your truck, and the engine Bill has for sale above could also be correct.

Ford began the C cab bodies in January, 1924.

The '24 through '26 TT's had a rectangular ignition / ampmeter panel, and the '27's had the oval panel used on the cars.

If your TT was made after December 7, 1925, it will have the original engine number stamped on top of the frame, right under where the passengers feet are. You will probably have to really clean the area and look carefully to see it. It's just to the right of the transmission area, and will be 11 digits long.

There is no assembly manual for these, but the Ford shop manual comes pretty close and reprints of it are available from the vendors like Langs, Snyders, Smith & Jones, etc. You can find contact information for them on this site under "suppliers"

Another good source for parts is John Danuser who posts on this site.

I have a '25 TT C cab with the Express pickup style box on it & it's a farmer type restoration.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:26 pm:

I guess I was typing while Steve posted.

I see you're way in eastern Texss, so Chickasha would be a real hike, however, I think you would find it very worthwhile. There are very many knowledgable people there and lots of T and TT parts
there.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:36 pm:

The dimensions of the oval back window will help nail down the year or get it close as 24 had a smaller window than the later ones. The C-Cab was made 24-26, but I think you can have a late 23 and I have never seen a 26 version, but that is me and I am young. The steel enclosed cab was 25-27. Being your are in Texas, come to Chickasha this week. Johnson's Wood Wheels will be there and they can respoke your wheels, not cheap but well worth it, you are riding around on those wheels; your life depends on them.
I would recommend a new radiator if you are going to drive this truck a lot.
Do you have the upper windshield frame? The C-Cab's had a special windshield frame that was taller than the standard one.

If you buy a complete engine, you should get the bellhousing(what Model T people call a hogshead) and the peddles come attached.

It appears you have the correct high arch front spring, either that the missing engine give that appearance.

The patterns are available for wood pieces for the C-Cab, same with the floor wood. There is no wood in the seat area that I know of just springs.

An interior shot of the transmission/driveshaft area would help us.

I sell new parts, just like the big guys with great service and have lots of used parts as well. Feel free to email me at aloso@q.com or call me at 320-293-1953. I will be in Chickasha this week so call and we can get together and visit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:43 pm:

Just guesstimating from the map it looks like a little over 300 miles. If you can get the time off, go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:53 pm:

You guys are great! I knew i came to the right forum.
Here are a few more pics. Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming.Is this transmission the same as what is in the car? It has a shifter and i'm not sure if this tranny will connect to the engine on EBAY or Bill's.

Thanks
Zack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 01:53 pm:

Engine number on the E-bay engine is 11,415,861.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 02:07 pm:

What make of trans is that? If it is a Giant Jumbo, do you have the coupling for the U-joint? They are hard to find. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 02:30 pm:

Zack,

The trans looks a lot like a Chicago, if so it will have a square input shaft that mates up to any year T engine.

Scrape off some of the gunk and you should see a brand name.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 02:55 pm:

I have no idea what the tranny is but i will as you said scrape it clean and get you a name.

There is no u-joint coupling that i have seen.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 03:27 pm:

If it is a Chicago, there is no u-joint, just a straight input shaft that fits into the end of the Model T engine assembly. Some other brands used a u-joint or adapter between the trans and engine. These adapters/u-joints were typically unique to the brand of transmission rather than the standard Model T u-joint.

Regardless of the brand, these are straight cut gear transmissions with no synchros that have a true neutral. Shifting them while driving requires matching the RPM of the engine to the transmission speed. It takes practice. The true neutral also means that it disables the foot operated service brake while the aux trans is in neutral. That can be exciting. Good emergency brakes or auxiliary brakes on the rear wheels are a necessity. Neutral is way to easy to find and once there, getting the trans back in gear can be difficult.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 03:30 pm:

The date for the ebay engine/transmission is Saturday, 3-21-25.

It looks like the auxiliary transmission has the standard Ford u-joint cover or its equivalent on the front. It may just bolt right up with no trouble when you put in the u-joint. It attaches to the back of the regular Ford transmission. Look again at the ebay picture, and you'll see the transmission with pedals attached to the rear of the block. That contains the clutch and all the shifting mechanisms. The engine and transmission are customarily removed and installed as a single unit.

The picture of the dash rules out 1927. You can see the outline of the rectangular instrument panel.

Your truck was the "luxury version". It had a starter and generator. Some trucks, like my TT project, didn't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 05:33 pm:

Zach's transmission is a 6 spd Warford , the top wood kits are available from Julius and Marvin Neunhoffer from Kerrville texas, the will be at chickasha, and the fellow who builds all new C cab TT parts will also be in Chickasha Don Vagasky cell ph 520-403-8592 I also have lots of TT parts for sale, and I will not be there this year, health problems. danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 05:50 pm:

Zach, from what I'm seeing in your pictures you have a rare 1926 Body and Frame. The upper Side panels have an interesting Reinforcement that has a curve instead of being straight like the factory ones and seems to be an aftermarket piece. I can see the rear of the fenders as they should be of the 1925 stye also the radiator shell should have round holes instead of square ones for the lacing.There are a few other things but overall it looks like its pretty much original. Zach you will find the VIN number between the right step mounts on the top of the frame they might be hard to see as these sometimes are very light.This will help identify the month is was made. I have a question as to weather or not this truck has the rear cab body mounts riveted to the frame instead of being bolted as one of mine does. I'm not sure why Ford did this and is this one riveted also?

Cab Mount


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 06:03 pm:

Fred,

Dare to elaborate or better yet educate us on why you think it is a rare 26 frame and cab. I can barely see enough of the frame to begin to speculate.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 07:54 pm:

I just looked again, the trans is not a 6 spd Warford, Jumbo Giant I think


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 09:10 pm:

Hi Andy, Zaks picture showing the inside of the cab is all you need to tell that it is a 1926 frame. This picture also shows that the cab, (if it has not been pieced together) would be a 1926 also such as the Firewall and Firewall frame mounts. The Cab also has the post March 1925 front body mount 2 hole tab.

I have been putting together some information for the American TTs from 1917-1927. In my discoveries I have found differences in particularly the C-cab Dec 1924 - Aug 1926. The Enclosed Cab had several changes also from Mar 1925 - Nov 1927.

In March 1925 Ford made a frame design change for the TTs. The new Enclosed Cab and the C-Cab as well as the bare chassis now had a redesigned front body mount that mounted with 3 rivets and had a body pad with 4 holes. (Rear body mount changed earlier in 1925) This mount was used on all TT's until the end of production in Nov 1927.

1926 TT frame now had no hole for a bolt horizontally through the frame and crankcase ears nor the wood block that the bolt went through. In 1926 there were other chassis changes as well. I also have one of the late 25 C-cabs with a slightly different Cab than the early 25 but same as the 26 but it too came with the wide peddles so these pedals were out before the 26 models.

Now I have not been able to get the exact date on the C-cab front body mount change but it occurred about the same time as the Enclosed TT came out.

I could go for a while so I hope this helps.
Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 09:51 pm:

Wow, so this could be a 26? If so, what's the significance of that?

Also, would this be a 3/4 ton or how do they rate these trucks?

I'm thinking seriously about the engine on EBAY. I talked to the seller a few times today. He also has said it will work in this truck and will include some other small items i will need as well.

So, this truck had a generator or did the magneto fire everything?

Sorry guys but my dad and I are complete newbies to this year model of truck.

Thanks again very much for all you guys help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:11 pm:

I just looked at the Chicksha swap meet website, i would love to go. However, it is on Thursday and Friday next week and where i work, i'm "on call" all week so that means i have to stay close to home. Maybe i can catch it next year. I was sure hoping to go too, LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:40 pm:

The significance of 1926 is that the 1926-1927 engine and transmission had several changes from those of 1925 and before. The pedals were wider, the transmission drums were a different size, two extra bolts were added attaching the top of the transmission to the block, and there were a few other changes.

The letters TT stand for Ton Truck.

The seller of the ebay engine is right that his engine will fit your truck. Whether you want it depends on how authentic you want to be. Any Model T engine from 1909 to 1927 will fit, so the 1925 engine will work as well as any. But if you want to be "correct" you'll want an engine/transmission matching the year of the frame. If you can find the serial number on the frame, that will tell you its date of manufacture and you can decide whether you want to try to match it.

The Model T electrical system from 1919 on has two ignition sources. Switched to BAT, the coils get their juice from the battery. Switched to MAG, they operate off the magneto. It's customary to start on BAT for easier starting, then switch to MAG for better running. The generator's job is to charge the battery which operates the starter. One advantage of this system is that the vehicle will start and run without the starter and battery if the magneto is up to snuff. Before the starter was added in 1919, Ford pretended that no battery was needed, and didn't supply one with the vehicle. But they were realistic enough to provide a switch and connection that allowed for a battery to be used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:59 pm:

Great info Steve, thanks. I want the engine to correct as much as possible. I have so much to learn about this old truck but it will surely be fun.

So, the ebay engine pedals may not fit my original metal floor cutouts since that engine is a 25 model correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 11:17 pm:

Zack, I think it's important for you to look into purchasing a book written by Glenn Chaffin and sold through the MTFCA. Or get ahold of Andy Loso. He's always got some. They're only about $15.00 and they'll show you how a model T transmission works. The transmission you're looking at in your frame is an auxillary transmission. It actually mounts behind the model T transmission which is actually an integral part of the engine. The three pedals on the engine on ebay are actually Neutral, hi gear, low gear, reverse and transmission brake. Hi and low are the pedal on the left, the middle pedal is the reverse and the right pedal is the brake. Then the transmission your seeing in your frame mount behind all that. Are you confused yet. Good, Henry meant for young people to be confused when it came to Model T's. But hang on it'll make sense in about a year. Maybe. Possibly. There's a chance...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 11:19 pm:

Oh and to answer your question, yes the engine on ebay will work fine and the pedals will match the floor boards in your TT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 11:51 pm:

Mike may be right about 1925 pedals fitting the 1926 floorboard openings, but I'm going to check that tomorrow in the daylight because I have my doubts. The 1926 pedals are definitely wider, but I want to check the distances between the pedal shafts. I'm not sure whether they're the same or different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 01:30 am:

Floorboards are easy enough to cut from a plank of wood if you have to make some. Not sure if anyone pointed it out yet but the ignition coils are missing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:28 am:

Zach,

Welcome aboard! You can find some additional photos and information from Fred Miller’s “The hHstory of the Ford Ton Truck frame” [keep up the great work Fred – I would like to purchase a copy when it is published] at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/292809.html?1338493486 It can give you some clues to what year the frame is/was.

As others have mentioned the serial number should be on the top right or top left frame rail somewhere near the emergency brake cross shaft area. If you don’t find a stamped serial number on the top of one of the frame rails I would think that places your TT produced some time before Jan 1926 (they started numbering frames Dec 12, 1925 but it may have taken a little time before all the Branch Assembly plants were numbering all the frames) ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc25.htm where it says:
DEC 12, 1925 Acc. 94. Walter Fishleigh files, Ford Archives
"Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park."
Remember that while that first one was placed on the right hand side – later others were placed on either the left or right hand side – but always on the top frame rail.

Below is a photo Dennis Halpin posted of a car frame showing a serial number and the general location -- not you can see the emergency cross shaft in the photo as well as the exhaust pipe. The Ton Truck would be similar – on top of the frame left or right rail near the emergency cross shaft. You may need to use a brush to remove dirt etc. or it may not have one. Either way helps you date the frame.



Again, welcome aboard. Recommend you locate the local T chapter nearest you see: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 07:38 am:

Mike is right, the books are helpful, but my price is $11.00 not $15.00.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 11:16 am:

LOL, i love this. You guys are awesome. Reading you guys info is like an encyclopedia. I love this stuff. When i get home today i will have you a serial number for sure. That will hopefully answer any doubts about the year.

Mike..... Yes, i'm pretty confused about the shifting and the 2 transmissions, LOL. I grew up driving muncie 4 speeds. This is like Greek to me. I can see now i'm in for quite a learning curve.

kep_NZ..... Yes sir, i'm missing pretty much everything to make this truck run. As the pics show, the previous owner stripped the engine compartment in attempts to restore it and it never got put back or stayed with the truck.

I hope you guys will keep having patience with me as i'm pretty much ignorant when it comes to these model old trucks.

Thanks again
Zack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 01:13 pm:

This is important Zack.
DO NOT go nuts on the frame rail with a drill mounted wire wheel or sand paper start with a wire brush. Those numbers are only hand stamped and they may (or may not) be in a nice, neat, line.
Block sand the frame rail with a medium grade sand paper. All you're interested in doing is making it as smooth (not shiny) as you can. Then, take a black Magic Marker and liberally cover the frame rail in the area of my picture. Sand off the Magic Marker with something like 1000 grit and if you get lucky, you will have black, highlighted, numbers. :-)
Also, did you get a title with this thing? You're going to need some kind of a 'documentation number' to register it? If you can come up with the frame number, it will go a long way toward getting you through the DMV 'blues' you have in store for you.
We will be more than happy to help you with that as well. Many of us have had to deal with those 'bureaucrats' and it can get quite frustrating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 01:31 pm:

"I grew up driving muncie 4 speeds. This is like Greek to me".
Start forgetting everything you know about 'fixing cars'. Almost nothing is going to apply anyway.
There's no such thing as a stupid question here but you can make some really expensive mistakes if you don't ask first. You may get 10 different answers to your question but when you're working on a Model T, 9 of them are probably going to be correct.
I know, that doesn't make any sense right now but it will as you become a Model T 'authority' which by the nature of the the beast, you will, trust me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 02:17 pm:

Thanks again Dennis, I will follow your directions on finding the serial number. I am looking forward to building this truck as it will be a very good project for my dad and I.

In case some of you may be wondering, I'm 43 and Dad is 69. So, I'm trying to spend as much time as possible while he's still here and i hope he has many years left but life never makes any promises. This truck project will be something he and i can do at a pace that we can afford and make some memories along the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 02:29 pm:

That truck should be a fine project for the two of you. There is so much to unlearn and relearn when working with a Model T. There are enough similarities to lead you to think you understand and then so many unique things to keep you humble and a bit amazed. I slip into thinking it's all so simple a blacksmith could do it and then I'm amazed at how some of those simple things really aren't that simple and really work very well. Try to keep an open mind and understand that much of what you know won't be right as it applies to a T. Some day when you really get into it, think about the T transmission and what the mind(s) must have been like that came up with it. Some stuff is easy, that tranny isn't one of them.

Welcome to the world of no pumps for fuel, water, or oil. It's really intriguing.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 03:12 pm:

Thanks Walt. It does indeed look to be a adventure. I told Dad, even if we never finish it, it will still be awesome just to have in the shop to go sit and look at, LOL.

Looks like the EBAY engine go away from me. I was really hoping to get that one especially since the price was one that we can afford. I guess i should have spoke up sooner. Maybe next time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 04:19 pm:

Zack, you didn't mention what (if any) paperwork you have. Model T's were titled by the engine number. It wasn't until around mid 26, before the engine number was also stamped on the frame.
IF you have a frame number and IF you have corresponding paperwork with that number on it, you're well on your way to registering it. Also then it doesn't matter what your engine number is anymore, especially since you are starting out with no engine/transmission in the first place.
I'm not familiar with Texas DMV laws but many here are. Get a start on the paperwork NOW. There are many here who can tell you about the frustrations of having a Model T they are ready to drive, only to find out they have months (or more) of frustration ahead, with people who most likely don't even know what a Model T is, to put plates on it.
let me give you an example. My 1927 Tudor still had the original engine in it. The title number, the frame number and the engine number all matched. BUT..... It was titled as a '1928 Model T'. There's no such thing as a 1928 Model T, Model T production ceased in 1927. 1928 was the first year of the Model A. Well, I was naive enough to think that this simple 'typo' would be easy to correct when I went to register the car in my name right? WRONG. Through the help of the guys here who have had to deal with these DMV 'bureaucrats' before, I was able to trace my car back to Georgia (where it WAS registered as a 1927) and PROVE that the Florida DMV screwed-up the title. You would think that would have been the end of it but no, it wasn't, "they don't make mistakes like that, they are professionals".
To make a long story short, it was only after they figured out the car was owned by the Supervisor of the Sarasota County Department of Motor Vehicles when the error was made, that they were "happy to make the correction".
I'm not trying to discourage you, the guys here will help you get through whatever you need to do to get a valid title on it but forewarned is forearmed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 04:46 pm:

Dennis..... Sorry, no sir, i have no paperwork at all. I built this 23 T roadster last year and i actually found an original title that i used and the registration process worked flawlessly. It was probably not the best way to do it but it worked out very well. I will also as you have suggested start working on the registration in the coming weeks. I hate dealing with the DMV, LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 05:43 pm:

Well it turns out I'm not crazy, at least about the pedals.


Here are the pre-26 pedals and floor boards.


Here are the 26-27 pedals with the same floor boards. The reverse and brake pedals are the same distance apart, but the low pedal is way over yonder.

What practical difference does this make? None. You can make floor boards to fit whichever engine/transmission you use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:09 pm:

Thanks Steve, that is great to know. I will keep this in mind should i need to make a change depending on this engine i wind up with.

Here are some more shots of the transmission, front and rear cab mounts and serial number. Please let me know what you guys think. The serial number appears to be 14031086


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:10 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:16 pm:

The transmission looks like it says "Chicago" with word "mark" in the middle. It also appears to say something like "mfg. Bryan"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:19 pm:

Something else is troubling me. The floor has been cut to allow for the transmission to clear. This doesn't appear to be any type of factory mod. I assume this transmission was added later or something. Thoughts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:21 pm:

That's a very good trans


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:27 pm:

To the best of my knowledge the factory didn't install any auxiliary transmissions. They were aftermarket, installed by others. Modifying the floor boards for it is only a minor item. For most (including your Chicago) the drive shaft, driveshaft housing and both rear radius rods must be shortened. Alternatively, in some cases the chassis was lengthened instead. I can't get a good enough look at your overall truck to tell which was done to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:43 pm:

Zack,

The number 14031086 is listed as Jul 28, 1926 in the engine assembly log (ref page 535 of Bruce (rip) “Model T Ford.” “IF” the engine was assembled at the River Rouge (main engine assembly location at that time) and “IF” the Ton Truck was assembled in the Highland Park Plant located near by – it could have been produced within a few days of Jul 18, 1926. The engine would only have to be shipped a short distance. “IF” the truck assembled at another location, shipping the engine probably would have taken a little longer. And finally some of the engine numbers were shipped to the Branch Assembly location to be stamped on an engine assembled at the Branch Plant. “IF” that was the case it could have been a month or even longer (or less) before it was assembled into the truck.

No USA factory assembled truck came with an auxiliary transmission. They were all aftermarket units.

Have fun with your Dad. Some of my fondest memories are working on and driving Model Ts with my Dad.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 06:49 pm:

Zack,
The factory issued TT had a std gear ratio of 7.25 to 1 when in high gear. Mine cruises at about 15, with a top end of 17-18 mph. That's one reason there were lots of aux transmissions. I have Muncies,(don't know about Chicago), and they have a reverse, an underdrive (for heavy loads), direct drive, and overdrive (for returning home empty at higher speeds). When you see a T engine, most will have the T trans attached to it--you see, the crankcase covers the bottom of both the engine and transmission, so, unless you're buying a block, the trans will probably be with it. There was also a higher speed worm and ring optional from Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 07:58 pm:

Zack,

The Chicago transmission is an aftermarket unit and a good one that provides under, direct and overdrive. The ones I have seen have a straight, square shaft on the engine end of the trans. That square shaft sticks out 3 inches or so from the front face of the transmission. Yours seems to have a different input shaft setup that would require an additional piece to go from the Chicago into the T engine/trans assembly. Possibly someone else on the forum may be able to provide insight? If this is a one off conversion on the Chicago, it may be possible to replace just the input shaft on the transmission. All of this assumes of course that the rest of the transmission is in reasonable/usable condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 07:59 pm:

Wow, That is really neat finally confirming the year model. Thanks for the research.

I'm hoping to find a 26 model engine so at least the date will be correct.

Does this tranny and year model make this truck any more valuable?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:07 pm:

Walt, the transmission shifts good and seems fairly tight. Of course the gears aren't turning so i have no proof all the gears are good. I'm hoping it is usable.

Would i be better off not using this transmission and just stick with the stock T transmission?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:38 pm:

If the Chicago is in good useable shape by all means keep it in the truck. The biggest drawback of TT's and the reason they are typically not too valuable is because of their slow speed. The overdrive in the auxiliary transmission moves it up to an acceptable speed and makes it significantly more valuable, at least in my opinion.

Also note my above post. Almost undoubtedly your drive shaft, drive shaft housing, and rear radius rods have been shortened to accommodate the Chicago. Removing it and using just the planetary will mean you must restore each of those components to original length and strength. Unless the Chicago is totally toast, I'd keep it where it is (after taking it apart cleaning it and replacing any worn out or damaged parts).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:43 pm:

Zack,
I'm surprised no one suggested the best T engine builder in Texas located just south of you in College Station - Ross Lilleker. Get your engine from him; and get the correct engine for your C Cab. The one not only with the wider pedals like Steve showed you above but, more importantly, with a wider transmission brake drum for the heavier Ton Truck weight. I have one top wood kit left for a C Cab. Its assembled and has San and Seal applied. Send me a email gwhouse2@peoplepc.com. I'm north of Lockhart, TX. And, by the way, call my friend Ed Messenger in Longview for help. He'll be at Chickasha trying to sell his gorgeous '15 roadster until about Saturday


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:12 pm:

Hap beat me to identifying the year for you.
I built a T Bucket Roadster many years ago. Like yours, there was nothing 'T' about it but the name. I cut the pickup bed off my fiberglass body because mine had an aluminum Coors beer keg for a gas tank. Mine was powered by an old 392 Hemi, with a Pete & Jake's adapter hooking it up to a Chevy 2 speed Powerglide, Ford 9" rear end.
Now, back to your truck. If you got it locally, see if you can get the last owner to write you a Notarized Bill of Sale with that frame number on it. That would go a long way toward getting you a 1926 Ford TT title for it.
You have already built what is known as a 'Specially Constructed Vehicle', so you already know some of the 'tricks of the trade' when it comes to the DMV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

Thanks George, I will drop you an email tomorrow for sure. I have found another engine i'm looking at. It is a 1926 and has a complete rebuilt engine and trans. I will update you once i talk to the guy who has this engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

Actually, Jul 28 1926 is 'technically' a 27. My mistake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:44 pm:

Great info. Thanks again Dennis.

I've having a hard time explaining this transmission situation to dad. He is also a muncie 4 speed guy and is not understanding how this auxillary transmission works, LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:57 pm:

It just dawned on me but i believe we're missing the upper windshield frame as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:12 pm:

Can you guys tell me what size wheels are on the front and back? The fronts on others i've seen look bigger and skinnier than the rears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

The rears look like 6.00 20 or maybe 6.50 20. From what I can see the ones on the front are not T wheels and are anybody's guess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:22 pm:

From Page 342 of the Model T Encyclopedia: MODEL YEAR DATES: August 1925 to August 1926. Wednesday, July 28, 1926 is in the 1926 model year, not 1927. BUT, on Monday July 19 "Holley Vaporizer on all production." So even though it's still considered 1926 production, it has the 1927 carburetor. Ford's practice of making running changes at odd times tends to complicate things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:44 pm:

LOL, these old T's are amazing and the history behind them is even better.

The front now are just some old junker wheels we used to get it home. The two back are the only originals we have. We are needing a full set but i need to make sure of the wheel sizes before i start hunting. Thanks,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:37 am:

Zack,

The normal Model T transmission has 2 speeds forward and 1 in reverse. Then you add the 3 speed (under direct and over) transmission behind the standard T trans. You now have 6 speeds forward and 3 in reverse. Model T low paired with under drive will give you all the power in the world and be slow enough to walk beside if you have the standard truck rear axle ratio. Model T direct and overdrive will let you do 30 or a tick better on a good day. Considering this beast was intended to carry a load and was probably frequently overloaded, the low gearing was probably fine.

Some folks go so far as to add a Ruckstell 2 speed rear axle - Now you get 12 speeds forward and 6 in reverse. Ain't that grand?

Never mind the 3 reverse speeds, you never want to go very quick in reverse in a Model T, the steering is only too happy to flop full left or right with the reverse camber if you aren't careful.

Model T's are great stuff but they do have ways that can bite you if you aren't careful. :-)

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:13 am:

I was going to go into explaining what the auxillary transmission does but Walt did a pretty good job of it.
Since your dad is only 2 years older than I am, try this. I'm actually a Hot Rodder but these guys put up with me because I didn't turn my 27 Tudor into a Flathead V8 powered Hot Rod, like I had planned to when I bought it. Tell him to think of this combination as if it was a Muncie 4 speed with 2nd and 3rd gear stripped, hooked to the engine and another Muncie hooked up behind it. With the front Muncie in low, you have 4 torque gears on the back Muncie but no 'top end' speed. With the front Muncie in high, you have no torque but you have a much better 'top end' on the back Muncie. Does that make sense?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 09:38 am:

hahaha, thanks for the explanation guys. I will pass this on to him.

I still have a question myself though. If you are in 2nd (high) gear (stock T trans.) with the brake lever all the way forward, how do you shift the Chicago box without a clutch? I guess he and I both are a bit confused as to how the shifting works for the Chicago. Sorry if you have already explained this, sometimes it takes me 2-3 times to "get it", LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 09:54 am:

You actually get 7 forward choices and 5 reverse choices with the Muncie:

Forward: 1/L, 1/H, 2/L, 2/H, 3/L, 3/H & R/R (makes you go forward REALLY slow).

Reverse: 1/R, 2/R, 3/R, R/L, & R/H.

With a 2 speed rear end you have 14 forward and 10 reverse choices, which of course you'd probably never use all of them. :-) :-)

My TT has a Muncie and I usually just use 2/L, 2/H, and 3/H. To back up I usually use R/L.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 10:18 am:

You need 21 in front wheels and 21 in split rims and the rears you have are 600 x 20 in but someone may have installed 650 x 20 in tires on to your old rims, your back wheels can be cleaned up and rewooded by Johnson's in Oklahoma, no one makes them new, I presently have a pr of NOS 20 in rear wheels, never had hubs installed, I Have NOS hubs, used drums and used faceplates, and can get new hub bolts for them, I'm asking 1000.00/pr plus UPS and insurance for them. They are Firestone brand. I have used 600 x 20 in snap ring style rims also 300.00 ea, so if yours are salvageable use what you have and just rewood the rears and clean them up danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 10:40 am:

That is great John, Thanks. I will talk this over with Dad.I think someone must have change the fronts. The two extra rims/hubs we have are exactly like the rears as far as being a split rim. I will try to get pics posted of what we have that came with the truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 11:29 am:

I suppose I could have gone into split shifting Henry, but I was trying to make this all less complicated, just for explanation purposes.
Zack you're dad is my age, did he ever serve in Viet Nam (like I did), or in the military? Has he ever driven a truck with a 5 speed trans and a 3 speed rear end?
If so, it's kind of like that, only you're doing it with a 'non-syncro' (crash box) transmission and no clutch. It's all about matching gear speeds between shifts (with a hand throttle, to boot).
You'll both get the hang of it eventually but you're going to wish this TT had a 'Turbo 350' in it, before you're done.
You just flat can't drive a TT on the road these days, without that auxiliary trans. it's just too slow. It's a blessing $$$ for you it was left behind when the engine/trans was pulled out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 11:47 am:

Dennis, yes sir. Dad serve in Vietnam aboard an Aircraft carrier in the Navy. I'm sure he was very limited to the type of truck your referring to but he has driven some old HD trucks years ago.

I think once he and i both understand the concept of how this truck shifts we will be ok. I may even have to find a local person to come by and teach us, LOL.

On the wheels, i have 2 calls out to the Amish people in hopes they can restore these wheels without it costing me a fortune. Does anyone here have any thoughts or ideas about using the Amish people to rebuild these wheels?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:01 pm:

Tell your dad "Welcome Home Brother", for me. I was in the Air Force on a C-130 over there in 66-67.
'Beans & Bullets in one direction, :-) Body Bags in the other'. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:04 pm:

Yes, the Stutzmans have a great reputation for excellent work at reasonable prices.

Stutzman Wheel
33656 County Rd 12
Baltic, OH 43804
(330) 897-1391

I made some new wheels for my touring, and bought spokes for two wheels from them for $152 (that includes shipping).

The front wheels on a TT are regular T wheels. It sounds like you may have something else. If so you can make the right ones yourself with the Regan spoke press, which is a DIY piece of equipment that's easy and cheap.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:05 pm:

When shifting the Muncie "on the fly" I do use the clutch. Matching engine/gear/road speeds is very important as Dennis said, but I also just press the low/high pedal about half way down to what would be the "neutral" position when shifting and it helps a lot, once the thing is fully warmed up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:33 pm:

I will tell him what you said Dennis, thanks.

I did just talk to Mr. Stutzman. He is going to completely rebuild my wheels (once i find the correct front wheels) for $175.00 each. He is super nice and i really enjoyed speaking with him. What do you guys think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:38 pm:

The price is reasonable, and he'll do a great job. I've seen lots of comments by people who were delighted with his work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 01:46 pm:

That sounds great Steve. Now if i can find a couple nice standard T front wheels i'll be all set, LOL.

Henry, that is what i was wondering, thanks for clarifying. I was wondering at what point i would shift the Chicago once i was driving. So once rolling, i would depress the clutch/drive pedal about halfway to neutral and then shift the Chicago, push the pedal all the way down and i'm good, correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 02:17 pm:

Zack,

Others may have differing opinions, but I do NOT normally go from 2/H to 3/L. I start out (flat land, no cargo) in 2/L, then 2/H, then 3/H. It works pretty well for me, but I think every driver of a rig like this needs to just experiment a little and see what works best for YOU. I find that attempting a 2/H to 3/L shift doesn't work too well because the final (engine to wheel rev) ratios are too close to the same. A lot of the gear choice combinations are perhaps useful on a grade and/or with a heavy load, but for modern street driving you need to see what gets you up to speed quickly and without excessively straining anything.

Another choice that actually works pretty well is H/1, then H/2, then H/3. I know it sounds odd to start from a stop in planetary high, but the auxiliary transmission 1st is a low gear, so it works OK, at least for me. It saves transmission bands too, but can be hard on the clutch if done to hard and too often.

Also, a big part of what will work best for you will be determined by how well (or not) your engine is running. Another major factor will be whether you have a set of low or high ratio gears in the rear end, which I doubt if you have discovered yet.

Have Fun!! Working through all this stuff can be a great experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 02:49 pm:

"i would depress the clutch/drive pedal about halfway to neutral and then shift the Chicago, push the pedal all the way down and i'm good, correct?"

NO, release (take your foot off), the low/high pedal (if you are accelerating).
Don't get too concerned about all of this right now. Once you have a running TT and you get the chance to play with it a little, it will all come to you naturally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 04:03 pm:

hahaha, i love this stuff. It looks like it may be a challenge but it will be fun regardless.

Thanks again to everyone for all your help. I will keep posting as things come up and we make progress.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 05:33 pm:

A couple of comments, Zack,

1. Walt B mentioned it above in this tread (March 17 - 3:27 pm) but I'd like to emphasize the importance of adding auxiliary brakes to your truck. Although it appears that whoever installed the Chicago did not consider it important since there aren't any, I can tell you that I would NOT DRIVE my TT with the Muncie (or any brand auxiliary transmission) absent good working auxiliary brakes.

2. You have received a great deal of varied input on this tread. When I was at your stage with my truck I realized that I needed to make a list of all the things I MUST do to get it running safely and reliably, and another list of the things I wanted to do to it. You could easily start pretty good lists by going back over this thread and summarizing items.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 07:25 pm:

Henry......... Yes sir. I have received a huge amount of great info. I am going to take everyone's comments and make notes and a parts list.

I'm currently talking with a man who has a complete (rebuilt) 1926 engine & transmission. He also has 2 front fenders that are mint, coil packs, wiring, ignition switch, bezel, new amp gauge, excellent steering column with steering wheel, headlights, hand crank, timing cap and cam idler (not sure the proper name), exhaust pipe and muffler and plug wires.

He wants $2300 for everything and i can drive to pick it all up. Does this price sound reasonable?
The engine was rebuilt by Texas T and has never been started.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike peterson on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 07:44 pm:

dont want to rain on your parade, fixing it up is a great idea, but now put a pencil to it, put the price u paid for what u have, plus what u said u have found, now add tires, wheels, interior, windsheild,paint, the small stuff u dont think of , time, rad. starter, gen., hope it works out for u, but be careful, its a time and money pit, not being mean just honest.sometimes its easier and cheaper to buy a running driver, then building one from parts later on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 08:12 pm:

Mike,

I totally agree, the most cost effective way to own a Model T is to buy one that is already done. Even if you don't count the time, it's a losing financial proposition to restore a car.

I poked computers for a paycheck, I play with my cars for enjoyment.

It seems like Zach is into this as a project with his Dad that they will both enjoy. Sounds like a worthwhile way to spend ones time and money.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 09:36 pm:

You guys make a very valid point. We are basically in this for something to do and to share a common interest. Dad and I have both restored other vehicles including the little red roadster above. He and I both are very limited on what we can spend on this hobby so it will be a lengthy process but more importantly he and I can spend time together.

Not to get into a big emotional thing but my dad never really spent much time with me when i was a kid. Now that he is an older man now, he regrets not spending time with me. So, having said all that, this truck will once again give me and him some time together that will help us bond more and more for all those lost years. I love my mother and father more than anything and they are getting older. I know one day they will be gone and i don't want any regrets. I want to remember the times when me and dad spent those hours working on this old truck long after he's gone. Money is truly an issue but not the purpose. Even if the old truck never runs, dad and i can sit in the shop and just look at it and dream, LOL.

Mike, Walt..... You gentlemen have made perfect sense and i agree with you guys but this is more a priceless "father/son" thing than anything else. I never had a Grandfather so i lost out on that but i'm trying to make up for it with dad. Odds are by the time the truck is complete dad will not attempt to drive it. He told me tonight that it will be pretty much up to me to make this happen. So, that is fine by me, he will be there right beside me every step of the way though and that's what counts. Dad's eyesight, hearing and motor skills have greatly diminished in recent years. Is getting disability from the Navy now and he is physically not able to endure long time periods of working on stuff like this anymore. I am hoping to get this truck completed and at least take him for a ride while he's still here.

Thanks again to you guys for you much appreciated input and wisdom. I really appreciate you all. Your guidance and knowledge is very important to me and dad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 11:16 pm:

Zack

I never had a grandfather either. I think it would be worth the effort to find someone down in your neck of the woods that owns a truck and is willing to give both of you a ride in it. That way your father can say he at least rode in a truck. Better now than farther down the road in the event he passes before you have the truck ready. I hope that he is able to do both.

I wish I had belonged to a club before I bought my first T, but that is history. Now it is costing me. T owners are great and almost always willing to give a ride, especially to someone else who has a T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:38 am:

Zack, my real dad crashed his crop duster and died when I was 7. My mom married a 240lb WW2, Army MP with the nickname 'One Punch Robinson', when I was 10. I made his life miserable all through my teens but he never gave up on me. T thank God every day that my step dad lived long enough for me to get around to telling him how much I loved him and how important he was in making me what I am today.
If those are TT parts you're talking about above, grab em. My 27 Tudor was an original, running, 'survivor' (right down to the key for the door lock) when I bought it for $5,000. but that was thousands (and thousands) of dollars ago. It didn't 'need' anything, except a complete rebuild, of course.

I will NEVER get the money I have in it, out of it if I ever chose to sell it but that's not the point. I didn't buy it as an 'investment', I bought it to drive and enjoy, which I do, as often as I can. :-) My step dad didn't live long enough to take a ride in it. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 02:06 am:

Zack, I just sent you an e-mail with some helpful hints on how to navigate the forum and some non Model T stuff. Hope you don't mind.
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:30 am:

Dave/ Dennis.... Thanks for sharing your stories. Yes, it is a labor of love and one that will have great satisfaction in the end.

Dennis, yes sir. I did receive your email and i appreciate you pointing out those things as i'm not real forum savvy, LOL.

I hope you guys who are going to Chickasha have a great and safe trip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 06:01 pm:

Wow. I go out of town for a couple days. I come back, it takes a few days to "catch up" on the forum, and missed all this? I just now got to it.
A couple points I would like to add.

The "Chicago" transmission. Vic Sala, one of the Hall-of-Fame greats of model T speedsters liked the Chicago transmission above all the other auxiliary transmissions made for model Ts. It wasn't until his last few years that he couldn't seem to find good ones, only junk (but he was picky about their condition). I happen to have one that is in very poor condition. After studying mine, I found they have a serious flaw in their design.
If they are in good condition, they are great! Vic said nothing else shifted as easily. That was one of the reasons he liked them best. If the upper gear line is properly adjusted and properly centered to the cluster gear below, they are tough and will last a long time provided they are not abused by gear grinding. Their flaw is that they don't have a true "pilot" shaft/pin and bearing. The input and output shafts run between three tapered roller bearings. If those bearings are not properly adjusted (proper "pre-load"), under load and torque, the gears will push themselves out of line and cause the gears to wear crooked and fast. That appears to be the main reason so many Chicago transmissions are either very good or very bad.
The main reason I bring this up, is that you should pull the top off of the Chicago and look closely to see (if you can tell) whether it looks to be good or not. This will affect some decisions you make concerning restoration of the drive line.
Unfortunately, all the different after-market transmissions are a different length. That affects the needed length for the torque tube and drive shaft. If I recall correctly, the Muncie and the Chicago may be 1/2 inch difference. However I do not recall which is longer (and I could be mistaken, it might be the Warford). The previously mentioned Jumbo Giant is the shortest, but has a front coupler problem. In any event, there may or may not be a simple solution if you need to make a change.
If your Chicago does not look good, contact me directly with details. My piece of junk does have a few good parts, and I could make you a really good deal on them.

Regardless of the condition of your Chicago, I would definitely use an auxiliary transmission with an overdrive. They make the truck trickier to drive. That just takes a little instruction and a bit of practice. They also make the truck much more enjoyable when you don't not take it out because it is too slow for where you need to go.

As to driving it. Mostly deal with that later. However I will go into a point barely touched on above.
The throttle. Model T originally had only a hand operated throttle lever (right one below the steering wheel). An auxiliary transmission complicates that. After-market accessory foot throttles were and are common.
Most T people using auxiliary transmissions will tell you to put a foot throttle on it. I disagree with that. Always do your shift under controlled and safe timing. I give the steering wheel a "bear hug" with my left arm and work the hand throttle with my left hand while using my right hand to shift the transmission. Operating the throttle with your hand gives much better control of the engines rpm. It makes it easier to match the road, gear, and engine speeds. It is the main reason I can do some of my shifting without using the clutch while driving and usually not be able to hear one gear touch another. Bragging, maybe. But it is the truth.

Most of this you do not need to worry about until the restoration nears ready to drive. But you need to add it all to your planning.

I can be wordy, can't I. Sorry about that.
Welcome to the affliction! Model Ts tend to attract the more intelligent people of the world. Like you. Model Ts seem to help those people find their way to better understandings of the world. I do not know why this is. But it sure seems to be true.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george ross jr , Trenton Ga on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 06:34 pm:

i have a engine with trans out of an tt sitting in my back yard not sure if anything is wrong with it other than needs rebuilt it was not stuck when i pulled out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 08:21 pm:

Thanks so much Wayne. Like the others, your input is very much appreciated. I will make notes on your transmission info. Once i remove the top i will take several up close shots of the internals and send to you. I hope luck is on my side and it will be usable. As you said, closer to completion i will will have to find someone who can teach me how to drive it and shift it properly. Thanks again

George, I just purchased a rebuilt engine and transmission but i still may be interested in yours. Can you drop me a Pm with your asking price?

Thanks
Zack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 08:23 pm:

One other thing, Dad is really struggling with the flat bad on this truck. He keeps talking about wanting a traditional pickup bed. Are those reproduced or how hard are they to find?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 09:44 pm:

Gentlemen, This thread is getting really long. I have started a continuation of this called "Zack's C-Cab Project". Please keep posting and offering suggestions and ideas.

Thanks
Zack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:23 pm:

Zack what you use on the TT is a express bed, longer then a T pickup box, as they are too short, There is one at Chickasha that Stan Howe has there for sale from Montana, he's with John Steele also from Montana, both good friends of mine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shane lockard on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 06:13 pm:

Zack I am a newbie too. I bought a 25 Tudor in july. I don't know anything about the auxiliary transmissions but my suggestion is don't worry about shifting it until you get used to the ford transmission and a hand throttle. If I read this right it has a direct drive. That's where I would start. There are a lot of things going on all at one time for someone who has never driven one without adding more to worry about. I was in my neighbors yard before I knew it the first time I went into high gear. I was nearing the end of my driveway and being a newbie I pushed the pedal to the floor like a modern car. Needless to say the transmission brake didn't stop the car when the throttle isn't closed and its in low. I ended up pulling the handbrake lever halfway back before I hurt anything luckily it all worked out and I didn't crash into anything. Funny how when you read about how stuff works and then try to do it panic sets in and your brain quits working. I am sure I'm not the only one either after lurking here for quite a while. Sounded like garage doors are a nice target. T's are fun and if you can find someone close to take you and your dad for a ride take them up on it. Enjoy the time with your dad and make memories. That's part of the reason I bought mine. I am a little younger than you and I thought it would be something I could enjoy with my dad too. Fun watching him drive it the first time but atleast I had a little experience under my belt to help him


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 07:55 pm:

Hey Shane, Thanks for sharing your info. I am going to find someone local for sure to give me some driving lessons. I have to learn the technique and i want someone who has a lot of experience to show me, LOL. I would hate to spend all this time and money only to crash it. How about posting up some pics of your T? I love checking out everyone else's rides.

John, Can you PM me those guys phone number? I would sure like to talk to them.

Thanks Guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 09:38 pm:

Zack I sent you a private email, don't dilly around with it, as the meet is officially over sat a.m.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 10:32 pm:

Ok Steve, How long did you work on those floor boards to make them look different. C'mon buddy spill it. The one chance I have to sound Model T intelligent and you pull this stunt.
Let this be a lesson to you Zack. Never trust Steve to have your back when you start talking like you know what you're doing and really don't. Steve, I don't know when and I don't know how, but someday, somehow I'll return the favor. Bahahahahahaha!

Now because of this little stunt that Steve pulled you all know why I didn't stay at Chickasha. Once I saw Steve there, I knew there wasn't a chance for me to have any credibility and I drove back to Minnesota where it was warm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 02:10 am:

Mike G,
How does it go? ROFL? Rolling On Floor Laughing? Thank you. I needed that.

shane l,
Also very good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 05:02 am:

Zack, as was posted before, that input shaft on your auxiliary transmission is a bit odd. I have a couple of Chicago Mark E transmissions, and have seen a few more, and they all connect directly to the "T" output shaft, just like the driveshaft does. In other words, there is no adapter used. The one on your trans looks very similar to the ones used on the Jumbo Giant transmissions. There may have been a change in design from when they were first introduced, or maybe someone changed yours for whatever reason. Regardless, it is interesting. Keep us informed on what you find out about it and your progress. The brace under your trans is identical to the one on my TT that is on my profile picture. It has the high speed rearend and with the overdrive, cruises very nicely at 30-35 MPH. Good luck with your project. I have a few TT parts, if you need something, let me know. Maybe I can help. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 09:20 am:

Thanks David. I appreciate it. I too am now confused about the transmission hook up. I just got back from a 1200 mile round trip to pick up the following:

completely rebuilt engine/transmission (done by Texas T's).
pair of headlight (missing one lense and ring)
rebuilt steering column with a very nice wheel
4 rebuilt coil packs (wood boxes)
new ammeter gauge
old exhaust pipe with original nut
Pair of near perfect front fenders
Original hand crank handle
original horn
There are a few other odds and ends but it was definitely worth the trip. I'm beat today though.
While on the way i stopped to see what i consider an old friend (pic below).







Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 09:22 am:

The Chicago has a rectangular shaped coupler, the Model T has a Square hole. I'm not sure how this is going to connect.

I will try to post pics tomorrow so everyone can see better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 10:20 am:

What I can see of your input shaft in the Chicago looks surprisingly like a Jumbo Giant trans?
jumbo
If thatīs what it really looks like, then you'll need a coupler looking something like the scarce two piece Jumbo coupler.
See this post on the other club's site for more info on the Jumbo coupler: http://modelt.org/discus/messages/2/42922.html?1361438420 You can check your measurements and compare if a Jumbo coupler will fit. If not, modify the drawing and find a friend with a nice machine shop ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 10:43 am:

Here is what mine looks like. Thanks for the link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 01:51 pm:

The guy also included this book with everything else. This book appears to be full of really good info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 08:59 pm:

While you're at it Zack, most of us read and post on the Model T Ford Club International site too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 09:16 pm:

Cool, i will check that out. Thanks,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 09:06 am:

The MTFCI site runs much slower than this one does, I really don't know why but sometimes (as above), you will find information there you don't find here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zack Methvin on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 11:40 am:

For all you who have been following me on this project. Please pick this thread up on my new thread called "Zack's C-Cab Project"

You guys have all been great and super helpful. Thanks again to everyone for the kindness you've shown.


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