Hood not fitting

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Hood not fitting
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:07 pm:

i have 1924 fordor and hood doesnt sit right,how do i check to see if its the right hood.what to do........trying to post pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:15 pm:

Hi Kenny,

A picture would be great, but maybe we can narrow it down for you.

Is it too tight/loose a fit between the firewall and rad? Or is it a height issue?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:29 pm:

tight at top loose at bottom its crooked.from firewall to rad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:36 pm:

Loosen the radiator support rod a tad and then try shimming up the front body mounts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:52 pm:

Wrong hood radiator body combination?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 08:56 pm:

Is the frame straight? It is not uncommon for the frame to be bent on a Model T.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:18 pm:

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:24 pm:

more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:27 pm:

I think that Jack has your answer.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:30 pm:

Are you sure the car is a '24? I had a '17 roadster with the same problem. Shim up the front of the body or the radiator is the high radiator and should be a low radiator. But if it is a 4dr. it has to be a high radiator car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 09:54 pm:

It is a 24 cowl,so he's got that right.Try what I told you,and you may have to add a shim to middle body brace to keep it level.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:05 pm:

once you start shimming body do not be surprised if doors do not shut right? Been there done this! You start on one area and it effects others, take your time and let it settle in before making adjustments to door hinges.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:15 pm:

new to model t.where are they located on car.just where body and frame are bolted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rion Schulze on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:26 pm:

Richard said since it's a 4 door it has to be a high radiator? I'm confused with that. I have a 4 dr titled as a 25, but has a low cowl/radiator. that gap seems pretty traumatic, not very subtle, did something major happen while driving it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:45 pm:

Rion;
Henry did the change in '23 from low to high radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:24 am:

Looking at the photo, that amount probably is frame sag and then do ask Jack suggests...but before you do...

Take a look at your radiator mounting arrangement. Having a radiator too high does the same thing to a degree. Done right, the radiator sets itself height wise, but boy have I seen a bunch shimmed here and there, spacer here and there, etc. Here's a guide on what is right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 08:51 am:

That's where I was going to suggest going first too George.
Kenny, do you know if the radiator has been removed for any reason recently? There are 2 different sets of mounting studs, the 26-27 uses a different set.
Take a look inside the frame below the radiator. If the radiator support studs look a lot newer than everything around them, start there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 10:00 am:

Kenny, my 24 Fordor had the same problem only more it was a sagging frame that was causing the problem, we took the body off and checked front to back and side to side and then checked the "X" the frame was sagging in the motor mount area, some chains and bottle jacks corrected the problem. If you need to shim the body ,go to a alignment shop and ask for shims, they gave me a mixed size double handful, they are easier to use than washers.I had pictures but i had a crash and the new operating system can't read my backup discs.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 11:44 am:

The best way, but hardest would be to take off the body and straighten the frame.

The easier way would be to start by taking out the bolts holding the body to the frame and starting with the hood raise the front of the body to the point where the hood fits correctly, then work back raising or lowering at each bolt location to make the doors fit correctly finishing with the back of the body. You might also need to modify the firewall to frame brackets in order to raise the front of the body enough to fit the hood.

If it were my car, I would do the easier way until such time as I did a body off restoration, then with the body off straighten the frame. Note: even with the frame straightened, it might still be necessary to do some adjustments at the body bolt locations.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:32 pm:

My touring car has this same problem with the hood not lining up. I measured the frame and it is sagged 3/8" at the firewall. I also considered shimming the body - but there seems there is an issue with just trying to put shims under the body to raise it. The front of the body is bolted to the firewall. The firewall is bolted to the frame. I don't see how you can raise the body without raising the firewall, and I don't see how you can raise the firewall without doing something with the brackets. If I raise the front of the body 3/8" to make the hood line up, then the bolts on the firewall to frame brackets are going to be off 3/8". Also, the bottom of the hood will not be in line with the hood shelves - there will be a wider gap at the back than at the front. Not seeing how raising the body fixes anything - just creates additional problems elsewhere.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 12:59 pm:

Local fellow in FL had his '15 frame straightened with the body on, in a day.

Had exact same problem as pictured. A good frame guy will know what to do and how to do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Goldberg on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 02:02 pm:

I am very new to this myself, but had the exact same problem after accidently removing the hood and trying to set it back on. The dents at the bottom by the hood-latches would suggest that once upon a time the hood was properly aligned and it might just need a little readjusting to get it to sit flush.

The rod that runs along the top through the hinge can creep forwards or backwards in its track and get caught on something. In the photo, it looks like the top-front part (by the radiator cap) is sitting too high and isn't flush with the radiator. There should be a small cradle just under the hood at that spot where the rod normally sits, and if you can get the rod to do so, your alignment issues may improve -- at least mine did. You may have to push the rod (backwards) in a bit, or maybe it is easier to remove the hood and try re-setting it, attempting to rest the front end of the rod in the cradle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 02:14 pm:

As long as you can get to most of the bottom section of the frame where it is bent and have a torch, the frame can be straightened in the car.

The basic idea is that you heat a wedge shaped section of the frame on the side that needs to be shorter (the bottom in this case). Repeat till it is straight. Be careful that something is not set on fire, like the gas tank or oil.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 03:16 pm:

Kenny, by looking at the photos it appears the front of the hood is not set down on the shroud correctly. Adjust your hood rod out so the radiator leans forward more. The front of the hood should set flush with the shroud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 03:46 pm:

Maybe the arc of the hood top panels don't quite match the curvature of the radiator shroud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 04:02 pm:

Kenny
It appears that your front hood hinge pin is not mated properly! Check to see if they are inside each other. Then if so then your radiator is more than likely too high and you need to follow George's neat diagram of assembly. Then if all of that checks out then it IS either the body setting to low or it is the frame bent. Do everything in this order to find your solution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 05:21 pm:

can the leaf springs be shot.if i lift on driver side the hood goes back not good but better,if look at from front it leans to driver side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 08:45 pm:

It is hard to tell from the photos just how things line up due to the short focal length of the lens causing so much distortion. Can you shoot more pics standing well back and zooming your lens in? Shoot from the both sides in the middle of the hood so we can check for parallel lines. That will provide better perspective to check where the problem is. Just from what I can see it does look like the radiator is not far enough forward.

Whatever happens, please do keep us updated!

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 10:16 pm:

Kenny,

Take a piece of wood (like a 2x4) and clamp it vertically to the inside of the front cross member so the edge is touching the inside frame rail. Do the same on the rear cross member. Measure down from the top of the frame rail some dimension and put a mark on each of the boards. The actual dimension doesn't matter - you just need it low enough to clear everything under the car. Then stretch a string line between the two pieces of wood so it is on the mark on the pieces of wood. This will establish a line parallel to the top of the frame rail. Now you can measure at various points from the top of the frame rail to the string. The dimension should be the same the entire length of the frame. I'll bet that you will find that the frame has sagged right where the pan ears sit on the frame. That causes the firewall to sit lower than it should which moves the back of the hood down. This causes the bottom of the hood to move forward resulting in a gap at the firewall and overlapping at the radiator shell, which is exactly the condition you have.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:00 am:

Kenny,

I also think your frame has dipped. I have done body work for many years at home and have tie downs located in my work shop floor. Have straightened several model T frames using tie down straps or chains and a floor jack. The model T frame is very weak compared to later frames/uni-body construction. Do not use heat when straighting a model T frame that has saged.
If you have a strong open car trailer....that could work for pushing the frame back up. The frame usually sags at the fire wall where the rear engine mounts attach. Each frame rail can be pushed up seperately.....they do not need to be jacked up at the same time. If you are up to doing the job...start by first loosening all body/firewall bolts that attach to the frame. Remove the nuts holding the body and firewall bolts in place so the body and fire are free to float on the frame mounts. The frame must be pushed above the frame center line in order to bend the frame back in alignment. There is a lot of spring in a T frame which you will see when releasing the jack. You may need to push the frame up 2" above center line in order to get the frame back in alignment. Take your time and do not try to remove all the sag in one push. You need to develop a "feel" on how much the frame springs back before the yeld point is reached. A simple string can be used to determine how straight the frame is ....but keeping track of hood alignment is really what you are looking for.
I have used heavy duty car tie down straps to straighten a model T frame. The frame rail should be straped down (Attached to a trailer or tie down point) front and back just before where the cross members are riveted in place. There should be enough room to wrap a chain or strap around the rear frame rail with the body in place. Doing so up front may take some indenuity....such as attaching a chain using a bolt going thru the frame near the front cross member (Where fender iron attaches). With the frame rail tied down, carefully push up with a jack using a 4" x 4" wood block approx. 1' long placed under the frame centered below where the rear engine mounts are.
It is not Rocket science.....however, it may be a greater task than most are willing to do.
If you are worried about pushing the frame up too far......don't worry.....pile in enough people and it will bend back down SMILE!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 02:06 am:

If the frame is bent, here is another thread that covers straightening by heat shrinking or by brute force.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/123360.html
The link shows a method with a steel beam if you do not have tie downs. Both methods will work.

I've used heat to straighten a T frame and to straighten or add a camber to structural steel beams. Structural steel and Model T frames are not tempered and heating will not hurt them. Don't use heat shrinking on modern tempered steel truck frames. Even on modern auto frames, heat is allowed up to 1200F, a dull red glow.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Markham on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 03:54 am:

I have this same problem with my pie wagon but I have a bigger gap, I never thought about it being the frame, so according to one of the above threads the frame is straight the entire length of the vehicle?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 06:06 am:

John, the top side is straight. Here's a frame drawing showing the 1909-13 style, but all the measurements applies up to 1925 (the rear cross member became wider in 1913)
http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/FPIframe.pdf

The 26/27 frame is similar, but a lot has changed like an even wider rear cross member + the location & # of body mounting brackets: http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/Tech/FrameDiagram1926-27.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:03 am:

at the body mounts there is a warrant out rubber pieceswhat is supposed to be there


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:19 am:

Kenny,
The worn rubber support could very well be your problem. Originally there were no rubber supports, maybe someone tired to shim up the body??
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Goldberg on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:10 pm:

Kenny, do you have a photo looking directly down at the hood by the radiator cap?

When I took off the hood from my 1924 Tudor and placed it back on (incorrectly), it went from looking perfectly fine to looking just like yours, with the panels angled forward and rubbing up against the radiator. It was easy to fix once I figured out how the rod in the upper-hinge is supposed to fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 01:44 pm:

I agree with Mr. Goldberg, it looks like the hood just isn't sitting down onto the radiator correctly and that's what's causing the bad feng shui.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 03:41 pm:

I don't think it's the frame. Look at the gaposis between the forward portion of the hood and the hood shelf. Something is holding the hood too high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 03:52 pm:

need more


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 04:01 pm:

this


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 05:30 pm:

Looks like a tall radiator shell and a low cowl ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 05:55 pm:

A couple of Members already got it right.

I think your radiator is too tall you need the shorter one. I have seen this before.

//Hood


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 06:15 pm:

Even if not correct for that year


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 06:50 pm:

Kenny, If I'm not mistaken You pictures show a low firewall, I can't really tell if the radiator is the tall one though maybe you could tell. If that's a tall radiator that would be the obvious answer for the gaposis at the firewall and in the front. Now as for is the low cowl correct for your year that's not my specialty. Maybe you have a 23 as someone else pointed out or maybe your Fordor was made at the Low to High hood changeover? The reason I ask this is a bought a truck several years ago that a gentlemen had put together with a Low Cowl High Radiator configuration and it looked a lot like yours does.

Just thinkin..Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 07:28 pm:

Kenny thanks for the pictures they help a lot as if we are there with you!
The radiator is definitely wrong (to high) shown in your open hood photo! Look at the radiator support rod it is running uphill!!
You surely have a low coweled car or body. just my 2c. You need to measure from your frame to the top shelf edge of your hood former. I do not have one readily available though I do have a 19 car which would be a little similar but those parts are stored elsewhere, Also I have a 22 somewhere in all of my mess but the guys here can and will give you that dimension I am sure. Great bunch of guys!
Joe in Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 07:59 pm:

No, not a high radiator shell. If is was a high shell, then the gap between the hood and the hood shelf at the radiator would be about 1 1/2". The photo at the first of this thread shows about 1/2 to 3/4" gap there.

Here is a thread and photo to ID the shell:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/109384.html?1255119660



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 08:06 pm:

It's not a low cowl, it has the air vent on it. If I'm not mistaken(which is very possible), those were only on the high cowl/radiator closed cars. The radiator does look higher than the cowl, but I think it has something with the body mounts and-or frame, as has been suggested. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:34 pm:

Turn the hood around backwards and see if it fits any better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:36 am:

Just for kicks...found this in my photo file.

This was set up as a low former/low radiator car with a very nice 19-22 hood fit. The hood was in primer as were some other things and coupled with an obviously new Hack body the good gatekeepers of NJ-DMV wanted to place 'modified' on the title permanently. (They do try hard).

I said no-way and then we worked it out that they could accept a new hack body if everything else was ORIGINAL. "What's your definition of original?" Reply "Well those primer parts are obviously reproductions, they look too good! Now if they were the black parts we'd probably be OK with the unmarked title issue!"

Ahh, I'll be back! Ran home, took all of the primer parts off, replaced with parts from a disassembled '25. At least they were black and dirty! Had a little bit of a (te he) hood fit issue since the '25 was a 'high' so not a good pic for this topic but a pic is all they wanted at DMV...but...the bottom of the hood does rest on the hood shelf square, and because of the height difference in the front the center does do a bit of a nose dive and crowds the filler neck.

So do your measurements all around as others suggest, you may have some body sag mixed with 'mix-n-match' hood/radiator parts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Goldberg on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 01:15 am:

Kenny, those pics are indeed helpful. The photo looking down from above does seem to show the hinge rod properly seated at both ends. I'm considerably less confident of my original diagnosis. Still, it might be worth removing the hood, pushing that hinge rod forward within its track about half a centimeter, then placing it back in the slots.

Also, just noticed how there is no lining/lacing along the cowl-side shoulders where the hood rests. This would add a bit of height and maybe even things out -- might be enough to make a difference in alignment?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 10:19 am:

Don't know where to start.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 10:46 am:

everything I see points to frame sag. Either shim the body or straighten the frame, the cowl has to come up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 11:11 am:

Start by measuring the frame. You have a high cowl, a high firewall, a high hood and a high radiator. All of those parts are correct and should fit together properly. The problem is the frame has sagged. Sagging frames are common. The entire weight of the engine sits on the frame right at the firewall.

If the frame is sagged you have several options.
1. Live with it. That's what I'm doing with my car until I can get around to fixing it.
2. Straighten the frame. Not an impossible job, but not a simple job either.
3. Remove the bolts holding the firewall to the frame. Put shims under the body to level everything out.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rion Schulze on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 11:50 am:

If you remove the 4 bolts holding the firewall to the frame, then shim the body, how can you possibly refasten the firewall to the frame?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:05 pm:

I looked at the picture of the top view and it is wider in front than in back. I think Kep has it. The top is on backwards but the side panels are on frontward. The hinge rods need to be removed from the sides and the sides swapped then the entire hood turned around and it will fit.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:08 pm:

You won't be the only one who made that mistake! I did so myself on a 26. See the attached picture.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:14 pm:

"If you remove the 4 bolts holding the firewall to the frame, then shim the body, how can you possibly refasten the firewall to the frame?"

You can't. That's the point I made yesterday - you can't just shim the body up. If you do, you'll have to leave off the firewall to frame bolts, or modify the brackets. My first thought is to just leave them off as the firewall is bolted to the body and isn't going anywhere. But - the steering column is bolted to the firewall and there would be no support on the bottom of the firewall. So I would probably not just leave them off. If you go this route you will have to lengthen the brackets or something to that affect.

My choice would be to live with it unless you feel like undertaking the project to straighten the frame.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:15 pm:

The hood is not on backwards. The louvers open towards the rear which is the way they should be. It's just a perspective thing in the photo.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:29 pm:

And - the hood looks like it is assembled correctly. The passenger's side top panel has the hinge part at the very front and rear while the driver's side is indented. The rivets on the top on the passenger's side are towards the ends and the driver's side are towards the center. That's the same way my hood is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:32 pm:

Use Fred's measurement drawing and see exactly what you have. It just might be the wrong hood and it didn't bother a former owner. The bent frame guy's could be right too and I just can't get around the body shimming faction. Too much to alter. The steering post business really turns me off. The top down pic of the hood makes it look a little wonky anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 09:13 pm:

Don't know why I'm helping but for sure that's a high hood firewall, hood, hood shelf and radiator. To be out that far would mean the frame is grossly sagging to the point that the steering column wouldn't fit. Or it's bent to fit. But, then again, I don't see any firewall to frame brackets so maybe they wouldn't fit either. I think the frame is sagging at the rear motor mounts--The usual spot. It's rare to find one that isn't sagging but this one is really bad.

Remove the body and straighten the frame or nothing will fit right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 10:43 pm:

If I was you, I'd go with Tom to Steves house, Maybe he's got a hood that'll fit correctly. And if you need a set of floorboards he's got some of those too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Goldberg on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 02:29 pm:

Just a thought -- would replacing the lacing at the hood/cowl interface help in raising the back "shoulders" of the hood, flaring them more open and tipping the panels into better alignment? It would be simple and inexpensive to attempt, maybe with some felt padding too see if this could improve the aesthetics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 08:46 pm:

I think David's right the hood top is on backwards!!! The sides need to be unpinned and turn around the hood top and then reconnect the sides.
Other than this ?????? I don't know what the he_ is going on! That has to be it. Norman you got it too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 10:34 pm:

I think I'd have to agree. I didn't spot that before. Good catch to all three of you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 07:36 am:

Kenny, I would start by removing both the metal hood shelves so you can get at the frame rails. You need to set a square on the frame rail up against the firewall. The firewall should be perpendicular to the frame rail. I suspect it is not, and others have suggested the frame will be sagging. This will show as less than a right angle between the frame and firewall.

In my opinion, and others, you will be chasing your tail trying to get a correct fit unless the frame is straightened. I have never done this in the car, but using the open car trailer as a tie down frame is a great idea to jack it up straight again.

You will have to jack the frame way past where it needs to finish up, as the frame rails are tough. I have had occasion to jack the rails untill the BOTTOM of the rail is straight, before the top of the rail would hold straight when relaxed. I would not use heat, as it tends to make the bend too localised and the rest of the rail remains sagged. The rails can be done individually, the driver's side often being bent more than the passenger side.

You need to have all the welting around the radiator shell and fire wall in place next. They do play a significant role in a well fitted hood. Once they are in place each top panel can be formed to follow the welting. Be aware there is a slight flat spot next to the filler neck on the top panels. If this is not evident, then the hinge line will not be in the correct plane.

Once the top panels fit, then the side panels can be installed to see how much fun you still have ahead of you!

It does depend on how you feel about your car. If it is a driver which shows some experience, as your hood does, then close enough may be near enough. I like to get things right, so I spend a deal of time getting things aligned as best I can. Hood fitment, especially with the nickel plated brass radiator shells on the later cars, is critical in preserving prominent parts which are not being re-produced. Most brass shells have been damaged by ill fitting hoods which wear off the welt edges and worse.

Hope this helps.

allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 02:15 pm:

Kenny,
Allen is right. And so are the others who are TRYING TO HELP YOU OUT!!!
The thing that I saw that keyed me in earlier is that the hood support rod that you are showing, in I think, your 3rd photo shows a problem. The difference between the radiators, low and taller, I do not remember but one of the members here said about 1-1/2 inches. I think it was 1-3/8 but too long ago for me to remember. I have some trouble remembering all of the facts. Too many years and too many things have happened in my life so just let me say this:
1 In all of the T's from 09 to 27 the radiator support rod is supposed to be perpendicular to the firewall!
2. That same rod is to set the clearance for the hood including the gaps! Also, it helps, some, to keep the radiator from moving around. Is ALWAYS parallel to the frame of the car! Yours, it seems, is heading uphill towards the radiator.
3. Your car seems to be an enclosed car. the MOST heaviest T one can have! So this is where the fellas are telling you that the frame is bent. It could be! Straightening it is not a simple process! The body would have to be removed! Using rails and chain is ok to do this with and hyd. jacks. BUT... you will have to cut and fit boards inside your frame rails to give them some support. If this is the case pm me and we can talk faster than my banging this out!!!! (keyboard).
4. Usually what happens, if your radiator measures out correctly and hasn't been incorrectly re-core'd, is that the wooden body sills are rotted and the car is sagging from the weight on it's mounts! If this is the case, and I have seen many in this condition, you are ready for an education in cabinetry and nailing on sheetmetal skins. Or you trade the car off for something that you'd like more.
I hope you stay with the T as it is a good learning tool! It is where I got my start. Fun only if you can finish it! Sadly, I have seen many who were not really into the duration it can take and, like me now with my T's I guess, you could say put them on a back burner. The difference is though, I will if I can stay medically sound, finish mine. So can you.
There are lots of people here (MTFCA) from all over the WORLD who can help you in your endever to fix up your piece of history! Some of these fellas have to make a
(wise-ass) comment but all they are trying to do is lighten the moment! They are telling you, (Hey. I'm out here watching you too)... so please carry on! It is like when I taught the restoration courses at Tampa Bay Tech at night... some of them are in your same predicament and some are just observing. We all want to learn something. Sometimes it can be a little painful and hard on your wallet. That is why I taught people to do it themselves!!! You can too.
Sorry if I confused you with some of my earlier insertions.
I lost sleep over your problem last night! I do not want to steer you wrong.
I usually do not go back and look in on my old posts. That is because I do not remember where they were nor do I have the time to keep wandering thru all of the posts like I did today to again find yours.
It is getting spring and I MUST get back to work or loose my butt in expenses. I have enjoyed conversing with you all. Thanks for the chance.
You can pm anytime if you want but I must get back to work!!!!
Joe in Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 03:47 pm:

Kenny,
I know that I have posted previously that the frame might be bent. That was before you posted the picture looking from the top down. Before you try to straighten the frame, the easiest thing to check would be to remove the hinge rods from each of the hood sides and swap the sides, then turn the entire hood around. From your picture it looks like the top part of the hood is on backward.

Also if your car actually is a 24, the correct radiator is the high radiator, and so that would be right for your car.

Try turning the hood first. It is the easiest thing to do. Then take a picture and post with the hood on after you do it and we can look at it and see if that looks better or worse.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 04:50 pm:

Kenny,

I believe that the prospective of your photo from above makes it look like the hood is reversed. I don't think it is but it is very easy to check without going to the trouble of reversing the sides. Simply measure from the center along the face to the side hinge on the front and rear of the hood. The front measurement should be about 4" shorter then the rear.

Here is a High hood, fits 24-27 TT truck and 23 - 25 cars.



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 05:41 pm:

That's all good thanks everyone.and joe yes my first model t and I'm looking fir another one to restore so if that's what I have to di then body will come off.that's a new post how to take body off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 09:42 pm:

The hood isn't reversed. Just look at the dimensions in the posted drawings. There is approximately four inches difference in width on the top part,front to rear, PER SIDE. Just think what the front of the hood would look like setting on the cowl which would be four inches wider on each side. Nope, there's a problem somewhere else. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenny on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 11:29 am:

Started to take body off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 11:16 pm:

Kenny,
Top of the morning to ya!
I am so glad you finally found what was wrong!!!!
That is the last thing I would have thought. But probably not so rare on a full body closed car! I have never had one of those! So I plead DUMB here!!!
I guess out of say 20= model T's and several more frames to my ownership. I have never seen a really bent frame other than a little sway back in the middle. I have straightened those like everyone here told you to do. Railroad rail, chain and hydraulic jack. 10 ton or more works it easily. I use to use my T trailer I made in the 60's to also hold the frame. I have only purchased 1 T all together so I am not SMART here on figuring out what your problem is. I admit that!!! I have been building cars since 1958. It was the only way I knew how to get one. Going to college, dating, fraternity rushing, and paying for my insurance did not leave a fella making 70 cents an hour back then! I have always checked my frames for square, diamond, and warpage when assembling a car (even a hot rod, corvette wrecked chassis, or one of my old drag racing cars. They are all bent somewhere usually!!! But I have never had a hood fit like the one in your photo!!! Yes I have had some fitment problems with several of my cars that I have built. But I always figured it out somewhere in the stack up or wrong sized radiator. That was why I asked you to measure out everything. The fellas here have been very helpful in giving you those NEEDED measurements!!!! They ALL did great and a wealth of info. I am sorry if I told you stuff that seemed crazy now but it is all part of other people putting together a car incorrectly. I have seen my share of goofs! Teaching and building and trading cars you see all kinds of things. These guys will help you remove the body. 6 bolts to start with. But there is a whole lot more to do this. You will also need to see if your wooden sills are damaged. You'll need to drop or remove (best) the steering column. Then the firewall 4 bolts to the frame mounts. Unhook and drain the fuel system. Unwire some of the wiring. Coil to spark plugs wires. You'll need 4 friends that are strong or hyster with belting under the body in at least two places and lift it up and roll forwards the chassis. Then depending on the body sills condition set it on some saw horses. Preferable made from steel or 1" pipe. I beam from a trailer house works well too. Use the pipe for legs. you can pm me for more or call (I gave you my phone number when you pm'ed me last time. This IS the first time in a while that I happened to see your Radiator Fitment thread on the forum. I am really busy at my shop now that the weather is changing. Arthritis and gout bother me badly in the winter. Good luck and Kenny these guys will have a LOT more experience than me on closed cars!!! I have NEVER tried rewooding any of those except for the A models!
Your friend Joe in Mo.


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