Thought you might like to see the new timer available from Tony Wiltshire.
Go to www.twracing.com.
I have no financial interest in this project.
Ron the Coilman
I really like that rotor, great idea!
A carbon brush they say at the web page. Looks like a great idea
Haven't seen any of the period accessory timers looking exactly like this, but I guess there must have been a few similar ideas among the thousands of patents..
It looks like a Leece-Neville brush from a JB series alternator. Even the color looks right, more copper.(?)
I'm assuming that it is oil-less?
So, what is meant by the comment "oh crap"?
"I'm assuming that it is oil-less?"
Depends on the integrity of your camshaft seal.
Ron, is he just making the rotor or is he making the whole timer?
How many other 100 year old machines have people designing and building new accessories?
Do you have one of these or just a picture? Were they made for an earlier Ford than the T?
The website says the housings are completely rebuilt using all new components. I assume that means everything except the housing itself. Interesting thing is he doesn't require a core. You'd think he would run out of old ones eventually. Price on website is $75. I think I might give one a try. Next time I need one anyway.
How is the brush held into place before the timer case is installed?
I have several of the Ford timer brushes like Laydens picture. I think they were around 1917 - 19. Ron has all the drawings, maybe he can pin down the exact date.
What you see is what you get.
Ron the Coilman
What is the brush material on the Ford brush? Looks like it may be bronze?
Appears the internal ring is made from phenolic. I see bakelite was made from phenolic resin and wood fibre, but the bakelite ring timers didn't hold up as well as the Ford timers.
I wonder how the new ring will hold up in use.
I think Ron has more than I do but I have at least 30 different timers from the day. Fred Houston has a bunch of different ones and Doc Buie in British Columbia has a big collection. There was a thread about them several years ago. They come pretty much in three different designs. A wiper that wipes against a stationary terminal; points that open and close and some kind of a roller that makes contact with a terminal.
I just bought a couple on T Bay that I didn't have in my collection, missed one from the same guy, thought I had it in my snipe but didn't.
There are a lot of them that have about the same type of contact as this new one but I'd guess this new one is made of better materials and more accurate than most of the old ones.
How do you hold the contact in the rotor while putting the timer cover back on the car? Mike asked above, but no answer yet.
Appears very well made - will be interesting to hear some feedback on performance & durability.
To install i guess you hold the timer cover over the brush and move it over the brush until the brush is inside the timer. Then move the timer sideways until it is over the center of the camshaft and push it the remaining distance until it is against the engine block. The spring loaded thing that is bolted to the engine that normally holds the timer on can then be applied as per normal.
It would be nice if Tony Wiltshire, the guy who apparently makes these timers, would come onto this forum to answer all these questions. Tony Wiltshire, sell us on why we should buy these timers from you! Tony Wiltshire, where are you!
I just installed one of these timers today but have less than 20 miles on it so far. The instructions are clear. Do not use any oil or grease. Use any handy thin device such as a scale or ruler to hold the brush down while you slip the cover over it.
He uses the old case and makes everything else new. This is a very nice looking piece of work.
By the way, Ford timers were stamped out of the material left over from making the clutch disks for the transmission! Henry didn't wast anything. The part number for the disk is on the original factory drawings for the timer.
To answer some of the questions I have posted on my website www.twracing.com under the Video & Document tab the instructions that come with one of our timers.
The materials used in the rebuilding of the timers have been selected to provide a reliable product for the given application. There are many types of composite materials such as phenolic, however we do not use phenolic.
The carbon brush specification was selected after consulting with a carbon brush manufacture & discussing the application, again to provide a reliable product.
We have many timers being used even as far as the UK. So far our feed back has been very positive.
Two laminated layers of clutch disc "holes" for every stamped Ford roller timer.
Tony is also making new timer cases.
I hope Tony will chime in here soon.
In my and others view Tony has done his homework and has a well thought out product.
Yes it is a picture of my timer brush that I have had for many years. Royce is correct, a 1919 era sort lived trial.
I put one of these on my 13, and it works great. Tony adapted my aluminum timer to this new design. The car starts great and runs perfectly. I think this is an exceptional product. Great job Tony!
How long would you expect the carbon brush to last?
How much are replacement brushes?
It would be nice to see a price unless I missed it on the several posts. Looks good to me.
Geez, settle down Max - Tony's products speak for themselves - as in top notch.
Are there any advantages or disadvantages with the new Anderson timer? I would guess it would be less critical if the front plate wasn't exactly centered. But I thought the accuracy wasn't as important on magneto as the timing is done by the magneto wave form anyway. It looks like a great timer.
To answer Mikes question above, I developed the prototype to this 3 years ago and I have ran the same brush for 2 years now. As Tony stated, he consulted a brush company and went with their recommendation on a slightly different material than I used. I think the life should be comparable. Cost of the replacement brush should be very reasonable.
Just a little background on the development. I was tired of greasing, oiling and replacing timer components and the expense involved. I wanted something that was as near maintenance free as possible. After running two different versions over 3 years I approached Tony with this project. Tony is a retired Indy Car engineer and has developed a number of Model T components.
NOW WE ARE COOKING WITH GAS !!
A Model T timer with an Indy race car pedigree.. Wow
I wonder why the 1919/20 Ford version wasn't continued? HF stubbornness or wrong materials? Looks like metal in the Ford brush pictured above, likely it wore out the insulating material in between the contacts too fast? Kenny & Tony's carbon brush version should work much better anyway
The graphite used to make brushes doesn't grow on trees (today, china about has the market cornered). Henry probably didn't like the idea of importing so much stuff from Europe or Asia to make such an important part of his car.
Mike there is hope. St Marys Carbon Company in PA is still making brushes in house, well at least for now. They do custom work as well.
Ford had this to say about that:
I'm tired of my POS black "S" New Day- any feedback on this?
I'm running two Andersons right now, but I think this will be the next one I buy.
I really like this unit however I think they have rotor installed backwards. Unless I am mistaken it would seem that the drag is essentially trying to pull the brush out of the holder. I think it would be better if it turned the other way. I should buy one and try it I guess and also make a pin slot on the other side so I can try it both ways. The slot of course would not be directly across from what is there now.
I tried buying one through their website back in April and it dumped me after my final click to purchase, so I gave up. Let me know what you think of it Les.
I've worked on a lot of magnetos over the years and never ran into one on which the brushes were worn out......stuck from sitting for years on end, broken trying to loosen them but never worn out.
All ancient electric motors and generators had them and they ran for 1000's upon 1000's of hours without requiring replacement.
I'm bookmarking Tony's site.......
I sent a email asking to order one. I will see if I get a reply.
I just ordered one from Tony today. Called the number and Tony answered. E-mailed me a Paypal Invoice and with-in an hour of paying received an e-mail back telling me it would go out UPS tomorrow.
MIKE , I agree , leece Neville all the way.
Sorry to here that some of you have sent requests for our timer from our website & had no reply.
We have had some issues with the contact form but thought it was fixed, seems that is not the case.
We will be making some changes to that page as soon as we can get to it.
My phone number is on the contact page so just use that to contact me. I am not a great user of the forum so please do not try to get a message to me that way unless you send a personnel email from the forum.
For those wondering about reliability of these timers, I purchased a prototype model from Tony at Chickasha earlier this year and have been using it ever since. I have covered around 1000 miles so far with no issues apart from a little wear and tear. I have previously used roller timers but they require regular cleaning and lubrication for reliable service. I then tried an Anderson that was fully refurbished but was never happy with it as the firing positions varied from cylinder to cylinder!
I sell Model Ts in the UK, mainly to new people that don't need any more maintenance issues than necessary whilst getting used to owning a T and as far as I'm concerned this timer is a real bonus.
Tony now makes the casing as well as the internals which means he is able to control the quality a little better than when trying to refurbish an original housing.
The first time you attempt to fit one it seems a little awkward but you soon get the hang and you don't need to disturb it once fitted anyway! As someone else mentioned earlier, a steel ruler or similar to hold the brush down whilst you fit the cover does the trick.
I am considering going to this type of timer, I'm running an Anderson now. What would I have to do to swap over to this kind of timer?
Move the wires to the new cover, replace your rotor with the one furnished, replace the cover and start as usual.
When changing a timer, you should check the timing BEFORE doing any handcranking. It only takes minutes and could save you some doctor bills, not to mention ensuring your engine is running at its best.
Will....I bought one of these new timers, and even though I only used it a few hours before needing to pull the engine for a rebuild, it seems to be a nice running unit. Install was very simple, took about 5 minutes. Easy instructions, however I do recommend having a very thin piece of metal about 4 - 6 in. long, such as a metal ruler that is flat, to make it easier to "stuff" the carbon brush inside the timer cover while at the same time pushing the cover in place. Went very easy. Even did it once with the radiator in place at the engine guy's shop before yanking the engine. I'll probably buy another one come next season for one of the other cars.
Thanks guys. Garnet, I always check timing, been there done that. But I'm getting to old to crank by hand anymore. Tim, Thanks for the info. Im going to order one and see if it takes out that slight miss I'm getting. Iv checked everything else so its got to be in the timer.
Take the wire wheel to the flapper and fingers of that Anderson style timer. Clean terminals will improve engine performance....and will get you, and your daughter to the wedding. Have a great day !
I had timing issues with my Anderson timer so I bought a timer from Tony at Hershey on wednesday. i installed it that night and I am very satisfied with the results. if your camshaft seeps oil you might have problems. they need to stay dry. thanks Tony! great product. Ken
Bob, Thanks for all your help. The Anderson has been giving problems for a while. The last 6 weeks Iv been pouring so much money into the Model T and the 49 Plymouth to get ready for this wedding I just forgot about the timer. I guess thats like building a boat and not installing the drain plug.
I think it will do ok for the distance I need to go but I will clean it today. Tomorrow will be the first day in 6 weeks I wont have a wrench in my hands.
I kinda like the carbon brush idea. There's only one moving part. Other than spinning on its axle its not really moving either. It just sits in place never losing contact with the housing. In theory other than regular cleaning it looks pretty much maintenance free. Think about how many times an electric motor or generator spins around its brushes without any problems for years. Same concept here. This also has the unseen advantage of its own centrifugal force and internal spring to hold contact against the timer housing. Of course that said I don't want to say its great until Iv ran it for a while with no problems. I do wish there some other folks that could chime in of there experiences with type of timer.
I saw this at Hershey yesterday and liked it enough to buy one, along with my buddy, who also purchased one. It's going on this Saturday in place of my Anco. Tony has the casings spun from new material and the workmanship looks great.
Maybe somebody will make a New Day timer from good materials one day. I bet they would really sell.
How do you purchase one of these, i have tried to send an e-mail but it won't go thru telling me that the address doesn't exist.The website has no ordering information.
Tony was very busy at the Hershey booth yesterday... In the pouring rain. Here's his number: 317-431-1589
Well, I installed the timer on my 26 yesterday and re-set the rod. I was pleased to find that this gave more clearance at the fan belt than my Anderson did. Since it was pouring rain here in NJ, a test ride was out of the question. However, today is beautiful, although very windy, so we took her out for 40 mile run after breakfast.
I have to say that l am very pleased with the new timer. My Anderson was in tip-top shape and the car ran very well, usually getting around 18 mpg and logging about 4000 miles a year. What l noticed today was that she sounded smoother and l was running at a lower throttle position to get the same speed. With the wind, l didn't attempt any speed runs, but it seemed to pull inclines a little better than normal. I'm curious to see if my MPG goes up, as a result of a more complete fuel burn. We'll see.