Disclaimer?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Disclaimer?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 07:29 pm:

Is that heading new or did I just notice it? I don't know why some thing like this has to be posted up top and I sure hope it won't dull down the Forum to the MTFCI's level. I'm for a little mixing now & then. So what constitutes an argument? Type of oil? water pump yes/no? there's a reason this site is the hottest of the T sites and it's because of the way it is and differs from the others. My 2 cents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 07:39 pm:

i agree that legit disagreements about model ts should be allowed but there is no need for political crap on the site. My undergrad degree is political science and this is where i come to get away from it. I think the admins are doing us a service to remove political stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 07:43 pm:

Seems like a good idea to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 08:06 pm:

Yes glad someone noticed.

Disagreements of opinion, when discussed calmly, is not something we want to curtail. It's the insults and the like we are addressing.

Chris


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 08:08 pm:

Thank you, Chris.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 08:12 pm:

Thank you Chris and other administration members who were willing to take a stand against trashy postings. This forum is a great place to make friends and learn about the antique car hobby no matter what make or model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 08:21 pm:

So now all it takes is one person to say something inflammatory and a thread which may have contained 50 useful posts before that one post will be erased in its entirety?

That doesn't seem like a good idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 09:33 pm:

What Dan said.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 09:57 pm:

How many posts have been deleted in the last three years?

This is a rhetorical question. Maybe 5.

Our main concern is the non-T posts, usually political, that do not contribute to the Model T hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 10:01 pm:

I have also received many comments where people will not post as their OPINION gets critiqued to death, when it should just be considered as another way to get something done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 10:02 pm:

Just wondering about the need to say it (post it). Agree very few have been deleted & only makes me think why list it now. Some thing change?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 10:17 pm:

Chris. Very good digression. Most of us read what we like and skip the rest. I often wonder how far off the subject we should get. It is your call as long as you are willing to do this and I am most happy with the job you are doing.
Thanks so much.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 10:20 pm:

Discretion. excuse me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 10:34 pm:

You didn't have a disclaimer on the front page either. This makes it appear that it's an official policy change, and a somewhat ambiguous one at that.

Regarding the critiques, I'm not quite sure how you change that in an Internet discussion board format. I thought that was the point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 11:05 pm:

Chris,
Thanks. Now, let's make this an even better discussion forum (I'm such an optimist when I'm on pain killers).
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 11:24 pm:

I don't have a problem with people expressing OPINIONS; it's when people express their opinion as GOSPEL that I have a problem with.

Opinions are different from facts...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 11:35 pm:

^ Except some people can't (won't) differentiate the two.......and then proceed to beat the issue to death.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 12:10 am:

I saw that header a bit earlier today. I wondered if it had something to do with two recent threads I saw started by people with no interest in model Ts at all. I forget now what they were trying to sell, but neither thread had any business here.
I will admit to having mixed feelings about such headings and/or disclaimers. But sometimes such things are necessary.
Thank you Chris, for all you do to make this enjoyable site possible.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 08:17 am:

I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions either...as long as they agree with mine!

Chris I like the idea of curtailing insults.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 11:21 am:

I have no problem with people either agreeing or disagreeing with me. But I don't like it when someone who disagrees with me won't speak or associate with me. (I probably shouldn't have written that, because now you know how to make me mad!)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 12:02 pm:

Dennis - I agree with you! Can we be friends because I agree with you? :-)

Norm - I will ignore you because I don't want to make you mad! :-)

Bill V. - We all have opinions - but I wonder how to determine what a fact is! :-)

Dan B. - Eliminating a thread because of one inflammatory statement is like cutting off an arm when you have a splinter in your finger. :-)

Caution - The above has been posted because I'm on the same pain killers as Rob H. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 12:03 pm:

Woops missed one -- Should this thread be listed as OT?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 12:11 pm:

Chris

I agree, differences of opinion discussed calmly and above all courteously, are fine.

Occasional OT subjects can be interesting.

Political crap belongs elsewhere.

IMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 12:53 pm:

False, misleading and unsubstantiated calms spewed as gospel fact about a T method, product or service should not be allowed or tolerated on this discussion forum in my view either.

The exchange of information and opinions about a Model T method, product or service with firsthand knowledge of or experience with those topics is what makes this forum a valuable asset to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:08 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:29 pm:

It is a shame it has come to haveing to delete post.Some of my best reading comes from this forum.The off topic threads often show me something or teach me something I other wise would never see or read because it is not in my "little circle" of life so to speak.

There is no such thing as a decent politic forum.
There is no such thing as facts from a politician so how do we or anyone else ever get to discuss facts if'n we cant find them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:47 pm:

I have got to believe that there has been no real rule changes but instead, just a statement of the existing rules.

Let's just see how things progress. I don't really think we'll see a huge difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:49 pm:

Thanks Chris


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:52 pm:

As I said before I never repeat myself. We are the face to the world and a hobby that doesn't grow will die. This hobby needs to attract yougins.
Trolling should not be tolerated.
The demographic is changing and many younger people view politics thru' a different lens.
These subjects do not belong here and there are many forums designed for such.
We need lurkers to post, we need new people to post.
I have no issue with OT posts. I do have issues with how we present ourselves to the world.
It protects our investment in time and money.
In my small little world I belong to 4 old car clubs. Those people read this forum and rarely if ever post. We need to change that.
I belong to many forums and believe moderation should be limited as much as possible. Moderation is dictated by our own behavior. Un-moderated forums typically wind up being moderated and rules are enacted against all because of the actions of a few. As to those forums the few know who they are... I have seen good forums die because of the actions of the few.

If we are here to talk about cars or need help we would be better off to do so. It seems we haven't had an OT political thread for a while and maybe it's me but it seemed to be civil around here and we were helping each other out and to that end others as well.

If I may be so bold, if we cannot police ourselves we will be policed and it will not happen because of the majority.

Form this website,
"The focus of our Forum is to provide a place where questions and answers regarding the history, maintenance and restoration of the Model T can be shared. We expect postings on the forum to be Model T related; questions and comments about the Model T Ford Club of America should be directed to the Business Office. We reserve the right to monitor this web site and forum and remove postings that are not directly related to the Model T Ford."

Clearly the board has granted the moderator certain privilege, as they should. It is contained in the last sentence.
We have a policy, let's not abuse it...in fact if you can't abide by it one should rethink their position and take it to a proper forum designed for it, and abide by their rules.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 02:01 pm:

Mack,
http://www.debatepolitics.com/

This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 03:25 pm:

Well said, Mike. I have been on the forum since July of 1999 when I had dialup and checking the forum was a chore I did several times a day because it was so interesting and I was learning so much from it.

I seldom check it now even with instantaneous DSL, when I do I scroll the topics and read a post or two, then go on to other things, especially the threads that are nothing but bickering or promotion of a commercial product.

I could name 100 Model T guys who used to participate who do not any longer. All you have to do is go back to the forums of a few years ago and you will find a lot of names that haven't been on here for a long time and will never be back because of some people's behavior.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 05:47 pm:

Stan,
And the rest of us are the real losers due to the absence of their wit and wisdom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 08:29 pm:

Oh please, enough with the guilt trips. If someone decides to stop participating because their feelings get hurt, that's their own decision. I don't know how that's even possible given that the discourse on this forum pales in comparison to real life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 09:56 pm:

Dan, you miss the point. They quit participating because a few people argue with anything and everything that is posted, turn it into a political discussion or some kind of personal rant. Some people just have a limit to the BS they will put up with and at that point find better things to do with their time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 10:20 pm:

It's like I've said in the past: opinions are like a@@holes....everyone has one or can be one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 10:37 pm:

Well said, Stan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 10:40 pm:

I don't lose too much sleep over it. I don't assume an entire hobby isn't worth participating in just because I saw a few dinks arguing politics (or whatever) on a forum. That would be rather silly.

I just don't see Billy Bob in Jamaica suddenly deciding he doesn't want to buy a Model T because he saw a few people on a forum arguing about some trivial crap. That's not a rational thread of thought, IMO.

Moderating a forum, even one as benign as this one is, is not easy. I thank and hand it to Chris every day I come here and am able and have the freedom to post here.

On a side note, for those who find the rare argumentive threads here a bit intimidating - be advised, this place is milque-toast compared to the muscle car and gun forums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 10:40 pm:

We should want more people not less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:42 am:

Its not the politics that prevents people from posting. The political posts are probably the longest and most read ones on this forum.

Many don't post because they feel their model t knowledge does not come up to par with the regular posters that dominate the forum.

The problem is not the topic, its the civility of the discussions - which doesn't mean disagreements or heated discussions are not civil.



Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 12:04 pm:

I agree with Vince, there has been a lot of great stuff discussed on the Forum, with some disagreements which is good and understandable.

However the way some posters go on and on (and on and on) about none original changes with just stupid (in my opinion). The political stuff has no place on this forum.

Lets keep it civil and related to Model T Fords and when it gets out of hand (his opinion), I support Chris in deleting either the thread or individual contribution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 12:07 pm:

I agree with Vince. One can certainly disagree and in fact be direct about it. As I wrote there is a policy and I gave alternatives. It seems the idea of not allowing political posting has morphed into we must be kissy, kissy. Not at all.
There seems to some angst with a few that this is not a platform to argue political views.
If it is divisive, causes people to leave and I think it is demonstrably so, why does it hurt to stay with a discussion for which this forum is meant for....Like the old man use to say, take it outside boys..g


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 12:20 pm:

Vince, I strongly agree.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 01:40 pm:

A caveat to Vince I think the Political post are a problem. We lost a lot on Monday over an OT political post.
I've had my coffee, I'm awake. An arguable point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 03:36 pm:

I think some people need to just lighten up a bit they take life too seriously. Have fun and enjoy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 06:12 pm:

OK fella. Just wait till you say something stupid on the forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rion Schulze on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 06:24 pm:

Well, I must have missed something here. I don't know what the original post was referring to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 06:53 pm:

Well Rion, I would suggest you would have to be a kvetching old man like me to get it! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:05 pm:

Rion,

One must review the recent posts frequently (several X a day) to stay on top of the "hot stuff)!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rion Schulze on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:18 pm:

LOL, I guess. I may have seen it if it was on facebook. :>( I bet I was wasting my time kayaking.


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