Timer Rod Bending

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Timer Rod Bending
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:45 pm:

Some years ago I changed my 1923 motor from a distributor to an Anderson timer and Ford coils. The new timer rod rubbed on the outside oil line and the lower radiator hose making motion stiff and possibly even limiting full advance. Now with a new motor, I'm determined to make this fit as it should with full freedom of movement and full travel. Here is a pic of the rod in place on the new motor showing the places where it was in trouble before:



I'm even considering making a new longer rod that could be bent up with more clearance under the hose. The existing rod is 7/32" material, a size that McMaster does not stock. Does anyone know of a source of this size rod? Would 3/16 be strong enough? It would need to be bushed out at the ends. 5mm is just undersized and might work also. Any ideas?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 01:57 pm:

We make all the commutator and carburator rods and the size might not make a difference but what we make is tempered so it will hold shape after fitted, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 02:23 pm:

Thanks Bob, I probably have your products as I bought two of each trying to get something that would fit. For reasons that are murky in my mind, nothing seems to fit on my car. I ended up bending the throttle rod like a pretzel to make it work:



The throttle rod worked fine with the last motor, but was too long for this one. The timer rod didn't fit really fit on the old motor and looks the same way on this one. Do you offer longer ones? Any ideas on getting a better fit?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 02:34 pm:

These tools really help to adjust the control rods and are available from most T vendors. They work great!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 02:34 pm:

Paul,
Just open up the curved section of the rod near the timer a little and you should have plenty of length to bend and miss the oil line and radiator hose. It would be a lot easier then starting from scratch.

Straighten the he left end just a little:


Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 03:16 pm:

Jay - I just got those tools in a few days ago. They look like they will be a big help.

Jim - I can try that. The rod rubs the oil line and the bottom of the hose so additional bends are needed that may be more than I can get out the existing rod. I'll just have to see. I guess most of us have been able to make the standard rod work. Why oh why should THIS car be so very different from its 15 million brothers & sisters?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 04:03 pm:

Paul, You'll be surprised how well the tools work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 04:52 pm:

As John Regan has stated here many times, the lower radiator hose needs to be cut shorter than the repros are made, so the timer rod goes behind it instead of under it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 05:05 pm:

You are not going to like my suggestion but it will get you there quicker and nicer than anything. Buy a new rod made exactly to Ford drawings. Remove the outside oil line temporarily and put the new rod on the car and as Mike W. said - shorten the lower hose of the 2 that hook the metal radiator tube to the water inlet. Make sure the new rod passes under ONLY the tube and not any of the hose. If it passes under that lower hose then trim the hose a bit shorter or the rod will hit the hose and clamp at the upper end of that lower hose. There is plenty of length to the upper hose to make it all hook up. Time the car properly at 15 degrees after top dead center by increasing or decreasing the span of the arc at the end of the rod that is above the timer. Do not bend the other end. Decreasing the span of the arc will advance the timing and not affect the clearance elsewhere. Once the timing is set note that everything is giving nice clearance. Now- re-install the oil line using an elbow if needs be to get the line out of the way of the timer rod instead of vice versa. It is soft copper and it can arrive at its location in many ways but most importantly it really only has to dodge the timer rod and not the fan belt, oil line, radiator hose and anything else. Been there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 06:14 pm:

Thanks John, it makes good sense to shorten the hoses. Not only will it ease installing them, I can see it would allow more room for the rod.

The question I have is where to buy a timer rod made to Ford drawings. I have a new one sent by Chaffin some time ago that is being used as a spare. Would it be correct?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 01:07 am:

I thought for awhile at least that someone was making them to Ford drawings and all of the vendors were getting them from that same source. I do not wish to cast any doubt in the direction of any vendor since I just don't know now for sure. Ask them. I don't like it when they say they copied an NOS timer rod since you can see for yourself how bent up they get in quick order. BTW you only shorten the one lower hose so that the rod then passes under only metal tube and no part of that lower hose or clamp. The upper hose remains full length so that you can reach from the upper end of the metal tube to the water inlet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:26 am:

"The existing rod is 7/32" material, Does anyone know of a source of this size rod?"

Ask for drill rod, not common steel rod. The drill rod is tough and you may need a press to bend the square ends, but DO NOT heat it or it will get real hard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:43 am:

Paul,

Just to save you some extra work, don't do as John suggested. I see it your photo that the rod is against the oil line fitting, so removing the oil line or bending the oil line to clear the rod will not work. Cutting the radiator hose shorter is a good idea and will provide some extra clearance for the rod.

If you calculate how much the rod needs to be extended (lengthened) to clear the oil fitting, it is very small. If you open up the curved end as I suggest to add 0.030" of extra length to the rod, then the rod can be bent over about 1/2" to clear the oil fitting.

This is just a couple minute job, a slight bend here and there to provide clearance, check your timing and you are good to go.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 12:58 pm:

As Jim suggested why don't you caress what you have and make it work. Sometimes it takes some fiddlin but you can be successful.


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