Thought you guy's might like to see some forward progress.
Wow, tell us about the engine please,
And thanks for posting.
Front brakes? I see two master cylinders with a balance-bar...
Small hubs front--Disc Brakes, right side has speedo-meter hub also.
Large hubs rear 1993 Nissan Brake shoes.
Every thing machined to work with original front spindles and rear axle shaft.
Also the rear axle has emergency brakes both sides, and they work off the original brake lever on the left side of the T so you don't have another lever to deal with. The front disc and calibers are super small so you really don't even notice their on the car.
But like I said this car needs to drive right along in heavy city traffic and not be in the way.
This is our first T project but not our first car project.
Here is a picture of the rear center section all hand machined from one solid steel block and machined for modern bearings. We used an original 1911 center for outside dimensions.
Charlie, Becky...... Sense I'm a fellow member of the Model T Ford Police, and the rules plainly state section 22- 346 you just simply can't paint a Model T yellow I'm gonn'a be forced to come and pick yours up and hold it for further investigation. 7:^)
I said it once when I seen a certain yellow and black 26-27 pick/up I've never liked yellow on much of anything. But it amazes me every time I see one painted yellow as to how good they look, I think it's growing on me.
Your car looks Great !
I Never liked a Model T in YELLOW until NOW !
Ooooooooh.....Aaaaaaaahhh.... very nice
Thats a T-Go head I believe.
It is a T-GO Head, and if you read the above post it is all correct, we spent about 100 hr's plus redesigning the head in welding and machine work and hand machined all new valve and rocker arms to make it work. The casting was so thin in places we just had to bore larger holes and install plugs, weld them in, and re-bore as needed to make it work. Can't say how many hours where spent just thinking how to make the change. The cylinders are bored 40 over and have high domed pistons, hand built rods, A crank, inside of block is fully polished, every thing is drilled for pressure oiling, VW pump, reground cam,
The car is tri-colored in yellows, but you can only see the color change in sunlight.
So far it has been a very interesting project as with the hood closed we want it to look just like the 1911 car that it is, only we want it to be driven by anyone with a drivers license.
Here is a shot of the suspension during the mock-up trials. And a few misc, stuff.
Amazing work but how are the calipers attached to the spindles?
Here's a few more shots of work in progress.
I have no idea why when I post a picture my text goes away when I do a final post, but the top two pictures or shots of the left spindle with the caliber bracket installed. The next picture is the header down pipe with EMT cut down coupler and just a piece of scrap tail pipe tubing slide in to show how it works, nice tight and leak free easy to do repairs if need be.
And the last picture is the Saturday Night Special engine incase Becky wants to race.
HA! Not really that the other shop project a 1909 National, just thought you guy's might like to see it.
A few years ago I cast some new cylinders for a National (single T head type) The originals were very poor design inside the water jackets. No radiuses etc. If you need a set I still have the patterns
Can't believe some folks hate on Yellow Ts. Don't y'all know?
YFAF - Yellow Fords are Faster
No hat'n here its just a color you never see unless its a rootleib kit speedster.... Hey nothing like a sleeper T !
I know a fellow in a smell town in Ga. That had a T speedster similar set up he purposely ran it at an annoying slow speeds in the great race for several miles he said he would wait on most everyone to pass him up and then he would wait on just the right hill and piss everyone off when the ol'T came blazing by their model A's and Packards, Hudson's , ect.... Going up hill ! He said he loved it.
please don't take this the wrong way, but I totally don't get this car.
Being a life-long car guy, I do understand antique cars, their charisma, their ability to provide travel back in time. Their pure presence and preservation provides a tactile experience like no other. We preserve them, enjoy them despite their shortcomings in modern traffic and are somewhat custodians of historically important items. If I'm in front of an antique car, I want to smell it, soak it in with all of my senses. I admire the 100 year-old diamond tuft leather, the original paint that's almost gone, and ever brass item that has varnished so much that there can be no doubt that this is the real thing.
On the other hand, I also understand hot rods. While I personally despise "Avoid the Boyd" easter-egg-colored contraptions that have nothing in common with a classic car but the silhouette of their 'glass shell, I recognize and appreciate Hot Rods that are true to their period. I have no problem with a Model A sitting on '32 rails, powered by a 48-stud Mercury flathead, and painted in the spirit of the 1960s when it was built. There's plenty of room for individualism in the automotive hobby.
But . . . I can't make sense of your car at all.
If the goal was to provide the antique car experience to at least some degree, the paint alone kills it more effectively than anything else. Now add 4-wheel disc brakes to it, modern gauges, and what you have is a replica of something that never was. The answer to a question nobody asked, the solution to a problem that does not exist.
If you just wanted to build a super cool car that will get tons of attention and admiration, you could have used an aftermarket frame, or, alternatively,a Model A frame, installed juice brakes on all 4 corners which is an easy fit, and use a Model B engine that has been given a shot of extra muscle. For $895 there's even a conversion kit to a 5-speed transmission available, and if you then mounted any body you like atop of it, even the one you are using now, Becky would be able to drive this thing like a "normal" car, keep up with traffic, brake safely, yet would not have to deal with the babbit-eating engine and band-burning Model T particulars.
While it's obvious that you are a very talented, accomplished, and competent fabricator, I feel what you did is a bit like developing the first dishwasher with built-in toilet. A new development, ingenious, but just mad with no market for it. On the other hand, developing an almost invisible front disc brake for a Model T is something that people would buy for $995, simply because it's a safety item and makes driving an antique car more confidence inspiring. I have talked to owners of Porsche Speedsters ($250K) and Shelby Cobras ($1M) who, wherever they stop, are being asked where they purchased that kit. Owners of 1932 Fords are experiencing something similar when being asked why they didn't chop the body (more), and having had a 1950 Mercury survivor for a short while, I know how many people looked at that car with a hacksaw in their mind.
Perhaps you could give us some insight into the underlying reasoning behind your project. I would love to "get" this car. So far, I'd say it's perfect for the H.A.M.B. but less for the Model T crowd.
please don't take this the wrong way, but I totally don't get this car."
Looks like a model T speedster with some aftermarket coil box (like a truefire?) an aux'trans' and some brakes that will work a little better than the old style rocky's when they get wet and pressure oiling with an overhead valve conversion. Appears as if it is intended for someone called Becky to drive. Think of it as a speedster with what might be a stock body and you will "get" the idea.
Bernard, you recently re-appeared after a hiatus. What kind of T do you drive?
Keep us updated with pix as you progress, Charles; your fabricating and machining skills are awesome.
Very pretty, but is it as a Model T was manufactured? No. However, it's your car, so do as you will.
Great car. I totally get it. My experience is that those who don't understand it are also those who don't have the ability to do what you have done. Please ignore them and keep up the good work!!!
Cars like soft nice smelling women are to be loved,and enjoyed, life is short, kick tail in your work and enjoy the fruit of your labor.
On the other hand, I see no use for a car that you can only drive in the K-Mart parking lot late at night or the 4th of July parade downtown, trailer and garage queens seem like a waste of time and effort.
It's just fun to build stuff that you know is going to make someone else happy to drive,admire, and for them to share with the people they love. In the end it's art in the eye of the beholder.
apparently you didn't get my post. Not at all.
"I see no use for a car that you can only drive in the K-Mart parking lot late at night or the 4th of July parade downtown, trailer and garage queens seem like a waste of time and effort."
Model T's can be drive around the world. In fact, one has just been driven from Australia through Africa through the Middle East, all the way to Moscow. That's beyond the K-Mart. Far, far, far beyond driving to the K-Mart. What's so challenging about driving a Model T far and on long trips is the engine and transmission, yet that's where you stick with the Model T stuff.
You don't like trailer and garage queens? Me neither. Nor do I like show cars. I drive all of my cars, and I have quite a few. For that reason I can't really warm up to a 1909, '10, or '11 Model T, no matter how desirable they are to most Model T owners, as they are like pieces of jewelry. If I look at a 1909 Pierce Arrow, I see an automobile that exudes luxury, attention to detail, polished brass, pin striping, and all that goes in that direction. If I look at a Model T, I like to see the car that the farmer bought to allow the horse to sleep in on Sundays. If I think Model T Speedster, I like to see one that is true to the period, a car that was built by discarding the body and mounting or constructing one to make it more sporty. The rules of the Speedster runs embrace this spirit. No later-than 1927 parts are allowed, and we really don't have to even mention disc brakes.
Again, nobody is doubting your vision and your skills; far from it, I personally am utterly impressed, but if better driveability was on your mind, why not using a Model A frame and drivetrain coupled to a fully synchronized 5-speed transmission instead, and mounting your body atop that chassis? So, again, what I don't get is why you chose the worst frame and the worst transmission for this project, while improving on the rest, instead of using a better base to begin with?
It is made with T parts so it is like driving a T because it is one. i get it. If he used later model engine/tran's it would be a replica and drive like a modern car which is not his aim. And it looks like he can change most of it back to original in an afternoon if he wanted, Can't do that with a replica.
Hi This is my yellow beast. The yellow is non original (but the rest of the car is all 1910 Hupmobile). Not a Model T but I do have a 1913 Tourer that sits in the garage next to this one. Bobbie Hupp worked for Ford prior to setting up on his own. When Henry viewed the prototype he commented " If we built a car as good as Bobbies we'll be doing well " He sure did ! - Karl
Here is my 1914ish Yellow Model T Speedster. The Rolling Chassis Came from Hershey when I was 15 years old back in 1986. Over the course of two plus years I put it together with my father's help and it was finished my senior year of high school, 1989. It has been driven extensively over the course of the last twenty plus years. The second windshield was added when I got engaged to my wife. I have had a great time with it and now as my kids get older I take them out in it more and more
Its also yellow:
@John & Karl, those yellow cars are beautiful.
And Bernard, I can tell we would get along real well together, because we would be out driving our projects and having a good time.
I think the thing I like about T's the most is they are timeless, people have been using them for all sorts of activities since the first one and that hasn't changed and every group has put a different spin on a simple car.
PS---How about another build picture.
One of the guys in our club has a bright yellow 1916 touring, I love it! I wish I had the tools and skills to do what is being done on the Becky's car. Great job!
I don't get people who don't get originality in thinking. Kind of like building an early Ford with a 50 Olds engine. The first comment out of everybody's mouth is "why didn't you use a 350 Chevy engine".
Answer: I didn't want to.
I like it. It's the same thing we were doing to '55 Fords and chevys in high school. It's a hopped up Model T, and should be registered as a Model T because it still has an original Model T drive train. "T buckets" on the other hand do not deserve antique status unless it can be proven the car was assembled 40 or 50 years ago; whatever your state requires to be an antique; and they certainly don't deserve to be registered as a Model T.
Some of us have done front brakes on the T. One potential issue you seem to have ignored is the kick back that can occur to the steering wheel if you brake hard with one wheel on dry pavement and one wheel on loose material. I know of three solutions;
1. use a "non-reversing" steering box. Original accessory ones exist (rare) or later types.
2. There also exist original accessory steering box "top/covers" that are non reversing
3. Rework the front axle geometry so the king pin lines up with the centre of the tire where it contacts the ground ( like all production cars with front brakes have)
Assuming Becky is important to you this is something to consider
Right on, Les. Speaking of brakes: Charles, could you explain the two master cylinders?
On the brakes, we started at the oil pan, and added a reinforcement plate inside the pan where the wishbone is mounted to keep the pan from flexing. We then add a second set of lower wishbone arms to keep the axle from flexing and twisted the kingpin mounts to bring the kingpins straight up and down. Then we added the dual adjustable master cylinders one for the front and one for the rear, the front brakes are really for drag only as the rears will have most of the stopping power. We are not trying to stop the car with the front brakes just assist the rears.
You say "twisted to get the kingpins straight up and down". Did you remove all the "caster" ( tilt to the back of the kingpins)? I am not sure if you have ever driven a light fast car with only rear brakes before. It can be a scary experience when the rear wheels lock up and you can't stop AND the back end wants to come around on you. But I am sure you know all this
We have front brakes all the time when the peddle is depressed, the fronts just become stronger the more pressure you apply to the brake peddle.
Sorry about being short on subject, really working my tail off in the shop, should have address your questions better.
I would love to know more about your brakes..
You have done a beautiful job of what you have done, but it is somewhat like a woman who gets a face lift, wears a wig, gets her breasts enhanced and her bottom redone, wears colored contacts. She might be "beautiful" in the eyes of some beholders, but she is sure not the way God made her.
Same way with your Model T. I wouldn't feel quite so bad if it had been one made during the 20's, but to do this to an early brass T is sad. The reason I say sad, is because they are in higher demand and few to find.
My suspicion is that you don't get so much kick from driving an old Model T, than you do from surprising some unsuspecting soul who thinks you can only putt along and then give it the gas and spin circles around them. Your thrill is in a different direction than most of ours.
I can understand "speedsters" because they have always been around since the T's were new or nearly new. Most speedsters were made by younger adults. They were also not quite as elaborate as yours.
Anyway, the car is yours, and it is beautiful in it's own way, but also sad that one more original or near original Model T has been lost.
I'll let Charles answer as he wishes but I hardly think he took a genuine, original 1911 brass T and did this with it. My guess is he's using a new body, and later engine block and front axle. I think there's very little pieces there that saw the year 1911. I would hate it if something very original were destroyed in order for somebody to pursue some silly, worthless project. I just don't see that here. Looks like some various later parts were collected, lots of new sheet metal & radiator purchased and maybe a 1911 frame used.
While I wouldn't, (and probably couldn't), do this with my T's, I can see how the challenge of doing this could be fun for Charles. It's not necessary for anyone else to "get it" because it's not our project. I find it respectful and done in the spirit of the race car builders of the 1920's who used the best of what they could get or make in their day. For instance, I think maybe Ed Winfield would find it interesting and have a lot to discuss with Charles.
I notice your water pump is pointed downhill. It even makes the belt ride askew on the pulley. You might want to have a look at it. Maybe the belt is too tight?
@Jerry, things at this stage go on and off several times a day as we build new parts every day.
That pump has been on and off about 10 times in the last 5 days as we build more parts to complete the project.
Hey how about some tires being mounted. Wayne built this tire tool to see if it would work to mount tires with out scratching the wheels.
Works slick as all get out. Wheels came out scratch free. Still a lot of work.
The underlying question -- and I don't see no reason not to chat casually about this -- is: when does a Model T Speedster become a Hot Rod?
The other question Charles never answered is: why a T and not an A or something else for such a project?
Here's a perfect base for such a project:
Or, if speed and all-day driveability is the goal, check out this creation: not a T, not an A, but surely a lot of fun to bang around:
This one done with the skills Charles possesses would be a car worth a good penny when done!
Here's the most expensive Speedster on the market right now. Plenty of Rootlieb stuff, but also plenty of brass, and surely done to a standard that wasn't even possible back in the day:
Way too shiny for my taste, but I dig it and understand that somebody aiming for perfection would be aroused by it.
"...The other question Charles never answered is: why a T and not an A or something else for such a project?.."
With all due respect, I don't believe Charles owes any of us an explanation for his likes and desires. Why do you like Model T's and not Model A's?
"Because I can" would be a sufficient explanation for me.
You need to try it sometime they are great, I'm building one presently for a 14 yr old grandson who has been on honor roll every yr, it wont be fancy like the above, because I'm not talented enough but it will be fun, I love the color, did you ever pull up under a T (black) at nite, you can't see them
If you don't build your car the way you like it, you are doing it all wrong. There are as many different ideas of the perfect model T as there are people who look at this forum. I look at it as a way to relax and do something with my time that has something to show for it. However, it is always fun to look at someone else's project and compare it to what you like. That's human nature. Charles is having fun and doing a great job.
I'm just part of the team building this car, I get paid for my work but it's still a labor of love. I'm an artist not a history guy, but you wouldn't believe how many books on Model T's we have and how correct this car will be when it's finished, really hundreds of hour of book work have gone into this car, drawings blown up old pictures blown up. You should see our piles of parts we have bought to get just one part we needed to stay correct to the brass era. It took four frames just to get all of that correct and the bare frame you see in the pictures every rivet was replaced and we made all the dies to install them back just as they where installed when they where new. The owner is a lady the car needs to be friendly!
Wow, fantastic work, fantastic finish - you are doing everything just right
Making a T less dangerous to drive in today's traffic is not easy - lots of thought in this project not to mention lots of funds..
..but the result will be worth it, since you won't find another one just like it for sale.
"...The other question Charles never answered is: why a T and not an A or something else for such a project?.."
With all due respect, I don't believe Charles owes any of us an explanation for his likes and desires. Why do you like Model T's and not Model A's?
You are right, Charles doesn't owe any of us anything. He doesn't have to answer questions, he doesn't even have to post. But last time I checked, it still is allowed to answer questions on this board, or is it? Or should we from now on refrain from asking questions, or just, like Derek suggested, simply guess what the reasons may be? Do you find that more appropriate? I mean . . . really?
I personally ask question if there's something I don't understand and like to know. Charles (and anybody else) can of course ignore any of my (or anybody's) questions or he can just say it's none of my business what he does and why he does it, but unless I get an answer to a question that I can't get out of my head, and it's related to the topic at hand, I might choose continue to ask it if the opportunity seems to be right, or until I am prohibited to ask questions on this forum.
To answer your question to me which I will gladly answer: I am not only into Model T's but also into Model A's and also into "something else." While I like Model T's, particularly unrestored cars and those who look like they have been allowed to age gracefully, I do enjoy other cars and vehicles as well. If I wanted a reliable Speedster-like creation to drive frequently and to run errands, I would indeed choose a better frame and another drivetrain combo than a 20-hp babit-engine with a fragile crank and a 2-speed planetary. I would most likely go for an A chassis with juice brakes, a B engine and a synchronized 5-speed, albeit with the same body I would put on a T chassis. Looks the same, drives better, brakes better, and is still more authentic than a T with hydraulic 4-wheel disc brakes and hot rod gauges. Well, you asked.
What I like particularly about T's is that there's no other car like a worn, black horseless carriage that looks like it's been through hell and back. A colorful Model A simply can't give the same impression that an unrestored T does. An old T is different from cars that came afterward, and the few cars that would be a viable alternative to an old T are usually much more expensive to buy and much more difficult and expensive to keep alive. See, that was easy.
Well here is my answer you can't make an A look like this T and I think this T is one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. Don't know who it belongs to but my next car will look close to this guys car only it will be purple. This thing is bitchin!
and maybe a little like this.
The black speedster looks like Claytons. Has a huge following around the internet and appears to have inspired a few copycats.
Now i hope this thread returns to the yellow car in the original posting?
Yes the black roadster is Claytons.
The purple T is Russ Freund's "Take Out T" (if anyone wanted to know).
I'm extremely impressed with the quality of workmanship on this car. Also appreciate the originality displayed in some of the design. Maybe more impressive is your response to all the criticism. Despite all the insults, you remain civil and polite. Personally, I love this car. Great work.
I'll second what Chuck said. I don't get the comments about "Not understanding this car" but I am impressed with your reaction.
It's a WICKED cool car and ya'll best believe I'd LOVE to have it and drive it.
I like for people to be straight up, so let's shed a little light on the project. Just thought you guy's might want to see the lamps. Before I cut them all up. Naw just kidding on the cutting.
And here is Becky's next project a pickup to go to Home Depot, be starting June or July
Good gravy. Would the person making all this happen adopt me? He/she can call me Becky, or Cynthia, or whatever. Too cool.
The pickup has to be yellow, too.
ok, my $.02,
What a cool project. I absolutely love the detail that is going into this project. Most envious that you have the time, talent and $ to do something so cool. I run short on all three, time, talent, and $$.
good luck and keep posting.
That yellow pickup is just what we are going to build, only it has to be black or at least the frame and suspension has to be black.
Nice looking very well built machine you have Rick, for us new guys you should post some pictures.
Becky has limitless money? Those lamps are jewelry, but for a car.
Charley I would also like to commend your restraint and professionalism in reply to some of the comments. I noticed it immediately in your responses and thought what a cool guy. The work looks flawless and I appreciate your sharing.
Here's a few pictures, painted the hubs today.
Tank a few weeks ago.
Sorry about the poor color quality.
Charley, that's a great project. I have a pretty good idea who you are building it for and know that she will want it done right. Not many people could do the quality of work you are doing. I also commend you on your civility to those who have been less than complimentary for whatever reason. Please keep posting. I would have to say I'm with Les on the front brakes but I'm not engineer and he is so I won't offer any advice.
Charley, I've glanced in on this post several times now and it always renders me speechless. I've had a lot of good ideas in the past but nothing like this. Clayton raised a few eyebrows in the beginning but most came around. He's got a real nostalgic eye for his T and has incorporated some update's that might not have been done in the 20's-30's, but has done them with the era in mind. In my observation you have too.
Thanks for sharing a great project with us all. I was going to ask what you do for a job as thought you might be a surgeon? Looking at the cleanliness of your workshop and your attention to detail I thought that might be a fair guess! Please keep the updates and pictures coming. I am enjoying watching the project progress. I have a soft spot for the Torpedo's as I owned one for a short while. Becky is a lucky girl!
Little rainy out today here in beautiful OKC, so here is a quick picture of the painted wheels.
Is the gas tank a different yellow? Or is the photo?
That softer yellow is what I want to paint the body of a speedster I plan on building, that and midnight blue fenders & running boards with polish aluminium hood.
Larry, the car is three tones of yellow and with all the different lamp styles in the shop, and pictures being taken in different rooms, none of the colors are correct. If we get some sun this weekend, I'll take some shots of all three outside in the sun so you can see better.
I got out voted on the polished hood but I do like that look.
Body and tank are same color.
Here's some more of today's work on the throttle linkage. Who knew Henry would have a hole through the block. Works smooth and fail tested.
Now to clean them up, paint and plating.
I think that this project is a labor of love. And I love it. Maybe because I'm in my 30's and I own T's and 60's muscle cars (bitchin Yellow 67 Chevelle Charles).
As for Bernard's questions, answer them yourself with the answer that goes "Because Charles and/or Becky WANTS to." No one answers to no one in defense when it comes to creating a car with your hands.
Use your talents. Your mind is only as strong as what it can tell your hands to do..
It's been a busy few days with the holidays and getting the show cars ready, so we have been a little lax on Becky's Hot Yellow T but we did get a few items ready for install, here is the completed exhaust and a few linkage items for the fuel system.
Exhaust ceramic coated and fuel linkage powder coated.
My god, that is impressive Charley! ...Makes me want to build another early speedster! I love all the brass work....but I gotta say, it really needs all white or gray tires
Interested in your next roadster/speedster project..
....I have allot of fun with mine
...and my buddies green speedster..The "Becker Special"
Lol just noticed this but who is the guy with the chin strap and hat riding with both of you in those individual pictures?
@Clayton, love that car of yours it really got me wanting to build a T for myself, so I'm selling off a few projects to build a Ed Roth meets Henry Ford style Speedy. Your car reminds me of the type of car a young person back in the day if he had a job at a Gas Station could build and still have a girlfriend for Saturday night, can't beat that look. You'll be hearing from me, with questions, so far got a cut down 32 Ford shell with stainless grill and a sprint car quick change with center mount disk brakes and maybe a Buick or White teen's frame, but got to ask for the frame.
And I'm with you on the white tires, there still wrapped and will go on once we do all the shake down and have the Beckster all sorted out. Can't wait to show you guy's the new Dashhound tag bracket.
In the first pic, that is me behind the wheel and my childhood friend of 23 years Dan riding shotgun..
In the second pic, that's Dan again riding shotgun with Chris Becker at the wheel of the "Special"...wearing his WW1 canvas flight helmet and flying goggles...
When we drive...we do it in style
Thank you kindly!
That is EXACTLY the spirit I was going for on my car:
"the type of car a young person back in the early 1930's,if he had a job at a Gas Station, could build and still have a girlfriend for Saturday night"
If you have questions, please ask....I would love to help if I can.
Early Buick of White frame? Whites are not common, do you know someone that has a stash of White goodies?
As for the tires...I guess we are like minded and you are way ahead of us ....can't WAIT to see this car (and the roadster) done!
Becky has a stash of White's, I think a big 6 cylinder 11 or 14 roadster is our next project.
Are a Steamer. I really never paid to much attention to these old cars till I started messing with the yellow car, I wanted her to get a front engine AA/Fuel Dragster, so we could hang it in the shop above the bar.
Really? my buddy Chris (the one driving the speedster) has a '13 White GAF-30 touring. It is original (save for the paint) and is complete. It is our next project.
He has a second 30hp '14 White engine and trans that are mine if I want to build one. I would love to, but finding a White GAF frame, axles, etc isn't easy....as well as people that deal with them, especially the gas cars.
I'll post a picture for you tonight, got to go back to working.
Here you go, and the White frame is way to heavy for a rod.
I like your car. Just wish you could have made a couple more of them and even better,that I could afford to buy one.
I didn't think I would ever see a surviving White GF "60" hp 6-cylinder roadster. White gas cars are not common...White "60"s are even rarer, but I didn't think any White "60" roadster survived.
Based on the body style, I would have to say Becky's car is a 1912, not a '13. I think '12 was the only year for this style of roadster body.
Eventually, I want to piece together a White of my own.
Some rear brake work and emergency brake set-up.
1993 Nissan rear shoes, backing plates, and cables all working through stock pedals and lever.
Got some more parts to reshape and paint so this maybe it for a few days.
Real brakes on a T? How can that be any fun?
Are your rear fender irons originals,or did you make them?
@Jack, as far as I know one is 3/4 original and the other is about 30 % original, both where in really bad shape so we cut them up and added bar stock and hand shaped them to look original, we spent a lot of time looking at old Model T books to get them as close as we could. This is a working T so it has to be able to stop and go and keep the old T flavor at the same time.
Got some other projects to work on the next few weeks so don't know how much work will be done on the yellow car, but we keep cracking at it.
Wow, Charley -- Clean shop rags and a clean floor! My shop doesn't have either.
Beautiful work, by the way.
Lol Mike - I noticed the floor and rags too. What kind of magical place IS that!? It's definitely not real. Gotta be a photoshop or something. =)
"Here is a picture of the rear center section all hand machined from one solid steel block and machined for modern bearings. We used an original 1911 center for outside dimensions."
Charley, I can't believe that nobody asked about this! Too busy criticizing I guess. Tell us about this hand machined housing! Do you have pictures? Did you use "T" gears and internals adapted to modern bearings or are they Model A or something altogether different?
Can you post a pic of the outside of the backing plate? curious on how you adapted it to the T axle shafts......might do something like this on my T is a way.
Here you go Clayton and I'll post some pictures later of before paint.
Very nice, clean and functional!
I have a set of early Lockheed-Wagner or Lockheed-Chrysler breaks from a 1925 Chrysler.
I will be retrofitting my T with these on all 4 wheels. I want to pehaps add a small set of drum brakes like this inside the Lockheed's in the rear for safety and a parking brake.
This gives me plenty of ideas!
@Clayton a lot of the modern FWD cars have rear brake drums with two set's of rear shoes primary and emergency, very compact.
Our '93 XJ-6 had rear disc brakes with small drum/shoes for park brake. They would barely slow the car when I tried them.
Most rear drum setups have a pull cable that actuates the normal shoes for the e-brake.
The lever (1) is the attach point for the cable on these 8" Nash Metropolitan brakes.
Rear drum brakes have one leading shoe in each direction, meaning most of the stopping is done with one shoe. Front drum brakes have two leading shoes for forward, and don't stop so good going backwards.
Disc brakes stop equally well in both directions, but they stand out like a silver dollar in a mud hole.
Clayton, here is the only picture I could find today of the axle house unpainted, I'll keep looking, but here's a picture of the last T I built.
I think I could work in a set of those small drum brakes w/ a cable actuated e-brake inside my big Lockheed-Wagner brakes in the back.
I'd still like to know about that center section of the rear axle. What bearings did you use? What internals, did you use a "T" differential and ring and pinion or something else?
A little suspension work and a little carb rebuild.
Got her up and running today, no problems after second try she came to life purred like a kitten.
Here's a few pictures you can see the fan going around. We do need to put a fuel regulator in the line. We did fine that out.
We also ran the brake lines earlier in the week and installed battery,it can be removed from the bottom for service.
YOU SIR!!!! HAVE MY COMPLETE ATTENTION!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS... YOU ARE THE FIRST TO PICK MY ATTENTION ON A HOT RODDED T engined car!!! I KID YOU NOT.
One of the things I have NEVER liked on a T go-job is that they NEVER LOOK right! Proportions are all wrong. I loved what Norm Grabowski did in the 50's when I was just a junior high lad. And what TV Tommy did in coping Norm's. I have built and ran 4 of those T buckets. I have one or two more to do like that yet if time allows.
I have an 11 torpedo and was going to keep it original BUT after seeing this car!!!!! WOW (my hat is definitely off to you SIR!)
Your balance beam bar break set up!!!! I put stuff like that on a 911 Porsche, a Lamborghini Countach, and one of my 34 Hot rods. But on a T!!!!!!
Also that rear pumpkin!!!! I have been trying to run down the diseased fella who use to cast those without any success as I need 1 for my 12. Those breaks!!!!!
I HOPE that we get to meet someplace someday! I have most of the stuff you are using but not the engine!!! I find that building a T engine costs as much as a BBC on steroids! Maybe more today.
YOU DEFINITELY GOT MY ATTENTION!
I am sure this forum of yours has been going for awhile. ??? I would usually have NEVER opened it up as it is not a restored car and I really always thought people built these because they lacked the skills or the parts $$$ to put one back properly. But this car is amazing!
You shouldn't need a regulator if you use the pump for a foreign car, 1 to 4 psi. Last one I bought was $30 at Autozoned.
@Joseph, thanks, this has been a total team effort, we really are trying to keep it as original as we can, and still be safe to be driven every day on city streets and expressways. We also had trouble finding a good rear axle assy for a 1911 and all the one's we found had cracks, so we borrowed one to copy and just machined or own and added modern bearings, seals but used the 11 ring and pinion gears.
Charles - Beautiful work, beautiful car and beautiful photography! Looks to me like you could have (or maybe should have) been a jeweler!
One question; unless I missed something, I don't see any additional support for the auxiliary transmission, and it would seem that the additional weight of the dual master cylinders attached to the auxiliary trans, plus the added forces when pressure is added to the master cylinders, would require more support than only the support offered by the stock Ford set up. Or, do you feel that the '26-'27 hogshead which at the top is bolted to the rear of the engine block is enough?
I'm making an assumption here, as it's hard to see in the pictures, but from one photo I can almost see the edge of one of those lugs at the top of the hogshead which would indicate the '26-'27 design. If so, do you feel that that will be enough support? Just wondering, and from the excellent engineering, I have little doubt that you don't anticipate a problem in this area,........harold
Hmmmm,....in further study of your photos Charles, I now see that the front running board cross brace crosses under the auxiliary transmission close enough that perhaps some sort of extra support for the aux. trans. could be added by use of that cross brace. Again, just wondering your thoughts on all that weight hanging off of the rear of the engine.
Well Becky has us working on a greenhouse so we are a little off track on working on the Yellow T, but next week we are to start on her T-pickup truck for her to haul flowers around, so here is a few pictures of what we have gotten done.
She is a kind boss and always takes good care of us guys and our animals.
You can start to see the three tone yellow paint at this point.
Thanks Jim, we are almost ready to set the body on and then just a few more days work.
What a WONDERFUL posting! I am just starting on my own speedster project, and while I can't BEGIN to afford anything like this, it is FULL of great ideas and pictures.
Thanks, You are a tribute to this hobby!
Thanks Jon for bringing this thread back to the top. I am soooo anxious to see the final, assembled product. Becky's T is truly a work of art by dedicated craftsmen.
In those earlier throttle pictures that you showed, what model of Winfield carb is that? I am thinking of using Mark Chaffin's Rajo Kit, and he includes a manifold set up for a Winfield M201-B, so I am considering that and ways to hook up the throttle.
Thanks for your great post and any ideas.
Charles, could you please start a new thread, rather than add to this long one that takes the slower guys a loong time to load?
How about a video of it running????
OK! Sorry guys ! I'll start a new thread my next post.
Becky is working us hard to finish.
I would sure like to meet this lady "Becky"! She is not like any woman I ever knew!
Wish I had one like her...
Bump a friend wants to see these pictures.