Ford Model W ?!!-Photo

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Ford Model W ?!!-Photo
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 02:04 pm:



Must be an advanced ad it is from 1907.

This is from a website for old car brochures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 02:42 pm:

Nice find Herb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 03:17 pm:

Herb,

It is an interesting advertisement. Don Black sent me a link to what I believe is the same web site at: http://www.lov2xlr8.no/broch1.html click on Ford and then 1907. Note that the cars do NOT have the traditional transmission sump that the Model Ts from 1908 – 1927 have. It also has the N,R,S, & SR low and high speed lever on the driver’s side. It is also the N,R,S, and SR RHD with the SR (Model S Roadster) metal cowl on the touring car. The site listed Anders De Lange from Norway as the contributor. I’ve added it to my “follow up and find more information” folder under the NRS&SR Fords. I hope we can find more information on when and where the advertisement appeared.

Carl Pate in his book “Pate’s Early Automobile Encyclopedia” page 40 of 47 chapter 3 Advertisements and Articles shows a similar 3/4 view illustration of a touring car from the Jan 5, 1908 “The Daily News” Denver Colorado and an almost identical but better illustration of the touring car in the Mar 1, 1908 Minneapolis Sun Journal. In the Journal the illustration is more detailed but the one on the web site has the front and rear wheel spokes in the same positions, high low shift lever same position same style lights.

Clearly Ford was hoping to bring out the Model T earlier than he was finally able to bring it out. But in this case I believe those illustrations are of the S & SR chassis fitted with the Landaulet and touring bodies. Both of those style bodies/cars were available for sale in England prior to the introduction of the Model T Ford.

If anyone has additional information on where or when the illustration was used, please let us know.

Herb, thank you for posting the illustration. Hopefully others will be able to add additional information.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 05:29 pm:

Yes Hap Don sent that to me also. That is where I found it.
When I saw that there was a link for 1907 I was excited to think there might be a brochure for Rob's Model K :-) but then I found the ad above!
Sorry Rob.

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 05:54 pm:

Herb, Ford had ads out as early as late October 1907 telling customers to buy the K, N or S. And if they wanted the new "light tourings", to wait until March. Later the ads said to wait until June.

Meanwhile, the "light touring" and taxi/laundolet were shown in drawings. One article below says the light touring and taxi are being shown in London in December of 1907. Another says the new Ford's are shown at the New York November 1907 show at the Grand Palace.



The lasts is an article saying the new Ford is being made beside the N/S in the summer of 1908.

Interestingly the specs (and sump, as Hap pointed) only mention or show storage batteries, no magneto.











Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 08:41 pm:

The front axle in the picture is not under the radiator like a T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 10:52 pm:

Aaron,
No, I call it an "ST". Lot's of similarities to a Model S Roadster (including side lever shift, probably indicating a separate transmission from the crankcase). It would be interesting to know if this is where the NRS type engine with a removable head were intended to be used (a few prototypes around).
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, May 12, 2013 - 10:06 pm:

Herb, Hap, Rob

Although I don't think these English Model letters are relative to US models letters, it does support the theory of other Early Model T Fords pre Oct 1908 have letter models to distinguish body styles.

Here are Letter Model Listings S O P & L Fords and relative body styles for England.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 12:41 pm:

Mark,

Great find. I think it's possible Ford literally used all or most of the alphabet. In the following excerpt from the 1905 FY report (delivered to stockholders in Oct 1906), both a Model G and H are noted (as assets).

I've also seen a line item for "experimental" in one of the directors meetings (can't find it at the moment). Also, these experimental models evidently did not involve racers, as those expenses are included in "advertising".



And, an Oct 1907 Ford advertisement showing the models for 1908. Included is a description of the new model (T). The ad also says the new model will be available in February (1908).



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 01:44 pm:

Rob,

You mention, "...the NRS type engine with a removable head were intended to be used (a few prototypes around)."

What other prototypes do you know of, besides the one that is now on loan to the Ford Piquette Plant?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 02:08 pm:

Jerry,

That is the only one I'm aware of (definite). I thought there is another, possibly at the museum of speed in Lincoln?.

Is there a possibility the one at Piquette has a longer stroke or bigger bore, making it a 20 hp?

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 04:44 pm:

Rob,

To my knowledge, the Piquette example has stock NRS bore & stroke. Only the cylinder castings have been changed, and of course, a head has been added. Now, that being said, I have not disassembled the engine but, just had some peeks inside. Other than some very careful cleaning, I didn't want to disturb it's untouched look. So, I'm saying that I may not be 100% accurate as I have not actually measured anything. (I think NRS bore size is the same as a T, but stroke might be different.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 10:37 pm:

Jerry,

It would be quite a discovery to find that engine was actually the T 20 hp prototype shown in numerous drawings (no sump or mag) and actually displayed at the London show. I believe John Biggs is researching the London show too. It would be great to find an actual photo of the T prototype. Interestingly, the wheelbase is a bit less than a T too.

Would it be possible to determine if the stroke is the same as an NRS without disturbing anything?

Rob


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