I purchased a set of these bearings to put in a car that I do not plan on using a lot. I would have prefered to buy Timkens, which I assume are made in the states. Just thought I would try and see how they hold up.
Anyone else use them, and what do you think of them and how well they are made?
I am curious too.
I have used them, no issue to report, but I maintained them regularly. Dont know how they would react to severe abuse or use, but who plans on doing that. Timkins also makes their bearings in China and the USA from what I understand and its fairly easy to find a Timkin China bearing in a "Made in USA" box..
I didn't even know there was such a thing. I just bought some Timkens from Rock Auto because of the good prices.
They are 44.50 a pair, they work as designed, but they do not have the wrench cut-outs on the side, but I just used l-shaped need nosed pliers to snug them into place.
If enough of you buy the cheesey crap chinese bearings Timken will quit making good ones. Stop buying inferior crap from other countries.
I'm also behind Royce on this subject - keep buying the cheap crap and that's all we'll be able to purchase !
Ditto, Royce & Steve!
Anyone check out the large roller bearings for Ruckstells sold by some vendors. Hard to find one made in USA. Last one I purchased was made in India and didn't have much of a groove in the race, allowing movement unless the pre load was just right. Sign of the times. I guess we should be happy something close to right is available. Imagine if we were restoring an exotic car where parts would have to be made or modified to work. Anymore I use original roller bearings unless they are obviously worn out rusted or damaged.
I bought a set a while back when no one had any Timkens in stock. I do NOT like them. The threaded insert appears to have been threaded before being pressed into the bearing. When it is pressed into the bearing, it shrinks and makes for a very tight fit on the threaded portion of the spindle. This makes them very difficult to adjust. It's hard to tell whether the resistance you are feeling is due to the bearing tightening up or just due to the tight fit of the threads.
It should be possible to make them a better fit, by either threading them a bit oversize before pressing them in or by threading or re-threading them afterwards. I understand that neither of these is desirable from a manufacturing standpoint and that is why they do it the way they do it. I also understand why Timken prefers to only run the threaded bearings once in a blue moon when they have enough orders to make it worth their while. There is no reason why someone can't use an American made bearing and do the same type of insert. I know I would pay the difference for an American bearing.
Rock Auto has Timken bearings for little less than $50.
I see that the bearing in the above photo is made by PEER. The local bearing supplier that I have used for decades had told me to "always put a PEER bearing back and buy something better quality".
I had to replace the bearings in the idler pulleys on my tractors mower deck (Woods 59), I bought the bearings direct from the Woods Equipment dealer and they failed in about 2 months, PEER bearings. I crossed the number over to Timken and they have been running fine now for 3 years, at half the price. The Timken bearings may have been marked "Made in Romania" but they are made to Timken specs and are light-years better than the OEM supplied PEER bearings.
Set the PEER bearings back down and buy the Timken bearings.
While I usually will defend Chinese items made in a Tier 1 shop when such is no longer manufactured here...I run from Chinese bearings whenever possible!
Ask any Chinese bearing maker what is the rated B10/L10 life; or what is the 'Cr' or 'C90' value they started with to determine projected bearing reliability and the stock answer from all is 'what do those things mean...and why are you asking?'
Clue #1 guys...
There are two bearings available for Ruckstells - one is a good old Made in U.S.A. or the less expensive, imported - you usually get what you pay for when it comes to quality !
I'd never use a Chinese tapered roller bearing. You can get away with a ball bearing in some applications but a tapered roller bearing?
Dave, I can probably sell genuine Timken or BCA or some other brand made in the US for close to what you paid retail for the import stuff.
And to Ed - if your seeing Timken bearings with "Made in China" on them then you're buying knock-offs.
George, I talk to seasoned millwrights who don't understand L10 life, but that's where the rubber meets the road, assuming the mfg has put correct data in their specs.
I face the same conditions daily as a machine builder...my short stock answer as to L10? 10% just are not going to make that number, even with perfect fitting...and that 10% includes those that die way earlier and even with infant mortality...with no reason for the bearing maker or the machine builder to have to explain why! Yeah, raises a few eyebrows from time to time...but completely factual
Danial, the made in China Timkin issue has been around for a while, depending on the type of bearing. Here is a post from Two Guys Garage talking about the issue. I think its an issue of TIMKIN purchasing bearings from another supplier and selling them under their name?
Once upon a time there were beaucoup bearing manufacturers in the USA, now there are three or so. Once upon a time there were several cross country railroads in the USA, now there are two. Once there beaucoup......in the US, now there are few. Once there were beaucoup good paying manufacturing jobs in the USA, now there are few.
The federal government refuses to enforce the Clayton an Sherman Anti-Trust Acts. Corporations are larger than countries.
Until we find a way to elect congressmen, senators and the like who put country first, rather than winning the next election we are just going get more of the shaft. Until then we will continue to have the best government money can buy.
Well said, Ted.
I sell Timken Ed, and nothing I sell comes from China. I deal with the company almost daily and probably sell $25,000 worth of their product per year (just a guess). Until I hear it from Timken, I "ain't buyin'" it.
From what I read here:
1 person has used them and has had no problem.
1 Person used them and didn't like them because they were hard to thread on the spindle.
A bunch of other people don't like them because they are a Chinese bearing, a Peer bearing, etc.
So far nobody has posted that they actually used them and had a problem.
I understand that the Timkin bearings are the preferred bearing (I feel the same), but Timkin bearings are not always available and sometimes there is a many month long wait to get them. The question is are these bearings an acceptable alternative? I would say YES if people are using them and not having a problem (regardless of if they are Chinese), and NO if they are failing during use.
I know that a bunch of these have been sold. Has anyone used these and actually had a problem?
Well, here you go Danial, straight from Timkin. They do make bearings in China.
Thanks Ed. Then I'm guessing someone is back-dooring them in. NOTHING we get is made in China. And I wouldn't accept the product either if they tried sending it to us. My clients would tell me to go pound sand. ANd for good reason - only crap comes from China on most steel products.
Maybe the discount auto parts are selling that crap or the discount auto-repair shops, but none of the real bearing houses will be pushing it. Not around here anyway.
But thanks for the heads up - I'll be even more diligent to keep that garbage out of my shop.
Dave my industrial customers have problems with them every time they try them (Chinese bearings in general). I will take the word/words of veteran carded millwrights and electricians over a salesman that says "they're just as good only cheaper!" hahaha...
But hey buy them if your comfort level is there.
I won't. I know better.
"The bitter taste of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." . . Or some such.
ChiCom crap is cheap, but you have to replace it more often, increasing the cost to own.
I remember Pres. Bush at a campaign stop at a Timken factory in Ohio in 2004, praising Made in USA. Shortly after the election, the plant was closed and everything, including the jobs, was shipped to the ChiComs.
The three front wheel bearings I bought last month from Rock Auto were $48.79 each. Made in Canada. I have an older one, marked USA, which I got a couple of years ago. I think the prices was about the same. For a difference of only $4 more, I'll stay with the North American product.
I had one of the china bearings become loose due to the press fit moving. I pressed it completely apart, cleaned the parts well with lacquer cleaner and pressed them back together using lock-tight bearing compound. That was last year so not too many miles but so far no problems-- Joe
What's the part numbers for the Rock
Auto bearings without the insert?
Rock Auto has the parts listed as Timken P/N 09075 for LH and 09076 for RH
oops, never mind. I think those are the numbers for the ones with the inserts....
You've lost me. Inserts?
Are the cheapos just regular bearings with threaded inserts in them?
I think the ones from Rock Auto has the actual inner race threaded?
The Rock Auto is a Timken part number so I think it will come with a threaded race and Not an insert. I called them but of course the guy didn't know for sure other than authentic Timkens. I think I'll try it. I'm going thru my front wheels and see a couple of bad spots.
That Rock Auto site works great and lists all the cups and cones for the Model T when you search. Prices are good too!
When I looked at my old bearings I found the Timken one has an EXTRA Roller compared to the other ones I have! You get what you pay for.
Just to clarify what we're talking about, here's one of the bearings I bought from Rock Auto last month.
And just to clarify - The Peer bearings with inserts from Lang's are $44.50 a pair and Steve's Rock Auto Timkens were $97.58 a pair, considerably more than $4 difference.
It would be possible to put inserts in Model A Timkens for better quality budget bearings - perhaps that's what Snyder's does, they have budget outer bearings with loose inserts and races sold as a set for $66.50 per side: http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/5225
Rock Auto seems like a better deal for original style Timkens - Lang's wants $72.95 each and Snyder's wants $84 each.
I've got limited funds and had to choose Lang's budget bearings - still expect they'll last fine for the low load they'll get in my light roadster.
The races are NOS Timkens, might help
OOoops! I didn't notice that was a price per pair. But given the reputation of Chinese steel products, I'm still not sure it's a better deal.
It's $176. for a complete set of the Timken from Rock Auto. Just didn't like the idea of buying new glued together parts. It's not like I did it to get it back together. I think it's a good idea though, the insert thing.
I have a couple of good inner cone and cups if any can use them.
Since I had mine open I decided to go whole hog since I do a fair amount of touring.
I've sold several sets of the aftermarket bearings and have not had any complaints. I've installed the aftermarket bearings in a few T's as well and I did not notice any issues. I never noticed any bind on the threads. They always threaded on smoothly by hand. I've also sold dozens of Timken sets. I have found that most customers do prefer the Timkens, but I have not found any problem with the aftermarket ones either.
I will second what Adam said. I used a set several years ago when either the left or right Timken bearing was unavailable (don't recall). I drive the car several thousand miles/year and have noticed no problems other than I DID have some binding upon installation. Running the threads on/off the spindle a couple of times worked in the threads fine. They're annoying to adjust...that's about it. I prefer Timken brand due to their long history and assuming them to still be a quality supplier. The Timkens I've purchased since then appear to meet that standard.
It would be interesting to hear from someone who trailers their car long distances and hear how the races hold up to false brinneling relative to Timken. I suspect that's where differences in metalurgy will show up most apparent.
I must have gotten a set on the tight side of the tolerance. You would ruin a pair of needle nose trying to tighten these by putting the tips down in those notches. I had to use a pair of channel locks on the inner race. They are hardened, so it doesn't gall them up, but it's hard to get a grip on them. It just slips unless you really grip them hard. A real pain in the backside.
But, I can't complain about the operation. They have given no problem once I got them adjusted.
SKF Ruckstell bearings are available -- usually in stock -- at any good bearing supply house. The part number IIRC is 7212 BCBY. All ball bearings as far as I know are sized in Metric. The correct Ruckstell thrust bearing is 60 x 110 x 22. (inner, outer, width) The BCBY shows that it is a standard thrust. There is another for heavier thrust loads that I believe is a BCBYBE. Fafnir also has a correct bearing, also US or French made. I've used a bunch of those. There are good Japanese brands, too. I have not used any Chinese bearings so I don't know how their quality is.