Last week's attempt to start the new engine in my "Problem Child", a mostly 1923 Runabout failed when the main 25 amp fuse blew and the motor stopped after only seconds of running. I could find no electrical problems but for the red wire to the magneto which had pulled away from its crimped connector on the magneto post. I fixed this but do not believe it could have been the culprit as no magneto is fitted and the switch was set to BAT not MAG. Nothing else looked amiss and everything worked fine.
Well, that didn't turn out to be quite true, the motor would not fire at all even thought the coils were hot. We began to suspect that whatever had fried the fuse might have fried the E-Timer at the same time. Having no way to test the E-Timer, I removed it and substituted the old Anderson timer after some cleaning up. I used the little Ford tool to set the timing and made a new timer rod to fit.
After a few false starts the motor started right up and ran pretty well. It wanted full advance even at the fast idle. I ran the motor for 5 or 10 minutes and shut it down. I heard no bad noises from the motor itself but thought I heard some clattering from the transmission someplace. This may be a phantom sound like a pilot hears when flying an airplane over a large body of water. I shut the motor down and will be draining the oil for inspection and looking inside the cover of the transmission. I left the bands very loose and possibly they just want tightening.
I'll check the tightness of head bolts, manifold bolts and anything else that might have rattled loose. Also, the motor ran as if it had too much retard so I'll follow the procedure and set the Anderson timer by the book.
Right now with no working E-Timer and no magneto (boy, was it ever a mistake to leave that out!) it can only run on 6 volts.
I shot shot some video on the iPhone for the first time ever. First there is a walk around just before the first attempt to start the motor:
Then the motor running very shortly after it started last weekend:
How does it look and sound to you?
BTW, if you have never shot video before, it is very easy and posting it on youtube is straight forward.
You might want to adjust your 3rd brush to decrease the amperage output to 6-8 amps - that whine could be the generator !
Why was the ammeter showing such an overcharge after you already used a charger on the battery ??
You stated the generator was rebuilt..... now send it back to have the charging rate properly set..... after all what DID you pay for ???
Don't fiddle with the E-Timer... just send it back to Mike Kossor for his evaluation
I have one of those third brush adjusting wrenches and hope I can do this myself. Once the motor is sorted out I have one of the Fun Project regulators to install. I just didn't want to do it to start with as there are already so many other things to fret over.
I'll look in the book to see how to adjust that third brush.
Bob - I have emailed Mike about this. I'm not sure what happened and the E-Timer was working at the start. Before starting the motor it produced a nice fat spark.
Just send the generator back to your vendor, I'm sure he wants to know WHY the charging rate is so high. Do the same with the E-Timer.
Both of your vendors are reputable people and will do their best to correct the problem/damage.
Worrying solved nothing.....
"...Anderson timer after some cleaning up. I used the little Ford tool to set the timing and made a new timer rod to fit."
The Ford tool is only valid for the Ford timer. You need to set the Anderson timer by other methods.
Yes, your generator output is WAY too high. It's a simple matter to reset it. I wouldn't begin to think of returning it unless it doesn't come down enough through the usual adjustment method. (Slide the third brush away from the engine and snug the lock nut back down. Don't over tighten the lock nut. Don't adjust by using the 4 small screws on the back of the generator!)
Bob; Sending the gen back to the vendor seems a bit overkill. Setting the correct amps is simple and can be done faster than it takes for you to remove the gen from the motor.
Paul; You will need to address this overcharging soon as you risk damaging the gen if left where it is.
To adjust the amps, remove the brush cover and loosen the third brush nut just enough to allow the third brush holder to slide. Moving the holder toward the frame reduces the amps.
I usually aim for 9-10 amps at around 1000-1200 rpm and check it by turning on the lights. With the lights on, the ammeter should read 0-1 amp.
How about just installing the FP regulator? Job done.
I don't believe it's overkill to send an item back to a vendor who rebuilds a generator.
Sure, setting the third brush will change the charge rate....... but are you sure the brush holder has been properly set before the third brush was adjusted ???
This whole thing may be a loose third brush adjustment ?? Did the armature throw solder from being overheated at high charge rate ??
If I pay good money for a item, and doesn't perform/operate as new, I will send back . Might as well throw your cash out the window with a different attitude.
Would you put up with substandard ??
I repeat, both vendors mentioned by Paul are reputable, and will be interested why there is a problem. Fixing it yourself doesn't help them. The inconvenience of shipping and the time involved is annoying, but you're a big boy and can accept.
I'll try adjusting the generator first. That is FAR easier than R&Ring the darn thing and then UPSing or spending half a Saturday driving up there. This probably is just an adjustment issue anyway. At least we know the thing puts out juice!
Ralph - I already have one of those little jewels in my diminishing pile of parts to be added. I'll wait until some of these other issues are resolved.
How does the motor sound guys? My ears think it sounds pretty good until maybe something in the gearbox makes a racket but could just be my fear doing the hearing.
If it continues to over generate even with the 3rd brush all the way out you will HAVE to adjust the entire brush holder by loosening the 4 tiny screws on the back of the generator.
It's unlikely you will manage to loosen them with the genny in the engine.......grrrrrrr
SO.......yank the generator, loosen the screws to the point where you can turn the brush holder and set the 3rd brush at a midway position.
Slam it back on, start the engine and set the throttle at about mid driving speed, turn on the lights and turn the brush holder until the ammeter reads 0 or even slightly less than 0.
Tighten one of the tiny screws, yank it again to tighten the rest of the screws and install it again.
There should be enough adjustment with the 3rd brush to fine tune the charging rate.
Paul, regardless of the position of the third brush, the FP regulator will keep the gen from working too hard. Do you have to open the gen to install the regulator?
Do not just install the voltage regulator with the generator not working properly or you will damage it.
I'll look into the generator issues Thursday after work or mebbee even Saturday morning. I'll be doing the timing then also.
The FP regulator bolts on in place of the cutout. There is a procedure to get it dialed in, it is not a simple bolt up. That is why I decided to hold off on this until other items are sorted out.
For a little light work before dinner I drained the oil - it looked pretty much like new oil. No water, gear teeth, filings and very little discoloration. It did only run 5 or 10 minutes . . .
I fitted one of Lang's neoprene seals to the fuel line/sediment bulb connection under the tank. I sealed it up with a product called Swack that is supposed to be hot stuff. So far, no seeps. I left the tap under the tank on and will periodically check to see if there are any signs of trouble.
The head bolts wanted tightening as did the manifold clamp nuts & the big exhaust packing nut. I ran outta time to work on this for now but look forward to taking it up soon. Things finally seem to be moving forward!
I just emptied the oil drain pan off into a 1 gallon jug and took the opportunity to look the oil over in broad daylight. First, there is no sign of water in the oil, great news considering that a blown head gasket leaking water into the crankcase is where this long voyage of discovery started.
Even with my glasses on, there were no large chunks of metal or even any filings visible. I did notice some darkening and have to think this due to the new rings needing to seat on the new bores.
Overall, things are looking good here!
I would not expect any vendor to be able to adjust a 3 brush generator on a bench to work just as it should in a given car.There is just too many variables that could be different. And unless you have a Fun Project VR - adjusting the 3rd brush is a standard procedure if you want to keep your battery healthy and then have to drive with lights on (for a longer period).
However -if it can't be adjusted down enough - then the base adjustment of the 4 screws are not in order and it's another story.
Michael D said it well.
I have always believed that under-charging a little bit is better than over-charging. Over-charging is bad for both the generator and the battery. Unless you do an awful lot of night driving, discharging about two or three amps with all the lights on generally will not hurt anything. That usually leaves it charging plenty during the day with the lights off.
Paul O, It sounds like things are going better. You can do it! That car could yet become the "comfort zone" of your daily life. Ts do that for many people. "Become one with the T."
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thanks guys, I too regard this as a matter of adjustment right now. I have just posted a picture on a new thread about this process. Right now I'm going to try timing the car and look into the oil leak. I spotted a leak either from higher on the hogshead or perhaps even from the tappet cover:
This leads directly down to the area that seems to be leaking:
The light had to be just right to even see this leak.
When I put the tappet cover on, I used gasket goop only on the cover side, not on the block side thinking this would make removal for tappet adjustments easier. Mebbee it would be better to seal the joints with gasket goop on both sides and just reconcile myself to scraping off the old gasket and using a new one each time.
I sure need a comfort zone with this thing. So far, it has been a trial.
Vintage Paul, off to have another bash . . .
You need to let it leak a little more, that's way to clean to be a model T. I thought T stood for Trials and Tribulations. Grin