Looks more like a 14
Engine #326214 is august 1913 production. Model year 1914 started in august 1913 according to Bruce's encyclopedia so it might be a '14 model originally registered in 1913 as a 1913?
More & better pictures might tell if the door is '13 or '14 style - the turtle deck looks '14. Maybe someone can see enough of the windshield to tell whether it folds forwards or rearwards?
here it is lightened, BUT, the doors are rounded and the turtle deck ( trunk ) is curved... not sharp like the 13.
certainly a 1914 body vehicle.
hmmm a little bigger David.
The rear fenders are 1915-1916.
The rear end is 1913-1914.
The windshield support arms are curved like a 1914.
looks like a '14
nuts...got a picture of curved door, but can't upload.
I agree with above posters...this is a '14.
since titles didn't come that early, it's probably simply a recording error when titled. I own a '13 which is titled '14, and the original title was issued in the mid '20's.
also see that it has later 13-14 coilbox. Looks like a nice survivor.
So what would a car like this be valued at?
Some of the very early 1914 style cars were built in July and August of 1913. Some folks call them "1913's". I have 312,500- and it is a '14 style touring. A friend of mine has 335,000+ and it is a '13 style touring. They seem to have been building them at the same time.
These early '14's will generally have two piece drive shafts, '13 style fenders, pipe plug engines, aluminum crank handles, Stewart 26 or 100 speedometers. The flat top coil box had been used before the '14 style cars came in July. Trans on 312,500 was assembled on July 11, 1913 and DB furnished most all engine/drivetrain components.
Ken in Texas
Since guessing is so much fun, my guess is that the car will be bid up to about $16,500. It could go higher but my feeling is it won't based on condition. I personally love cars like that, but most T-folks try to figure out what it would take to completely restore it, and that will keep bidding lower.
I have 3346** and its the 13 style, apparently there are both, factory and dealer assembled versions, which muddied the water somewhat.
If you look in the Encyclopedia, July 1, 1913, you will see what may have happened. Hap has commented on the issue several years ago.
The 1913 style touring body had presented such a weak situation in the sills of the rear section. Special braces had been sent to dealers to repair the weak 1913 touring cars. Therefore, 1914 touring bodies seem to have been put into the production line in the first week or so of July 1913, as soon as they could be obtained.
Anyone else have a '14 style touring car with serial numbers in the 300,000 to 348,000 range made by Beaudette?
Also, does anyone have a '13 style touring car with serial numbers in the 300,000 to 348,000 range made by Beaudette?
I suspect that most early 1914 style touring cars had bodies built by Beaudette, 300,000 to 348,000.
Ken in Texas
Dennis, truth be told it's value would be what someone is willing to pay for it. Bernard thinks it will bid up to $16,500 and he may well be correct. It all depends on what the buyer wants. Looking at the photos I would say the buyer will have a big investment to make it road safe for driving. However you can never tell by looking at photos on the web. Anyone really interested in buying an antique auto should see it in person before making an offer.
Happy Motoring, Warren
Ken, close but no cigar. My '14 is 378279. Is it known who made bodies in that serial number range?
My 14 touring is 341,XXX. A judge at the Indy Car Show & Swap meet when it was at the race track, every time I showed it, he questioned not having a 2 piece drive shaft.
How would I tell if it is a Beaudette body?
If the engine and transmission need work and the rear end still has the "white alloy" trust washers, I would think the value is around $10,000. Someone might pay $11,000. Much more than that is what I call "vanity dollars". That is where someone brags that they just bought a "$$$$" auto.
By August and probably even June of 1913, BOTH two and single piece drive shafts were being used, as well as blocks with pipe plug and welsh plug water jacket plugs.
Beaudette put a "B" on the rear seat kick panel. It is pressed in the plate up at the top of the panel in the center above the dimple. I have heard that it sometimes is on the front seat kick plate. It is about an inch tall. You will not see it just standing outside the car because it is somewhat under the edge of the rear seat. Richard and Bill, please let us know what you find.
I think there are several body suppliers during this time, Beaudette, Wilson and maybe others.
Pipe plugs seem to have pretty well stopped around December 1913. My friend's 335,000 '13 style touring is a Wilson. His doors even have the same number stamped on them that is under the front edge of the seat and has a one piece drive shaft. He also has the long smooth rear cross member.
The center panel in the rear section of the touring will also have a bead along the bottom edge. I don't know when that stopped but I believe most '14's are smooth at the bottom edge of the rear section.
I just had an idea that if Beaudette began delivering the new 1914 style body in July 1913, that they would not likely keep delivering the '13 style touring with its weakness in the rear door sills. That was the whole reason for beginning the use of the '14 style so soon in the summer of 1913.
If someone has a '13 style Beaudette body touring above #320,000, my idea might be wrong. However, Ford must have been building '13 and '14 style touring cars at the same time in July, August and September using up Wilson and other bodies.
Bruce's book has one of these early '14s on page 177. It is #355,995 which is in the "1914 numbers".
The transmission stub shaft date and engine number on 312,XXX are six days apart 7-11-13/7-17-1913, which is about what you would expect. Stub shaft is the only date other than the 6-19-13 casting date on the car that I know of.
As with many other things that have been discovered, anything can happen and probably did!
Ken in Texas
I have a 1914 Runabout engine number #395707, 12/16/1913 and on the kick plate there is a M B. The B is much larger (1") than the M. The fire wall plate # is 371928 and the casting date on the engine is 11/22/13.
Herbert, Fisher, Wilson and Beaudette made bodies in 1913 and probably 1914. The "B" is a cap with serifs. Sounds like you have a Beaudette body. Date and body number would be stamped on the wood under drivers side seat cushion.
Pipe plug engine?
Take a look at the transmission stub shaft when you have the engine out for a rebuild, etc. Page 106 of Bruce's book shows a photo of one dated. They tend to confirm the build date of the car being 4 to 7 days before placed in a car.
This a photo of mine when we had the engine out of 312,XXX to rebuild. Early cars through at least late 1913 may have the shaft dated.
Ken in Texas
I checked under the seat and the numbers stamped into the wood are 131351 .... 3 (M?) 14. I can't make out what is between the 3 and the 14 (M?).
What would that mean with all of the rest of my T's number posted above?
If the 3 and 14 are separated by a long dash, the length of a number one on its side, it may stand for "March (3) 14". This would seem to go against the December build dates. However, it may be the "dates" like 3-14, 12-13 may very well be order scheduled delivery dates given to suppliers by Ford. Just an idea but it would be a way for Ford to track the suppliers and target delivery. Essentially, the numbers are put on the bodies at the makers and if production is matched up with body orders the numbers would "match" more or less. It would be natural for Ford to get into a batch of bodies from Beaudette scheduled for November in the actual month of August. Also, we know that some other suppliers such as Stewart were unable to keep up the Ford production rates during this very time period.
Ford had ample reason to move ahead with the 1914 style cars very early. The 1913 tourings had been a considerable problem.
Mark, check under the floor boards on the inside right riser and see if there is a number stamped on it. It is the same size as the numbers under the seat. Please let us know if one is there.
Richard, can you help us on this with any of your numbers? Beaudette? on the 341,XXX car. I have been watching this for about 5 years and have more ideas than proof. Hap Tucker has been taking body numbers on this period and may please chime in should he sees this. Trivia but interesting just the same.
I checked the riser and there is no number stamped any where on it. ????
I have what I believe to be a 1923 Coupe. It has suicide doors, metal firewall and the turtle back is separate and bolted to the main cabin. The engine I believe has been replaced with a 1925. I have found a body number stamped into the wood floor - B54184. Does any of this make any sense?
Did you buy it, Bernard? You were pretty much spot on in your guess, it ended at $17,099 :o
I guess I will call J.C.Taylor today and raise the value on my '14 touring.
I'm not in the market anymore for a project. I rather pay more for a car that has been somebody else's baby for many years. I also like the idea of an electric start. If I find a nice Runabout with largely original paint and interior but in fine fettle and with electric start engine, I may be a buyer. Otherwise I'll give others the first right of refusal. I personally do not subscribe to the earlier is more desirable philosophy that many T enthusiasts do. All things being equal, including the price, I take a nice original paint '16 to '25 over a nicely restored '13 to '15 any day. But that's just me.