Front Perch Replacement

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Front Perch Replacement
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 12:40 am:

I want to replace one of the perches in the front. How do I confirm what perch is there so I can get the correct one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 01:16 am:

Well if you are going to replace the right perch

order #3818B Right perch

order #3819B Left perch

These are the number form the Lang's Catalog


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 01:28 am:

Parts 3818 (right) and 3819 (left) have a large hole for the wishbone just above the axle. The ones used from 1909 to 1917 have no hole on top for an oiler. The ones used 1917 to 1919 have an oiler hole on top. Parts 3818-B and 3819-B were used from 1919 through 1927 and have no wishbone hole. Pictures on Page 24 of the 1928 Ford parts book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 05:08 am:

Here's a good front perch thread with pictures: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/68982.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 06:10 am:

Can one of you tell me where these perches are from, and what year .In the main time I made a double wishbone .
Toon
728R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 09:51 am:

Anthonie, those perches are not Ford Standard issue. Some of the accessory shock absorbers had an extended perch like those. They are much taller than standard perches.
Perhaps others will post photos of the whole set-up.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 10:25 am:

Here is one style of accessory front shock with high perch, could be of this variety.



There were 'high-lift' perches made for special application by aftermarket companies, for snow mobiles or for other uses where more clearance was needed, some accessory rear brakes used high lift rear perches for allowing better fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 10:58 am:

Thanks, what I meant was if a previous owner had the wrong one on there (say left and right reversed), is there a way to tell like does one lean one way or the other?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 02:53 pm:

Doug

The factory numbers can help, but easy way of left and right is the flat-topped little 'lug' on the top side of the perch. Its a centering lug used in mfg, and has a small divot in the top of that lug.

Position the perch so that the 'lug' is facing toward to rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 03:02 pm:

Here is another picture to show that relation of the 'lug' to the perch. This is a right perch, note the lug is fully to the rear.



The lug is there to center the perch during mfg, as the perch is offset or angled for proper axle alignment. The lug must face to the rear of the axle or you will get wiggle wobble of the T's front end going down the road!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 04:01 pm:

Thusly... troop

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/21awvw1.jpg[/IMG]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 04:39 pm:

Ok, thanks guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 05:26 pm:

Is the perch Toon pictured the same kind as the ones Ken Meek had on his car? I heard that it was a tall aftermarket perch which broke, causing the wreck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 08:35 pm:

Mike his was similar but his had the above the axle wishbone. The car is still in our area, and the fellow who purchased it is supposed to restore it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 10:02 am:

The one in Toon's picture has the wishbone above the axle, as Ken's did. Maybe it's an illusion, but it looks like the thinnest part of it is just above the wishbone boss, where the most stress would be concentrated (and where Ken's broke).

I'm no engineer, but that just doesn't look like a safe setup to me. Toon, what you do with your car is up to you of course, and I won't presume to tell you what to do with it. But if those were on my car, I'd remove them and use the stock Ford parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 10:15 am:

Kind of a side note here................
Someone correct me here if I am wrong because it's been a long time since I've changed out perches on a Model T. If I do remember correctly I had to use some penetrating oil and a huge wrench to actually rotate the old perches out rather than press them out. Is the usual method to remove perches pressing straight out or rotating out as if the axle hole has threads inside?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 11:25 am:

Mike : As I write in my previous add I made a double wishbone
Toon
760R
761R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 12:04 pm:

Michael P, I removed a perch from a rusty axle a couple of weeks ago. Took lots of heat from the acy/oxy torch on the axle until I could turn the axle with the perch fastened in a vice. Took even more heat until I could put press on the axle with a spud bar while turning it, then slowly I could get the axle off the stationary perch in the vice.

Took some time - should probably have driven the 15 miles to a friend instead - he has a large press. There's a big risk to damage the threads when using a press, though, maybe a special push tool can be made in the lathe that threads on the perch a few threads but still has a small enough diameter to go through the hole in the axle?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 01:22 pm:

Mike,

That is not the style of perch that Ken Meek was using. He was using an aftermarket shock absorber that broke off where the stem meets the flange that sits atop the axle.

That being said, I would still not use anything but a Ford perch in this area. I share your concern over Toon's perch, not because it's like Ken's, but because it's an aftermarket part of unknown origin & quality. In that way, it was like Ken's. The added wishbone does make things somewhat better. I believe if Ken had one, things may have gone differently. My opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 07:48 pm:

Jerry -- Thank you for that information. Of course we'll never know the why's and what-if's about Ken's crash, but I agree that the lower wishbone brace is a good idea.

Toon -- I read that you added the lower wishbone support to your car, and I too feel that is an improvement to the early cars. When I had a '15 Touring Car as my daily driver, I made sure it had a similar brace. My impression is that you have much more experience with Model T's than I do, and I have a great respect for you and your abilities. If it sounded like I was lecturing you about the aftermarket perch, I apologize.

Ken Meek was my friend, and I don't want to hear about any more of our Forum members meeting a similar fate. Like Jerry, I would not use anything but a Ford perch in that application.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, May 30, 2013 - 09:22 pm:

I want to chime in because I have spent a bit of time investigating the Ken Meek perch. The immediate eye witnesses to the accident were the cars following close behind and those cars are all in my chapter and are close friends. I interviewed them and took a long look at the parts that failed but left the structural analysis to a metal engineer who looked at the perches too and we shared info. I have to say that I too feel strongly that I would never have an aftermarket part serving in a place that is life safety critical like the front perch. Not only did Ken's perch break but another was found at Chickasha that had been broken in exactly the same place as Ken's and it was then welded back. It was not on a car. There was also a complete front axle at Chickasha with Ken Meek's front perch/shock absorb er setup on it. I bought it. I wanted to keep it off the market. later the seller came over and offered me half my money back since he was not aware of why I was buying it which mainly was to keep it off the road. I will NOT sell it. What we forget is that there were many small entrepreneurs making things for T's that solved real and imaginary problems and those folks didn't know the metallurgy like Ford. They used cast iron and other metals in places where Ford used forgings and Ford used Vanadium steel where others used whatever the foundry had. Everyone wanted in on the "action" of T parts aftermarket sales. Jacobson and Brandow were in fact in the dentistry profession in some way and began making coils and boxes in their garage to sell to Ford or at least that is the story often told. Just because some aftermarket item says it is for a Model T Ford and even if it fits OK that does not mean it is safe nor has the experience behind it that Ford had. If you find a rare accessory item, remember to ask yourself why it is rare. Could be because it didn't work so hot. Ruxstalls are not rare because they worked OK so others bought them. Same with Hasslers. Beware of anything non Ford but for sure beware if it is part of the steering or drive line that affects the braking or suspension. Your eyes won't tell you much without knowing what the object is made from and its strength. Be careful. Many of you knew Ken better than I did but he carried my parts and was a dealer of mine. His passing really caused me to take notice of things and in a different light. R.I.P. Ken.


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