A friend restored a 26 four door sedan and wants to register it. The car was very original and had never been restored before. We looked on both the right and left sides of the frame between the cowl and the front seat. Is this where this number should be stamped or did they forget to stamp this frame.
Ford began stamping the number on the frame on about December 7, 1925. Because production of the '26 models began in August, 1925, the '26 models made between these two dates would not have the number stamped on the frame.
So, if you have a '26 without the number on the frame what could you do? You could stamp your engine number on the frame yourself, and consider it a done deal.
Do you have a title for the car? If so, does the number on the title match the engine?
Sometimes it's hard to find the number on the top of the frame. On both of my '26 & '27's, it's on the right side, under where the passengers feet would be. It wasn't hard to find once I cleaned the area with a wire brush.
Don my 1926 roadster does NOT have any stamp on the frame. I even sandblasted the whole thing and no numbers ever were stamped. I left it that way.
Don, my late '26 Oct. had the number covered up by a thick coat of paint, had to sandpaper it down to find and it matched the title, but not the engine.
George n L.A.
Thanks for the input. This may be an early 26 that was built in late 25. We will check that out.
The car was driven to the California Motor Vehicle Dept. along with the book (Model T Ford)the car that changed the world so that the numbers could be verified. The number 14,774,991 was found on the frame between the two running board brackets on the passengers side. The frame had never been cleaned in 86 years since new so had a lot of dust covering the number. That number is March 3,1927. The engine number is 13,089,759 Jan 22,1926. So I suppose the engine was changed at some time. They checked to see if the number was clear. It was not, the number is also on a 1924 TT Truck in a museum so since they know the number on the car is original DMV is having the truck brought in to check it and change the number on it. DMV also stamped the number 14,774,991 on a tag and pop riveted it to the door jam on the 27 four door sedan.
Don Long Beach, CA.
Likely the changed out original engine from the '27 Fordor was repaired later on and put in the TT truck.. maximum bad luck for the TT owner!
I suppose the Fordor has wire wheels? Closed cars were factory equipped with wires by that time.
My wifes May 26 Tudor number is stamped on the steel cross rail right under the front of the drivers seat....big number stamps.
HP2424 from memory.
David, That may be a body number from the Highland Park plant? The frame (and the original engine) should have a # between 13619706 and 13769814 on a may '26 T.
Sounds like somewhere along the line the truck ended up with you original engine block in it?
Things are going to be interesting for whoever owns the TT. A 24 TT didn't have a frame number. He's going to end up with a (California generated) ID number and a whole lot of 'paperwork' to fill out.
Roger, a frame number 14,774,991 would probably be May 27. Model T production ended on May 26 1927 with engine/frame number 15007033.
There would have been only 232,042 complete Model T built after this car was.
Dennis, In Bruce McCalley's book (Model T Ford) frame number 14,774,991 was March 3,1927.
Roger, Yes the car does have wire wheels. Was the frame number and the engine number the same at that time. If so maybe my friend should see if they could trade engines so his car would be all original again.
Yes, the engine number was stamped in the frame when installed at the assembly plant, so it would be great if a deal could be arranged to everybody's satisfaction
..Unfortunately matching numbers doesn't add much to the value of a T - it's not like 60's muscle cars..
You are right, the matching numbers would'nt add much to the value of the car but it would mean a lot to me if it were my car.
"You are right, the matching numbers wouldn't add much to the value of the car but it would mean a lot to me if it were my car."
It does to me. My (Feb. 6th 1927) Tudor is a 'numbers matching' car. On top of that it's 'a survivor' too.
It's been repaired and repainted over the years but it's never been 'restored'. It's just an 86 year old 'used Ford'.
Dennis, Nice car. Repaired and repainted so that it looks and runs like new.
Pictures are deceiving Don. That paint job is enamel, probably done in the 1950's. It's got a lot of small dents, scratches, and rust holes in the running boars aprons. The tires are 'brand new' (60+ year old), Wards Riversides. The upholstery was probably replaced when the paint was done, it's faded, fragile and torn. The only thing 'cosmetic' I've done to this car since I bought it in 2007 is to replace what was left of the top, paint the the bumpers and radiator shroud, rub it out with polishing compound, wax it and install the genuine Harley Davidson side view mirrors. It had been in storage for over 16 years when I got it but it still ran. The 'numbers matching' engine is sitting on a pallet in my garage. The engine in the car is a professionally built, very modified, 26 engine. The front end is still worn out, the rear end is still worn out, you can see day light through the spring shackles, it still needs a lot of help.
This is 'a driver', the Mrs. and I treat it just like the family 'grocery getter' but it's not something I would take on tour. I'm seldom more that 5 miles from home. Feb. 6th 1927.
please don't take this the wrong way, but a sure fire way to demolish the value of a car, short of having a horrible accident, is allowing the CHP to "blue tag" it.
Bernard, in his case the 'blue tag' matches the car's original serial number on the frame.
If it was a 'specially constructed vehicle' blue tag, with a DMV/CHP generated number, I would agree with you completely.
Bernard, I did'nt like that the CHP put a "blue tag" on this car either since the number is on the frame. Sometimes it's easier than fighting them and spending more time running to DMV. I don't know how much time you have spent with California DMV and CHP doing these things but it can can drive a person crazy getting things done the way you would like it to be. Don't ask me how I know.
Don, like I said above the blue tag (with the frame number on it, rather than a DMV generated number), is little more than a confirmation that the DMV did their 'homework' and the frame number is genuine.
I too am a California DMV wars veteran.
The Florida DMV isn't much better. The title of my 1927 T said 1928 on it when I got it. As we both know, there is no such thing as a 1928 Model T, it was an obvious 'typo', at least to me anyway. I'm not going to go into all the 'hoops' (and visits) they put me through except to say that once it finally came out that this car was a 1927 when it left Georgia and it became a 1928 once it was registered in Florida AND it was once owned by the supervisor (at that time) of the Sarasota County (Fla.) branch of the DMV, 'they' mad an appointment with 'me' to straighten things out, (in other words to cover their you know what).
Dennis, I have found that DMV will work with you if you have the time and patience(many visits).They do not know much, if anything about old cars. Eventually you can find someone that will listen and learn from us to solve a problem. Just takes a lot of time. You know the routine.
I'm into old cars since I can drive. I have had my share of DMV experiences, more than my share. I have bought blue tagged vehicles, ripped off the tag, destroyed the title, and started over by stamping the real VIN into the frame or stamping a VIN plate and riveting it to the firewall and then got a new identity and new title for the car. Works on Model T's as well . . .
Above photo blurred for obvious reasons.