I just might have a problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: I just might have a problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:05 pm:

found this under the transmission inspection plate, don't know if it dropped in or something is loose,.
runs fine no noise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:08 pm:

Looks like a flywheel cap screw. I'd pull engine and drop pan to check it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:10 pm:

Looks like one of the magneto coil mounting bolts.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:18 pm:

I thought it was bad news :-(
starting to take it apart this week


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

You can see whether it is from the flywheel by pulling the inspection plate from under the engine and looking toward the very back. put it in neutral and rotate the engine one turn. There are 4 bolts like that which hold the flywheel to the crankshaft. They should be wired in with safety wire. Two are wired together so there would be two safety wires. This safety wire should be placed in such a way that it doesn't hit anything as the engine turns around. If it is one of those 4 bolts, sometimes with difficulty they can be replaced without pulling the engine. You should replace the bolt, because the threads are damaged. You don't want to damage the threads in the flywheel. It is very easy to drop one in when you are working on it. Someone in the past could have dropped it in and if you have a strainer under the transmission plate, the flywheel could have thrown it up. There are other similar bolts which hold the magneto coil plate to the back of the block. If it is one of those, you would need to pull the engine to fix it. If you do find where it came from and can replace it, it would still be a good idea to pull the hogs head and inspect the flywheel and magneto to see if anything else was damaged by that loose bolt. Sometimes the magnets can break loose and damage other parts of the engine or transmission.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 10:08 pm:

A; looks too small the flywheel bolt
B; flywheel bolt does not have threads all the way to the bottom
C; could be mag coil ring bolt
D; someone dropped it in and didn't get it out till you found it.

You could also pull the starter if you have one and have someone turn the motor slowly while you look at the magnets to see if any are out of wack. Even with the coil ring in the way you should still be able to see enough of the magnets to tell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 10:14 pm:

Shawn, it looks more like one of the six bolts which hold the clutch driven plate to the brake drum to me. Unless you have really fat fingers, it appears too small for a flywheel cap screw. Most of the motors I have stripped have longer threads on the magneto coil plate bolts because that plate is a thick casting.

If it is the bolt I suggested, you should be able to see if it is missing by rotating the trans with the cover off. It should also be replaceable at the same time. Just remember to safety wire it.

Whatever it is, Norman's suggestion to replace it when you find its source is the way to go.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 10:16 pm:

Possibly a clutch plate bolt? If so, it should not be hard to replace it thru the trans. cover opening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Bullock, York WA, Australia on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 10:33 pm:

My money is on Allan Bennett's theory!!!
cheers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 10:40 pm:

Hopefully that it is a driven plate bolt. What year is the car?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 02:53 am:

It looks like a wonderful thing to me. Provided you found it in an otherwise intact engine. Often these are found (or not found, just found out about) after they have punched a hole out through the pan, huge chunks out of your hogshead, or blown the magneto into a dozen pieces of spinning mass ripping everything apart.
I am sure that there are more Ts running around with such things than anyone wants to believe. But since you found it, I would recommend checking all of the above to make sure all safety wires and bolts are in place are in place. It is amazing how long something can stick to the magnets spinning around as they do. But if there is something, as the magnets get weaker, eventually they will reach the point where they will drop something off.
Since I did once find something stuck onto the magnets on a car I had been driving (lucky), I do make it a habit to rotate the engine and look any time it is convenient (like changing bands etc).
Remember Murphy's Law. A bolt dropped from a work bench will find its way into an open cover six feet away and two feet off the ground. If all your bolts are accounted for, there are other ways such things can get in there. But I would look closely anyway. And I would consider pulling the engine for real peace of mind. Especially if I had other reasons to freshen it up.

Shawn H,
Are you doing anything with the original family speedster yet?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 08:02 am:

That is one of the four bolts that attaches the magneto coil ring to the block. One of them also attaches the oil funnel. You should pull the hogshead to see what's going on. Chances are someone forgot to safety wire those bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 09:28 am:

Hi Wayne
Yes I have the speedster in progress, :-)
I am about to install the engine, then rewood the floor and drop on the body, the chassis and wheels are done,
this car is the US made 23 roadster, we where just going over it so dad could drive it next weekend ,
I will post some pictures this week
and thanks to everyone ,
PS I bought a "snake" camera to look inside as well , I hope I can see in there with it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 10:51 am:

I would not start the engine until you can verify that all four magneto coil ring bolts are in place and the one you found was a spare. A loose mag ring or oil funnel is a grenade waiting to destroy everything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 09:30 pm:

Royce, that bolt may be the length used to secure the pressed steel coil plate on the early motor you show.
However, on later engines with the cast coil plate I believe it is simply not long enough. In comparing the width of the bolt head to the diameter of the thread and the length of that thread, I find that such a bolt when put through a cast coil plate leaves just 5-6 threads of engagement, without any shims in place.
Shawn would be able to check the clutch driven plate bolts through the top cover with ease. If one is missing his problem is solved, very easily.

If all six are still there, I would still be of the opinion that the bolt in question is an extra, accidently introduced, unless of course he is working on an early motor with steel coil plate.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 06:28 pm:

UPDATE>>>>
I found out where it came from



now I also found a carrage bolt in there ,
but after checking the rest of the engine everything else is in place
may need a new mag ring though


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 07:00 pm:


Wayne, the engine is now sitting in the speedster
hope to have it running this weekend , then on to installing the shell, can't decide on whether or not to restore it ? or run it the way it is


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 11:06 pm:

To restore, or not restore, that is a tough question. I remember the photos that you posted before. I would probably restore it. Perhaps now you could take some other photos and give us all a better idea of what you have to work with.
In the end, it is your decision. Do what you think is best, for you, and the car. "It is only original once", is a phrase used often here. The big question is, when is there not enough "original" left to keep it that way. In your case, the car also has a special history. And therefore special considerations.

Glad you solved the mystery of the "extra bolt". Thank you for the update.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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