How to rebuild a model T engine properly?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: How to rebuild a model T engine properly?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rodrigo Nunes Ricardo on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 01:18 pm:

Folks,

my 25' engine must be rebuild. I'am in Brazil and I need tips concerning the best way to do that without troubles or mistakes.

Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 01:45 pm:

Send it to J & M machine Co. in southborough, Ma.

They do a lot of engines outside the U.S.

J& M Machine Company
40 Mt. Vickery Road,
Southborough, MA 01772


USA Phone: (508) 460 0733
Fax: (508) 460 6541
E-mail: sales@JandM-Machine.com
Web: jandm-machine.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 01:57 pm:

It is really dependent on whether you need babbitt work done. With the help of most machine shops someone with moderate mechanical ability can do the rest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 02:09 pm:

Rodrigo,
I also posted this on your overheating thread.

If you had your engine rebuilt and it is now over heating on #3 and #4 there is most likely just one simple issue that is causing your problem. Probably no need to rebuild the whole thing.

Some issues to consider:

It is normal for #3 and #4 to run hotter. See:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/365037.html?1370118547

Does the engine still turn over freely when it is hot? Maybe pistons or rings are too tight and binding when it is hot.

If there is an air leak on the intake for #3 and #4 it will run hotter.

Check the valves to make sure that that are opening correctly.

A restriction on the block or head water flow will make it run hot in the rear of the engine.


Like I said, it is just one simple issue, you just have to find it.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 02:17 pm:

Good Greif! Did ANYBODY read the OP's post?

Rodrigo - Get yourself the Ford T-1 manual and go through it to make sure you understand all the steps and tools necessary to rebuild the engine.

You might also check to see if there is a local or regional Model T club that can assist you in locating services.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 06:22 pm:

I, too, left a message on the other thread, before I saw this one. I agree with Jim T. There is an as yet unanswered question. Other than an uneven, and possibly minor, overheating issue on an otherwise partially redone engine, what else is saying it needs a complete re-rebuild. We are also dealing with a language difference here. I would want to confirm the measurement of 240 degrees "centigrade" on one cylinder. 240 degrees Fahrenheit could be within reason for a tight cylinder with an intake leak or bad distributor cam. 240 degrees centigrade could well mean the block is nowhere near worth being rebuilt. If the block is not pre'14, and has been heated that hot and that unevenly, it could likely not be worth the cost to ship it thousands of miles, let alone the cost of the work, to have anything done to it.
If the cylinder is not tight, and the temperature measurement was correct, I cannot think of many things that would cause the "known" symptoms (he said at least that the block was cleaned out) and not make the block beyond reasonable repair.

If (for example) he found leather belts in the bearings, the engine would need to be properly rebuilt. (It is possible, I have seen it done!) However that cannot cause the severe and uneven over heating. So the question still is, to confirm both previous and new known problems and symptoms.
I would like to see Rodrigo get the best advice possible. And those answers are the only way we can do that. Otherwise it is all speculation.

Rodrigo,
Mi espanol es muy malo. Si ayudaria, puedo intentar traducir.
I hope I got that right. I have to use a translation aid to write almost anything. (I actually read Spanish moderately well.)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 07:18 pm:

If he is in Brazil he speaks Portugese, not Spanish, as a native language. Perhaps he speaks Spanish as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 08:10 pm:

Spain and Portugal were in hot competition during the early days of colonization. To keep the peace, the Pope picked a meridian (45?) and declared that Portugal could claim everything east of it and Spain would get what was west. So Portugal got Brazil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rodrigo Nunes Ricardo on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 10:01 pm:

Folks, It's hard to explain in English, but sparks are getting wet with oil, and engine is producing a lot of smoke too, we cannot crank it (it starts in the foot, but not cranking, even Popeye will not).
Thats 240 centigrade, correct.
We'll check if cylinder is too much tight.
Thank you all.
I do speack Spanish, but as Dave and Steve said, our native language is Portuguese.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 12:33 am:

My error. I had believed Brazil spoke a variation of Spanish. There are many variations.
What year and model Model T is this engine for? If it is a newer model, anything after 1918, you may be better off to buy another block. Over 450 degrees Fahrenheit is close to dangerous territory for a cast iron block if it was not heated evenly.

As minhas desculpas. Since, however, I do not read or speak Portuguese, I may not be much help with translations. But I could try.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rodrigo Nunes Ricardo on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 11:46 am:

Wayne, model As Fords are very common in Brazil, but model Ts are very rare. It's almost impossible to get another block, we'll check our block before any service, I hope its ok without any damage.
It's a '25 engine.
Nao precisa pedir desculpas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 02:11 pm:

Why don' t you pull the engine and check the crank and Babbitt? You may be able to do it yourself if the Babbitt in the block is good and the crankshaft is not cracked. If needed a local shop should be able to grind the rod journals and re-bore the block for new pistons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 05:52 pm:

Rodrigo -- while you have the engine apart checking things, use a micrometer to check the crankshaft journals to determine whether they are round. If the crankshaft journals are not round, they will wear out the babbit quickly. If they measure a thousandth of an inch (.001") or more out of round, they will need to be turned round again. Turning the crankshaft round will require new babbit.

If the main journals are round and the rod journals are not, you can have just the rod journals turned and get rebabbited rods, and leave the main bearings alone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 08:04 pm:

I have rebuilt two engines and managed to salvage the main bearing Babbitt. I had the rod journals ground and bought re-babbitted rods. I paid to have the machine work done. I purchased the replacement parts from Lang's and Snyder's. I replaced what I thought needed replacing and re-used what I thought I could get away with re-using. I'm happy with both of them, but I would not call it 'rebuilding a Model T engine properly.'


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 01:17 am:

Hal D,
I have done several engines that way. I agree, they are not rebuilt. I call them reworked. Several of them turned out to be great tour car engines.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 02:31 pm:

Main bearing journals are not likely to be out of round. At least that's my experience.


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