Old Photo - Plotting The Great Doughnut Heist

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Old Photo - Plotting The Great Doughnut Heist
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 10:47 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:20 pm:

Those would be really old fashion doughnuts today!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:31 pm:

Interesting tail lamp. E&J #7 maybe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Henderson on Friday, June 07, 2013 - 08:39 am:

Whoever, Johnson & Keppler are, they sure aren't the driver/delivery man, probably the money men.

Happy motoring, Warren


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, June 07, 2013 - 09:00 am:

Great News ! Today IS National Doughnut Day !!!

Cruller anyone ??


LOL


Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, June 07, 2013 - 09:08 am:

They never were able to pull off "The Great Doughnut Heist" ...too many cops around. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, June 07, 2013 - 04:33 pm:

I thought they first bribed the cops with doughnuts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, June 08, 2013 - 10:00 am:

Mike,

Bottom Line up Front: Yes, I think the tail lamp might be a E&J #7 or similar style lamp.

Additional details:

I think there is a reasonable chance that the tail lamp is an E&J #7 or similar style lamp. As always a higher resolution photo would be great if anyone has a copy. Second disclaimer – we don’t know how long after the delivery van body was mounted that the photo was taken. For that matter we don’t know when the body was mounted either. And we do not know if the body was mounted on a bare chassis purchased from Ford or if a roadster or touring body was removed and the van body installed. If built on a new car/chassis – purchasing the chassis would have been a more economical way to build the van. But if it was a replacement body – anything could have happened. But “IF” the body was mounted onto an early 1915 chassis – the E&J#7 would have been a possibility to have come with the chassis. If we look at the coil box – it is the 1915 and later style with the slanted top. We can tell that by how low the lid comes down towards the switch where we can clearly see the line where the lid fits on the box. The hood is the 1915-16 style with the six louvers. No we cannot tell if it is aluminum or the later 1916 steel style but it is clearly the 1915-16 style and not the early 1914 style without the louvers. The rear fenders are the 1915-16 curved but without the 1917 and later style crown. The front fenders have the bead across them like the late 1914 – 1916. They may or may not be billed but I think you can just start to see a bill where the photo ends. The 1915 hood former with the fitted dash does NOT appear to be used. I would guess the body was designed for the flat firewall and they either swapped out the firewall or perhaps Ford was still producing the chassis with the flat firewall using up the parts? Ford continued the 1916 style chassis with the brass radiator for a short time into 1917 production (probably to use up parts?) ref page 238 of Bruce’s (R.I.P.) book. So it is possible during that time frame when the 1915 production was starting up and the 1914 model open cars were still being produced that a chassis “may” have been produced with the older style 1914 flat firewall. Anyone have an early 1915 sales brochure etc. they could check and see if shows the chassis one way or the other? [Note the 1915 chassis illustration on page 199 of Bruce’s book and also in his CD has the note from Bruce “The chassis illustration is from a later catalog and shows the horn button on the steering column. ]

So again “IF” it was constructed around the same time – the hood, fenders, coil box are from the 1915-16 era and what appears to be the gas lamps and side lamps would be 1913-1914 black and brass style. That would sound like a late 1914/early 1915 time frame and the E&J #7 style tail lamp would fit into that same time frame. Note there also appears to have been some variations in the early style 1915 tail lamps. I.e. some photos show the large lens and door to the side and others have the large door facing the rear.

Thanks for mentioning the shape of the tail lamp.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 08, 2013 - 11:10 am:

The car is an early 1915 commercial chassis. You can see the bulb horn tube mounted to the steering column. Combined with the other details such as the speedometer, hood, and fenders it can only be a 1915 chassis.

Bare 1915 chassis would have been equipped with a flat firewall and 1913 - 14 style hood former.

As for the lamps the early model year commercial chassis would have used up last year's stock of kerosene lamps and headlamps. I think the cowl and tail lamp may be Victor brand, late 1914 style with the small cheap Victor tail lamp. I doubt Ford would use an E&J tail lamp with cowl lamps that are clearly not E&J.

Kerosene lamps normally came in a boxed set of 3 all the same brand. While I've heard people say that one brand of tail lamp might show up with a different brand of cowl lamp originally I've yet to see any period documentation to substantiate such a claim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 08, 2013 - 01:03 pm:

Here are pictures of the late 1914 Victor tail lamp. Someone painted the top gold before listing it on eBay:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 09, 2013 - 09:20 am:

Here's a 1914 commercial chassis. Notice the horn bulb and tubing. Odd cowl lamps on this one.


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