Anybody know where the "lift the dot" fasteners go on the inside of the irons? The ones that attach the sides of the top to the irons. How far up from the bottom of the iron, how far apart, and how many on each side? I assume 3 on each side because 6 came with the CLASSTIQUE kit I am installing. I ask because my irons don't have any holes on the inside to reference to. I know I could just guess, but I'm thinking there must be a correct measurement. Thanks in advance for any responses. Any pictures of a finished top would be GREAT!
The back curtain of your upholstery kit will determine where the studs for the lift the dot fasteners will be placed. The back curtain should already have part of the fasteners installed.
Thanks, Jack Only 2 on each side? Nothing pre-attached on my back curtain.
From memory: I think there are 3 on each side. I can not go look right now. sorry. Check your upholstery kit. BTW Classtique is THE best.
There are three on each side, and they are not lift the dot! They used Anzo fasteners originally. If you have reproduction sockets, they probably didn't drill the holes for them. I have some original Anzos, and could probably check the threads for you. I just guessing at this point, but I would guess a 6-32 or 8-32.
Would they be threaded in or are the holes in the top irons bigger than 6-32 or 8-32?
Are they similar to the body sockets between the doors on a 26/27 touring? In that case they would be installed with a tool that would expand them after they are placed in the holes to hold them in the top irons.
Larry, I think these fasteners are special, as unlike the ones between the doors on a touring these fasteners need a lip, or protrusion, such that the rear curtain is between the top material and the iron when the side curtains are installed. Without the lip the side curtain grommet (metal) has no were to go. I have been looking for these fasteners for over 3 years without luck.
This is My 26 roadster top. Langs or sniders have then $$.
Here are two pictures of the correct Anzo fastener. I could take a picture of the stud if you wish.
Are the ones pictured used on a 26/27?
Some of the tops seem to have the fastener that attaches to the top material to be a male with two "prongs" that retract when the center button is pushed and have a female fastener on the top iron that has a center that accepts the male fastener with the two prongs attached to the top!
I believe Ford gave some information in some publication on the fasteners for the 26/27. I will search for it and give the information if I find it again. There is also a June 1926 Ford Service Bulletin that addresses the lift the dot curtain fasteners, but I do not believe it is for the improved runabouts. (I think Henry is talking about the earlier runabouts with this fastener!)
Thanks guys, the top is on! Spent yesterday and today putting it on. WOW! Does that ever change the looks. The fasteners that came with the CLASSTIQUE top kit are the long "lift the dot" style, and will hit the body when putting the top down, so I will rely on fellow club members again to come up with the shorter ones. Thanks to Gary and Chris Paulsen, and my sister-in-law Vickie for all their help in getting the upholstery [Vickie], and top [Chris and Gary] done and looking professional compared to how it would have looked if I had done it by myself. Thanks again, STEVE Flatland Model T club, Newton, Kansas
The service bulletin of January, 1926 vol 7, #1 on page 3 states: "These tools will enable the dealers to handle replacement of all fasteners used on the improved car with the exception of T-41123 fastener (female). This is the fastener used in open bodies and bow sockets."
The edited edition of the Model T Ford Service Bulletins by Dan R. Post does not have this information in it! One needs to look at the actual Ford Service Bulletin dated January, 1926 (Vol 7, #1) to see this information.
The June 1926 (Vol7 #6) does indeed state "The T-41129 curtain fasteners which we are now using do not have the word "Pull" stamped on the fasteners" It then goes on to say on runabout rear curtains "A" must be toward rear of car.
Here is a potential problem. What was the meaning of Henry's information in the June 1926 service bulletin? One could think he changed to that fastener (lift the dot) in June of 1926, or one could think the old fastener configuration was changed and was still only used on the older cars?
What do the experts on this forum say?
Also, anyone near the Henry Ford could look at the 15,000,000th Ford touring and report back what fasteners is has for the rear side curtains that attach to the rear bow. I would think the touring and runabout would have similar style fasteners in that area. However, the 15,000,000 was "redone", but it still would prove interesting what is actually now installed there. If the pushbutton fastener was installed in the top material, then perhaps the idea that lift the dot fasteners were used in later production would be put to rest!
I have done some research on this and thus, my interest. What I have seen on what appear to be original improved open cars is the pushbutton fastener in the top material and a female receptacle in the rear top bows in the vertical positions of the most reward fasteners of the rear side curtains which are just grommets in the side curtain itself. (The triangular ones). However that is only my opinion and would like others to comment!
Please keep in mind that you need some space for the side curtains to be sandwiched between the top and the rear bow. If the studs are to short you may not be able to get the side curtains sandwiched between the top material and rear bows!
Sorry, should have said rear bow (only one rear bow!)
For the '26-'27 these cars used the button release type fasteners. But these aren't found new today, got my set in 2000 from Carter's Cut and Cover, but they don't make tops anymore.
The ANZO were used on the pre-'26
As for Lift-the-Dots, these styles were used in the early 20's on other cars, but perhaps only on the later Improved Fords? Don't know the answer for sure.
But on my '26 top irons, the three holes are large round holes, not tapped, and the spring loaded female fastener for the 'prong style' male curtain/top cover fastener went right in the hole and secured properly by friction press fit.
Original "Larry" is usually quite accurate! I certainly respect his judgement.
I posted this message to make sure that possible incorrect information (at least in my novice opinion!) did not become gospel!
Thanks for posting your pictures Dan. If Dan posted another picture of the female fastener (that is pressed in the rear top iron) at a different angle one could see the "lip" and the part that goes into the top iron! The problem with current reproduction ones I have seen, is that they do not have that protrusion/lip that is used to hold (sandwich) the grommet that is in the rear side curtain.
If anyone knows of someone currently providing the fastener with the lip/protrusion please let us know. I have been searching for over 3 years for 12 of them so another gentlemen and I could have the ability to put the side curtains on properly with the top still fastened to the rear bow. One person just took out the grommets in the side curtains to make them "thinner" to try to sandwich the rear curtain between the top and top bow using the incorrect fasteners without the lip!
That Anzo stud that Dan posted is what I'm talking about, and gives enough room for the side curtain too. I'm not aware that Ford stopped using Anzos in '26, but since I don't own one any more, I don't have any information to share. There are enough '26 owners out there that should be able to help.