The first Fords in production

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: The first Fords in production
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 03:46 pm:

I know this question has been answered here many times but I just forgot to write it down. Help, please: Beginning with the Model A in 1903 what other alphabet Fords were there, and by the year they were made? Seems I recall there were 8 or 9 but, as I said, my memory is lacking today. Thanks. This time I'll write it down and keep it handy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Saitta on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:08 pm:

A, B, C, F, K, N, R, S and T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:12 pm:

John,

The Model A was followed by the 10 hp Model C in 1904 (although some call the 10 hp Model A an "AC"). The Model B was produced in late 1904 through 1905. A few references are made to a Model E delivery car, but it was a delivery body on a C chassis and listed as such in most ads and publications.

The Model F was essentially a "larger" Model C, with a 12 hp 2 cylinder, 1905-1906.

Models K and N were both introduced in early 1906, although the K was not delivered until April 1906, and Model N deliveries began in July 1906.

The Model R was produced in 1907 along with the N and K. The Model S Roadster and Runabout replaced the Model R for 1908, while the Model K Roadster was added in the spring of 1907.

The Model T appeared in October 1908.

These are done quickly, and I reserve the right to be wrong.....

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:13 pm:

I never thought about it this way, but that's 9 models in just 5 years. The technology was changing pretty fast....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:24 pm:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:29 pm:

Thanks. That's exactly what I was lookin' for. I appreciate the replies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:32 pm:

Henry,

Yes, lots of models and changes in a short time. In addition to production models, Ford showed at least one air cooled four cylinder car and one enclosed coupe at the 1904 Detroit Auto show. Henry Ford was seen driving a six cylinder Model N type car in the summer of 1908 in Detroit (this car still exists in Australia today).

Then consider that Henry Ford was racing cars into 1905, and attending races (with Fords) through 1907, and he was a busy fellow.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:36 pm:

To carry John's question one step further, what happened to the letters in between A,B,C,F,K,N,R,S & T ??? I would assume that there were a few letters that were never used, and also a few letters that were used, but on models that never made it to production,.........is that correct?

I've actually been asked about that, and of course felt pretty dumb because I had (and still have) NO idea!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:40 pm:

To carry John's question one step further, what happened to the letters in between A,B,C,F,K,N,R,S & T ??? I would assume that there were a few letters that were never used, and also a few letters that were used, but on models that never made it to production,.........is that correct?

I've actually been asked about that, and of course felt pretty dumb because I had (and still have) NO idea!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 04:41 pm:

Oops,....did it again,......sorry,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 05:40 pm:

As I understand it, the missing letters were models that either never made it off the drawing board and/or never made it into production. I have always assumed (absent evidence to the contrary) that all letters from A to T were used in planning, just not all made it to production (or even a prototype) before being superseded by the next.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 05:44 pm:

Harold,

There was an ad in the New York paper for a Model H in 1905. It looked similar to the Model B (touring car) and was a front engine car, but claimed a less horsepower engine, more like the eventual N.

Ford board minutes also had expenses for experimental letters G and H. As mentioned above, there were two other cars shown at the 1904 Detroit Auto show that may have had letter designations (reserved) too, although I've seen nothing about these cars other than one account.

I assume the six cylinder car in an NRS chassis may have had a letter designation too. There may have been reluctance to use some letters too, due to other makers using a letter or something along those lines.

Below are a few examples of "other Fords".

February, 1904



Ad by the Wanamaker Agency in New York, 1905



This article appeared in the summer of 1908, well after production of the Model T is underway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 09:50 pm:

As I understand it, there were letters that were not used to reduce misidentification. Letters such as I and L, O and Q. Some letters were skipped for the same reason such as G (C).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, June 14, 2013 - 11:51 pm:

The Annual Report of the Ford Motor Company presented to the Directors in October 1905 has reference to both Model G and Model H on the Assets page.

Listed under "Items in Suspense" it shows:-

Model G $3094.61
Model H $1172.32


And one more from Andrew Brand, the Model W:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 01:20 am:

Thanks Rob,......for the first time ever, I think I've "got it"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 01:23 am:

Oops,....should have said "thanks Bill & Rob"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 01:41 am:

It is a fair and probably proper guess to say that the missing alphabet has actual meaning and not just 'skip'. There was a thread a while back where we all tossed out bits and scraps about the missing letters. As usual, I'm life skills impaired on using the search function here.

Although not ascertained as being Ford practice, it was quite common in emerging industrial era anthropology to walk through the alphabet, do NOT use 'I' and 'O', and to use a double letter (such as 'TT') for derivatives of the parent. I think whoever came up with this alphabet protocol thought they'd hit stability before running out of letters and it was meant to mean that he who got to stability and mass production at the lowest alphabet won bragging rights as being better engineering companies. They learned later, that customers felt higher letters implied confidence. The only conundrum I can find in the above as logic applying to Ford is that those who embraced the 'alphabet' approach protocol of the era usually used 'X' to mean experimental regardless of order. (Ford seemed to just use it as a character at the end of part numbers until proven)

Ford had an Model 'X', never mentioned in anything commercially but development did begin about '23. It was the radial 8 and while built, they could never keep it running long enough to figure out why it didn't want to run. This stayed secret, totally secret and never admitted by Ford until a PhD student working at BFM uncovered the daily personal journal records of the lab chief. So maybe the use of Model 'X' was a curse...because in all other company of the time the 'X' meant totally off the wall experimental with no real expectations! I personally find it more than highly coincidental that just after 'X' project was declared dead within Ford that the improved car came along and developed quickly at that. I do believe (rather want to believe)the body designs were all but done for the 'X' introduction just waiting for motor trials. Ford himself (was it him?) that said history is bunk! Yet he and his PR man were notorious for 'spin' that became history.

Now those other guys that sometimes tried an 'I' or an 'O'? I think it was the then 'MBA' type trying to break out of the mold and show how daring they were for uniqueness!

Unless someone at BFM stumbles across an ascension box that none have looked at yet completely...Rob took the right approach...read the Board minutes month in month out. Sure the power of the scribe will always prevail...but as a stock company even then, 'material facts' had to at least be mentioned in the minutes to explain what showed up as line items on a balance sheet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 08:44 am:

George,

The board minutes have provided a wealth of information. There was the point in 1905 where Ford decreased the cost to dealers in response to dealer complaints that the two cylinder cars were not selling well. I especially found that interesting as the four cylinder "big car" Model B was not included as a "poor seller", only the two cylinders.

On another instance, A.Y. Malcomson, the other major shareholder historically credited with "forcing" Ford to build the big cars (B and K) made a motion to the board, and could not find a second. This was in late 1904 or early 1905. I found it interesting that he is credited (historically) with having so much influence over Ford policy, yet could not find a second for his motion. In fact, that is the only time this happened (motion with no second) over several years of board meetings.

All good stuff (for an early Ford "geek").

Have a good weekend,

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dunlavy, Iowa USA on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 04:53 pm:

You can see the specs and other details on the Early Ford Register web site.
http://www.EarlyFordRegister.com
Carl Pate wrote the information under the Early Ford Facts tab. You do not have to be a member of the EFR to look at it. There is also a User Forum where you can post questions after you register. We welcome you to use it. There are also thousands of pictures of old pictures and members cars - running and projects.
Dave Dunlavy
Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
The 1903-1909 Early Ford Register, Inc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dunlavy, Iowa USA on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 04:56 pm:

Too much paint fumes
http://www.EarlyFordRegistry.com


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration