Do most of you drive the car onto the trailer or winch it on? If I winch it on where would be a safe connection on the front of the car? I have a new hack and a new tall trailer and I don't want to injure either one. What location on the car would I attach to with my tie down straps.
I know you all have proven techniques and being a newbie I would appreciate some advice. I am just setting up my car and trailer for hauling.
I drive mine in, generally I use the Ruckstell to give more control. I use four straps, two front & two rear. I tie the front ones on the front axle close to the radius rods. The rear as close to the wheels as possible.
Never winch or tie in the middle of the front axle, it will bend...
I would attach to the front spring right next to the shackle. That is the strongest point.
I should clarify that. The above attachment is for a winch. If the car is running and I want to put it on the trailer, I also use Ruckstell and attach tie downs to the front axle next to the radius rod and the rear axle next to the brake drum. I think that is the same way Tony does.
Cecil, If the trailer is a little longer than actually needed, you may have to test drive the loaded car a few times. Sometime the car may be located a little more forward or to the rear for best handling. My trailer sways if I do not get the proper weight on the rear of the tow vehicle.
I have floor tiedowns mounted of the floor. Two toward the rear on each side and two toward the front also on each side. I use the type that are recessed in the floor and you flip up a ring to attatch your tie down strap. These rings on the floor need to be firmly secured in the floor. My floor is steel plate and the rings are bolted to the floor.
On a wood floor, you might need to find the beams under the floor and somehow anchor to them.
I use two large straps on the front and two on the rear.
I put a triangle shaped guide on each side to steer the car in. It saves you from replacing the hub caps from time to time.
I drive mine in and tie it down the same way Tony does. We've painted two stripes on the floor of the trailer where the tires should be as we drive it in. My Wife watches so I drive in straight on these stripes. You want some tongue weight on the front of the trailer. What I do is drive until I feel the trailer tip down in the front. That's where I have just the right amount of tongue weight on the front. We've marked that place on the floor of the trailer so the car can be positioned easily every time.
I've trailered for many years with an open trailer. The tie down mechanics are the same for both types of trailers.
First, you never want to tie to the body, you want the car's springs to let that bounce around as you proceede down the road.
Second, I like to tie down all four corners, when you only do the front you end up with the back moving to one side or the other, maybe against the side of the trailer.
Third, for years I used tie to the front axle between the spindle and the perch... that worked well and is also a good winch point. I used to loop over the rear axle and under the drive shaft then ratchet that down... eventually I broke a torque tube on a good bounce in the road... Don't do that.
Fourth, about five years ago I got some wheel straps. Either on e-bay or at a swap meet, don't remember. These are great... they hook into an E-rail if you have that or to any sort of properly positioned anchors. They have a basket strap which surrounds the wheel and tire. Then it cinches down to the trailer. That holds the car firmly down and still in all directions.
With the wheel tie downs the car is completely fixed in positioned and only the wheels are under stress... they are designed to withstand this type of force. The wheel straps are quick and easy to apply and adjust and are more secure than any other type of attachment. Just look at the commercial towing concerns, they all use these wheel straps for the same reasons.
Willie's comment about positioning the car is important, if the load is too far back on a trailer, you will experience whipping in some conditions, such as when being passed by a large truck. If the trailer starts to whip, there is only one way to stop it, and that is counter-intuitive, you must accelerate to regain control. braking will only make it worse, and if you are going too fast, you will loose control before you can get it slowed down. If you accelerate to regain control, you can safely slow down after the trailer stops whipping. If you are going down a long grade when this happens, you are screwed. It is very important to determine the correct balance on the load before you get it on the road.
The ball on the end of the front wishbone is good for forces toward the back of the car but questionable for forces toward the front(pulling).
When you tie the front axle to the front of the trailer and the rear axle to the rear isn't it possible to pull too hard and pop the ball out of the socket? Or the only thing stopping the car from moving backwards is the straps on the font axle with most of the force going thru the ball or the twist in the spring.
Maybe a strap from the rear axle forward would help.
I like Terry Horlick's wheel straps. They divide the for and aft forces into four locations instead of just two in each direction and let the rear help the front with the aft movement.
I'm getting a little further off topic here, but it covers everything talked about above. The first time I towed my T in an enclosed trailer, it wasn't balanced in the trailer (too far back) and the trailer started to sway in the middle of a very busy southern Calif freeway. I couldn't regain control and the trailer and the tow vehicle did a 180 degree. The FL corner of the trailer hit the LR corner of the tow vehicle hard enough to cause considerable damage to the vehicle and trailer frame.
HOWEVER, I had followed the tie-down instructions above, and there was absolutely no damage to the T strapped down inside. Take from this what you want!
I drive my car in. I have what is probably a unique system of securing the car in the trailer, which is about as absolute as it can get, and takes me only about 3 minutes to secure or release. I will be happy to send you pictures, since I don't know how to post a bunch of them here. Email me your email address at email@example.com if you would like to see my system.
Bob's experience is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post, I have never had it happen to me, but was following a friend when it happened to him, he was able to recover by speeding up to stabilize the trailer, then carefully slowing down, but you have to have room to maneuver. Correctly balancing the load is more important than correctly securing the car.
Fred, you are correct, when you tie to the front axle or even use wheel straps on the front, all the forward and back load is transferred directly to the wishbone ball socket and engine pan. With no brakes on the front axle, the Model T was never designed for loads in that direction as modern cars are. I have head of folks popping out the wishbone ball when they over stressed the tie downs and I bet that engine pans have been deformed.
I like to tie to the front frame cross member if I have access or to the front springs as close to the frame as possible. Just leave a little slack so the car can bounce a little and you're good to go. Another option would be to tie the rear axle to prevent forward and backward moment as it was designed to take that load. Then just use vertical cross ties or wheel straps on the front.
My two cents on position in the trailer. When I first load the car, I put it where I think it should be. I have the trailer hooked to the tow vehicle. I then have a friend prepare to roll the car forward and back by hand. I stand outside at the side of the trailer and watch for the weight shift slightly to the front as my friend rolls the car a little at a time. When I see the shift, I lock the car down and test drive. Most of the time with a new car it is pretty close to perfect. I also have a hack and you will probably realize that the hack is back heavy compared to a touring.
I always drive in the trailer. I don't own a winch. Can't see any reason for a winch unless maybe if you are transporting a non - running car.
A bunch of us were admiring Model T's at the Centennial in Richmond, Indiana in 2008 and watched as a gorgeous 1914 touring drove by. It was really nice! Not so much after he drove into his enclosed trailer with the top up and the trailer about 12" too short for the raised top though.
I do this every day ....
Last Thursday I loaded a 31' Model A Blind Back
in CA bound for MA which I will drop off
on the 22nd.
I use a remote control wireless electric winch
for loading and unloading.
I use a Harbor Freight 9000 pound electric
winch because of the speed - just right.
Whether a car runs or rolls - I line it up
straight and away I go .....
I take an hour on average to load and unload.
Probably a good 15 minutes of that is talking.
You have read my above posts. Here are a couple of other things I do. On long trips, when I am going to have the T on the trailer all day, I use 8 straps. I use the 4 as I posted above, but then I have two additional rings on the trailer. They are in the middle. I run another set of straps back from the front axle and forward from the rear axle to the center ring on each side. That will balance the pull on the axle forward and backward.
The other thing is that I have brakes on the trailer. They are connected to the brake on the truck, and are adjusted so that they pull hard when applied, but not quite enough to slide the trailer wheels. I can then push as hard on the truck brakes as necessary, but the trailer has brakes so it will not push the truck.
I haven't tried this, but it could stop the swaying? You would have to try it to see if it works. Rather than speeding up the truck, try applying only the trailer brakes and let the trailer slow down the truck. The swaying happens because the trailer is trying to push the truck and it goes from side to side just as you do when you try to back up the trailer. I have not had that problem with mine, because I have found the position where it is well balanced. I have put a 2x4 on the floor of the trailer so that when I load the T, I stop when the front wheels hit the 2x4.
I generally drive my car on the trailer... or if its not running.. i wench it. both methods are fine and you will be very thankful to have the wench if you need it. Id put it in regardless of how you plan to enter or exit your trailer. Or perhaps you have a good T buddy with a car that is causing problems and you need to take it to a T mechanic. Having the wench is a must enjoy your new trailer!
I have a "wench" and she stands there to complain if I dont drive it on straight!!!!
I had a brake controller mounted under the dash that controlled the brakes on the duel axle enclosed trailer. The trailer company had adjusted the trailer brakes so they would apply just a little harder than the truck brakes when I pushed on the brake pedal. When the trailer started to sway, I reached down to move the controller lever to actuate the trailer brakes as they told me to to straighten it out. But either I didn't do it right, or I was already too far out of control to straighten out the trailer because it didn't work, and I ended up jackknifing. I think it was probably more the fault of how I had the car loaded in the trailer.
That's why I don't have a trailer to get my car to club tour events!
I winch my car in backwards. I determined that backwards is where I got the best weight and balance. I got the weight and balance by taking the car and trailer to a scale. I weighed the car and trailer to get total weight. Hooked the trailer to the truck, and weighed again and moved the car on the trailer until 10% of the weight of the car/trailer was on the truck,(truck was parked off the scale). Then I bolted a couple of those brackets they use for motorcycles where the rear tires of the Model T were located in the trailer. I have two ramps on my enclosed trailer instead of one big drop down door, so hitting those ramps is a little tricky to back on the trailer. Winching it on with a remote control is very easy and safe. I can watch all the wheels and see exactly where things are going. The motorcycle brackets put my car exactly in the same spot everytime. I use 4 straps, two in front, and two in back. the motorcycle brackets prevent side shift in the back, and then I use two lighter straps crossed in front to prevent side shift in front.
I have seen hundreds of cars loaded on trailers, strapped all kinds of ways. I also have heard of pulling the ball out of the socket, but have never found anyone who actually said it happened to them. It might be one of those Model T. Myths that fit into the same category as Big Foot or Sasquatch, nobody has one, but we all believe it could be true. Have Fun Today!!
Pulling the ball out of the socket is something I have experience with, not on a trailer, but a jeep with a tow bar. I went through a rather radical dip pulling out of a shopping center in southern Nevada, there was enough twist to the socket on the ball that it popped off. I was going rather slow at the time and was able to stop with no damage to the Ford jeep.
It would be a big problem if the trailer started to sway and you were in traffic and couldn't speed up the truck. I guess it's a good idea to stick with the speed limit in California 55 MPH when pulling a trailer. That way there is almost never anyone directly in front unless you are almost stopped. Most whiz around me at 65 , 70 or faster!
Thank you to everyone who responded to my questions. Today I painted the stripes on the floor so that my "wench" can guide me in. I like that part Tony. The hack extends 3' from the back of the chassis so I will have to wait until the body is on the chassis to do the weight balancing. I think this is very important. I also believe it is important that with the super straps that I have I do not want to over tighten them .
Nobody said anything about load levers and an anti-sway bar. On a closed trailer on a windy day or meeting a lot of 18 wheeler, You would be surprised on how much they help. My 3/4 ton pick-up is plenty big to pull my trailer without these devices, but they really help.
Also the trailer brakes can prevent running into something.
Each item helps a little.
Cecil, good to see you posting again. I have been wondering how you have been doing. Dave
I have a '09 Ford F150 and pull a 20 ft. V nosed extra high 8.5 wide trailer with load leveler hitch with sway bar. I drive the T in just ahead of center of the axles, tie it down with 4 straps to anchors in the floor. It takes 5 minutes to load and never had a problem.