Smoke from floor

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Smoke from floor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 11:35 pm:

I was coming back from a show tonight and low was starting to go on me more and more. It finally was hardly catching and a lot of smoke came out of the peddle holes in the floorboard. Did not smoke once in high. I've never had this happen in any of our cars. Has anyone had this happen? This was on my fronty powered speedster after a lot of stop and go driving. Really hoping that in is just time for new bands.

What do you guys with ohv heads run for band material?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 12:20 am:

Wood is still the band liner of choice here.



I don't worry about drag from too much pedal, and I don't even use return springs on low and R bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:12 am:

Could be smoke from hot oil coming out of the interior of the engine through the hole in the valve cover. When under way (in high gear), the smoke is carried out from under the car by the forward movement of the car, but when going slow in low gear, or when stopped, the vented smoke can come up through the floorboards. Not an uncommon occurence for the Model T whether the bands are worn or not. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:48 am:

Don't let the bands slip. They will last much longer that way, drums too. When starting out, push down hard to engage low and then open the throttle to accelerate. If low starts to slip, take a few minutes to adjust it with the tools you carry or use it as little as possible until you get home.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:56 am:

what is all that stuff where the water hose should be?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Saitta on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 10:52 am:

I had smoke- and flames come up thru the floor mat on my wife's side. Floor board fell down on the muffler. Carry a fire extinguisher!! Put the fire out and drove on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 10:59 am:

Which clutch disk do you have?
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/367456.html?1371012517


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:33 am:

Michael -- Ralf has a belt driven supercharger on that T.

The only problem is that it takes most of the motor's power to spin the supercharger thus the benefit is non-existent.

He would have added a water pump but he would have needed another motor to run it.

As it is - if he blows the horn too much the forward flow of air make the T back up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:36 am:

Ned -- from your description I would bet on the slipping band comments and suspect that the smoke was coming out of the oil filler hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 01:07 pm:

The 180 thermostat you don't see assures that the water in the radiator and the surrounding air don't have to be heated before the engine is up to clean operating temperature. The water in the rad stays cool. I never see any red in the motometer.

The curve in the hose in the lower pic clears the modren (1937) Ford steering gear, one of the better safety items for a T.

"The modifications on MY car make it safer, more reliable and improve itís appearance. The modifications on YOUR car are unnecessary, troublesome, gaudy and ruin the whole character of the Model T!"

"If your Model T doesn't have era correct finish/paint, you would be a hypocrite to criticize the modifications on mine."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 04:37 pm:

I don't know what clutch is in this one.

Fred - I'm on the same thought as you as this has a Fronty head and the carb is on the left side (right in front of the pedal holes) and it has an air heater/filter contraption that pulls air out of the oil filler hole.

Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to dig into this and I'll let you guys know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:59 pm:

With that aftermarket head a water pump might be necessary to prevent steam pockets or something. Is it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 10:49 pm:

Well I finally got around to changing the bands tonight. The low band was the only band that was bad and I noticed that they were Kevlar so I looked to make sure the drum wasn't rough. Well it was only rough in one spot, a crack all the way across the drum..... Well at least I will be able to install the new bands easier with the engine out....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 11:57 pm:

Ned, sorry to hear you have joined the broken drum club. You have lots of company, I'm a four time member.

You will hear lots of wailing about the following comment, it is my opinion. The smoke was from the oil heated up by the intense friction you had from slipping your Kevlar bands. The Kevlar, low drum, and oil all got hotter and hotter as you drove your slipping band around town. Eventually you got the drum hot enough to crack. The crack didn't ruin your Kevlar band nor did it cause the heat. The slipping allowed the Kevlar to heat everything up until something failed.

Kevlar can be wonderful as long as you have meticulously installed it and meticulously driven it. If it drags or is allowed to slip due to installation problems, band wear or problematic driving practices you will get into trouble. Kevlar does not allow you to get along with anything not going perfectly.

When you are rebuilding your transmission it is a good time to check all your engine bearings and the clutch. It is a great time to do the wooden band switch.

While the wooden bands will not outlast Kevlar which is done perfectly it will fail before any damage happens to the engine or transmission if something is done wrong.

Check out your drum when it is out, I bet you will see some bluing of the metal due to the heat... doesn't always happen but frequently this is seen. You will probably smell burnt oil also... another thing that other linings (cotton and wood) usually can't produce. It is impossible to run a wooden band up to that temperature, it will fail first and thus protect your transmission.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, June 28, 2013 - 12:47 am:

Ned P,
I was afraid of that, from your top post. I have mixed feelings about Kevlar linings. They can be nice, not to have to change them almost ever. On the other hand, they are not forgiving, almost not at all. I often run cotton, and get usually a few thousand miles out of them. I have run Kevlar, but use them as if they were cotton.
Sorry to hear about the drum. But thank you for the update.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Friday, June 28, 2013 - 10:25 am:

Well, I guess I'm hoping that the drum was broke before I had gotten it. I have driven this car very little since getting it. It seemed like the low would get loose quickly so I'm guessing that this crack would just eat away at the band. The low band was all chewed up but the other two look good. I think wood bands will be the way go go on this car as it does turn a lot faster and I'd rather have the bands wear than the drums or heaven forbid, crack a drum....that would be bad...

Oh well things happen. I was looking for a reason to open this engine up and see what all has been done to it, just wish it would have happened in the fall. I guess I'll have motivation to change the drum quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Friday, June 28, 2013 - 11:44 am:

Bummer- but keep us updated on what you choose to run with: wood or cotton and how well it works in the future.


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