Went to Greenfield village this week and took a few rides in the Model T's that they have there. I've never seen or heard a T that ran so smooth or quiet. I would like to know what was done to these things to make them run like that. They go from 9:30am to 5pm 7 days a week and they run amazingly smooth and super quite. But they still leak oil, look at the road and it is easy to see they route they take everyday.
Does anyone know who did the work on these engines?
I believe Jack Putnam built them.
Your right Mike
These "1914" have new cast blocks and heads. The transmissions are all newly made parts. Six of these (I believe six) were built about 10 years ago for the 100 years celebration of the Ford Company. There have been posts before about these Fords. The Museum has four and the Ford Company two. The bodies are from Sweden. They had new pans, but those were not satisfactory, so they now have original pans. The lights are rebuilt originals. Most of the components of these Ts are of new manufacture.
This may or may not have anything to do with it, but...
E-Timer in Daily Service at the Henry Ford Museum
Antique Vehicle Specialist, Ken Kennedy, from The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan, learned about the E-Timer at Hershey 2010 swap meet. Ken was intrigued by the E-Timer because it installs without any modification to the car or wiring; it closely mimics original coil operation, and most importantly, requires no maintenance. Ken welcomed the opportunity to become an E-Timer Beta Tester to establish reliability. Here is what he had to say about it:
“The E-Timer retains the appearance and function of the original ignition system but eliminates the mechanical wear and periodic maintenance of the coil points and timer contacts. This is a significant cost factor for the museum considering our cars operate 7 days a week for 9 months of the year putting on between 7,000 to 10,000 miles. The E-Timer has been in daily use at the Model T District in Greenfield Village since April 2010 providing dependable operation driving the equivalent of 16,000 miles. Acceleration and shifting are very smooth especially at the slow driving speeds our cars are typically driven.”
The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan, 9/2011, updated 1/26/13
So Ken believes that the e-timer is an unobtrusive accessory that offers advantages over original timer designs and delivers smoother operation and less maintenance (his words, not mine). It's my guess that you just experienced some of that first hand.
Of course, true fans of the Model T know that e-timers should not even be considered, unlike the uninformed hacks that went through the trouble of having six NEW Model T's built for the museum.
Have fun and keep cranking!
Here's a pic of one of the brand new 1914's built for the Ford Centenary, from about 2005
Sorry for the small image.
Heres a better one
Thanks for the pics Rob.
Interesting that they went with natural finish of the wheels, at least on this car. Personally, I prefer natural woodies over black....
$ 5-00 a ride.... well it was in 2008 when we were on our way to the Centenary.
The line was long and seemed to stay that way for the time we were there.
They were built for the 2003 centenary of Ford. The reason they run so smoothly is that they have a New Zealand-made crankshaft!
I think it is an absolute tragedy that the Henry Ford Museum would let any sort of printed circuit board or IC component be part of the replica Model T operation. What's next, installing electric motors? I am very disappointed in that decision, it is reprehensible.
Yes, Sture Lundin built bodies. Wish I had brought a camera when I visited his shop two years ago.
I guess you consider that the transmission also incorporates a modern design of triple gear,clutch hub and an other than original design crankshaft a reprehensible decision? Might as well can the whole project according to your view! These cars are a magnificent promotion for the Model T and expose thousands of Tourists to the joy of riding in a Model T. I am in awe of those that were involved in the original project and think the guys at the Henry Ford do a great job driving and maintaining those cars. Wish I could score that job! Royce, in the future please refrain from weaving your hate for the E timer into whatever thread you can at whatever opportunity.
Yes Royce, we know. And I think that the answer to "what's next?" is nothing. Nothing is next. If you didn't read about it here, there is no way that you could have ever observed that an E-timer was being used without disassembly, even if you were driving the car.
In fact, the OP was merely commenting on how smooth the car ran, implying that they were smoother than other T's that he has experience with.
So it's not about how they work (apparently quite well), it's not about the cost (cost was no object with these reproductions) nor was it about appearance (even you can't tell by looking). The argument comes down to dogma (an authoritative principle, belief, or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true). By your statement, you find the management of the museum to be deserving of rebuke or censure and meriting condemnation or blame especially as wrong or harmful. Really? In what way does any of this harm or wrong you personally?
I was trying to find a word to describe how I perceive your position, the best definition that I could find in Webster's was "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group with intolerance". You may not care what other people think of you, but we do form our own opinions. You may want to consider the legacy that you are building here, this is a group of people that share your interests. If the members of this forum don't measure up, then who can? I personally admire your candor and conviction, even if we disagree. But this is a public setting, and we all should act accordingly.
I'm more upset by varnished wheels on the cars than I am by a product which makes them operate reliably. They should at least LOOK authentic.
I know many of you guys have varnished wheels on your T's and that's your prerogative. But if Ford is presenting these cars as replicas of real 14's, they should look the part.
Well, after looking again at the first picture in this thread, I see that the car now has black wheels as it should have. Sorry for the rant.
They had 13 or 14 cars running all day, some had black wheels others were varnished. Personally I prefer the varnished look. Regardless of how correct they are the T's are beautiful and like Warwick mentioned above these are great at promoting the T to I assume millions of visitors every year. If it needs a e-timer or a waterpump to make it endure the punishment they go through so be it I am sure the 15,000,000 car on display is original and correct.
My '26 is bone stock and it will stay that way. Hope to seal the deal on a '20 Pick up in the morning. The car is 12v, waterpump and has a Bosch distributor and it will probably stay as some say "molested"
With 15,000,000+ who cares and to each his own.
I don't see any reason you need to attack me for having an opinion.
Perhaps it is because every time you see the word E-timer, you have to give your negative opinion of it. I haven't seen you producing any parts for the Model T.
Mike Kosser expended a lot of time and effort into making a product that for some people is an improvement to their cars. What better endorsement can you have than the folks at Greenfield Village.
At least he didn't paint his car a puky orange-pink color that is definitely non-Ford.
Eric & Warwick:
He just can't help himself.... he's on a mission
Dave, Eric & Warwick:
This news comes as a shock to him because he never looked at the E-Timer webpage before he stated his postings ???
I've heard that the 2008-vintage engines & transmissions in the T-100s were something very special and always ran smoother than any of the original powerplants, and I suppose the E-timer can only improve on that, but this time I think I'm with Royce. As Ford went to all that trouble to create six genuine, Ford-built, 1914 Model T cars from brand new metal and brand new everything else, all to original specs, it sort of seems self-defeating to "cheat" with modern technology. Considering Ford's unlimited manpower and talent, maintenance shouldn't be an issue, so if anyone ought to be doing things the old-fashioned way, it's them.
Now, don't get me wrong; I think the E-timer is a great invention and a wonderful option for owners to have, but when it comes to the unique T-100 cars, I think maybe they should remain early 20th Century technology.
There not all new metal. A lot of the parts came from Lang's. The engine block and transmission parts are among those I remember being new. True, Ford has unlimited manpower talent, but maybe not in line with Model T technology ? They chose themselves to use the E-Timer, so that modern day people who drive them ...... could.
Speaking of... whatever happened to Guy Zaninovich?
From what I have heard that the engines and trans have been making there way back to more original. I have heard that the blocks are sleeved now and the trans are back to straight cut gears?
When I rode in a couple of them, I was told they had used Tru-fire's at one stage.
But that was in 2007 and I notice the E-timer statement above says its been in use since April 2010.
"When you're on a good thing stick to it....when you find a better thing switch to it"......??????
I think Sture Lundin, or "lundin Parts", is a supplier to Lang's.
As usual, without me saying anything negative, you guys are attacking me for my admiration of original Model T Fords.
I'm with Royce all the way. Some tiny improvements might be needed but, the way some of these cars are modified, at some point, it's no longer a Model T. Four wheel disc brakes and electronic ignitions? I mean, do you want an antique car or not? If we continue down this path, there won't be any originals left.
"at some point, it's no longer a Model T"
That seems like a silly argument to make for a Model T replica that was built in 2003...
Really? Perhaps they should have built pinto replicas instead. I find it disappointing that multi billion dollar Ford Motor Company can't maintain a simple set of coil points when an average man like me is having no trouble doing so. Perhaps they assigned the job to a new generation of "techies" from the prototype design department who value technology over historical correctness.
I wonder if they used cast iron pistons.......?
I doubt that I'll get around to using an e-timer, because the Ford system seems to work OK for me. On the other hand, I'm with Mike on the wheels. If you want the natural wood look on your car, that's fine. But in this setting the cars should look original.
Modern progress is a tough Genie to stuff back into the bottle.
Quote from Royce 'it is reprehensible'.
Definition of reprehensible = Deserving rebuke, censure, or condemnation.
If you do not think that is a negative statement, Royce, you better go back and study your dictionary.
Its my understanding that the new transmission gears failed and have been replaced by original gears. If so, then it was a design error on someone's part as a successful design using modern materials and gear technology should have been duck soup.
I vote with Royce on the ignition system. The flywheel magneto is unique and only on the Model T Ford. When you depart from this you lose the flavor of the original design.
I wonder if they used cast iron pistons.......?
I was aware that some of the T-100 parts came from one ore more of our regular parts suppliers, but my assmuption, based on Ford's having had brand new bodies made, was that the parts from Lang's would also be freshly manufactured. But hey, I could be wrong—just ask my wife.
Meantime, let me go see whether I can dig up some documention on the T-100s and if I can, will post.
Okay, here's everything I could find on the web concerning the 2008/1914 T-100 Model T Fords. You can read for yourself about whether all the parts that went into them were newly manufactured:
I know at least two, possibly three of the cars have gone back to the original design triple gears but with non-original bearings in them.
Let's all step back from the ledge. What they did and why they did it is right here, “The E-Timer retains the appearance and function of the original ignition system but eliminates the mechanical wear and periodic maintenance of the coil points and timer contacts. This is a significant cost factor for the museum considering our cars operate 7 days a week for 9 months of the year putting on between 7,000 to 10,000 miles. The E-Timer has been in daily use at the Model T District in Greenfield Village since April 2010 providing dependable operation driving the equivalent of 16,000 miles. Acceleration and shifting are very smooth especially at the slow driving speeds our cars are typically driven.”
They're not converting the driveline to pintos or electric motors, they just inserted an accessory inside the commutator case. They still use the original wiring, coils and manual timing lever, just like most other T's. They know that they can convert back to the original ignition in minutes, not hours or days. Seriously, if you drove the car, you could not tell the difference, other than surprisingly smooth operation.
And as always, it's their car. If you don't want to add this particular accessory to your car, then don't. This is one of the lowest impact and easily reversible modifications that I've seen and to my eye, less offensive than a water pump. I don't care for Hassler "shocks" but I don't think that you're wrong if you want them. I certainly wouldn't call your choice reprehensible.
But above all, this is merely my opinion, just like anyone else's. Just because we don't agree doesn't make me right and you wrong, nor does it make you right and me wrong. We're both right for our own reasons. We should be able to get along and enjoy our hobby with respect and tolerance.
Royce posts once and then you have to wade through 10 posts from his detractors. We get it by now.
I guess it's my turn to weigh in. The three 1914 reproductions were indeed finished by Jack Putnam as were several original engines on the Village cars. The major modifications to the engines are the addition of 12 volt systems to fire off the starters and some of the cars are running alternators since they may get stuck idling at the dock during slower times. Many of the engines have hour meters to track running times. One engine has an eTimer and I was told last weekend that one has a True Fire. The rest of the Ts retain original ignition systems with well greased timers. The spark advance has been limited on all the driver Ts and a low ratio axle has been installed in each by way of a very small pinion gear. All rear axles have been modified with safety hubs. As far as I know, all the Ts are running Kevlar bands with steel disk clutches. The modern Ford triple gears are only a memory since all transmissions have been changed over to original style drums.
Many of the guests at the Village marvel at the way the cars run. I was asked what modern parts are in the engines because many old movies show Model Ts smoking and backfiring. What keeps the cars running is daily maintenance. All cars are checked every morning before going out and the boss of the garage has an outstanding preventative maintenance program.
I do not presume to represent the Henry Ford and these are my personal opinions and observations.
That's his way of doing things..... get use to it.
I wholeheartedly agree with Eric.
...and that's my opinion.
.........and he's probably sitting back in his computer chair laughing at us .
A guy starts a thread to add a ‘wow’ about a thrill in Dearborn and the next thing you know, the gang is picking apart the T-100’s…and apparently taking sides no less…GEEZ!
Ford did the best that they could with the T-100 cars…within a budget reported to be north of a million bucks! The sad part is that as part of the project Ford created tooling, dies, and molds for items not available new or true to print as repro’s that they will not release. Their choice, their money spent. My understanding is also that those parts contracted out for complete manufacture (Lamps, etc) since not available through the parts house allows the vendors who made them to make those previously unavailable parts available to us.
Some things didn’t work out as hoped, and it was high powered experts who came up with modern ideas on materials and methods to replicate them. It was Ford transmission department itself that decided to use a more modern approach to gear shape, the ‘better idea’ to the triples and planetary. Reports are that most have been replaced with other aftermarket supply that Ford apparently was not aware of back then. Just shows a modernist view doesn’t always apply to a T and there are and always will be a few personality nuances of original ‘practice’ that doesn’t show on the drawings.
If the blocks eventually required sleeving, so be it. It would have taken over 100 pours or so IMHO to determine how to get the better ‘white’ part of ‘gray’ up to the cylinder walls ‘just right’. Today software can predict the cooling curve in 3-D on pouring iron and be pretty accurate and this helps locating pour gates and risers to put the first ‘chill’ of cooling where you actually want it. Not yet available then. Still in baby crawl then, the only way to really know was pour, modify, and re-pour until you got what you really wanted. They were also only building 6! Good thing they didn’t ask me to participate…lol…as a guy whose company pours for some of the best automotive companies in the world, I would have called for sleeves right out of the barrel! They tried guys, they really did!
As to the hidden yet functional things…their original intent was to not use anything ‘used’ as far as I understood their own self-charter to be. They decided to go electronic ignition and keep the timer look apparently, and now they have one of ‘those’ things in some of them. Should what was probably based on budget cost rumors close to a 200K car each all-in have been 300K or even more to make perfect replica’s in every way? In case you all forget, there came a point where there was a rumor that FoMoCo might just pull the plug on it before it was done.
I’m glad they did it, I’m glad they made the choices they did because they came up with 6 workable cars within the budget they had available that now apparently a few will stay near brand new and the others are used at Greenfield daily, maintained daily, using new and used parts if necessary, just to continue to promote the legacy. What can there be to gripe about?
Just my humble opinion, but you all know I tend to be grouchy on early Saturday and Sunday postings Where's my coffee!
I was typing while Tom posted....his has more fact and quantities, of course
I agree with Royce. Where does the hobby draw the line?
I don't understand why defending an original model t unique design feature draws such criticism from model t hobbyists.
Once the coil system is abandoned completely for the ease and convenience of electronic so goes the knowledge of how to rebuild and tune coils, and operate the original system.
Ford coils are still part of the E-Timer system
Ford Coils are NOT part of the True-Fire system
Vince. Because Royce is such an pot stirrer. Some of us don't need coils to enjoy a model T. Because of his negative attitude lots of us don't post anymore. If this forum was moderated he would have been banned years ago.
So negative of me to want Model T's to run on Model T parts.
I'm having the most wonderful time in my shop setting up the mag and flywheel on my '16. Over the last couple of hours, I've come back into my "office" in the front of the garage waiting for the opportunity to talk about the three (not six) reproduction Ts at the Village. Or I thought I could talk about the last unmachined block casting that is sitting in my office at work. Or I was hoping to talk about the tooling for the cars if the thread drifted that way.
Instead, it's turned into a bash fest of a man who has given us correct information on our cars spiced with a bit of personal opinion. I have had the honor of having Royce visit me in my 2 car garage while he examined the 1912 that I was getting ready for my son's 21st birthday which was coincidental with the Model T 100th birthday. Royce offered his observations and complimented me on the project in spite of me painting it myself in my 2 car garage.
This last weekend, I and another T colleague talked to my retired colleague who just purchased a '26 T and had questions. My colleague misspoke about mis-installed manifold clamps and I gently corrected him with Ford documentation. Nonetheless, he appeared upset at me for doing so. So, what do we do? Nod our heads when someone provides wrong information or offer our opinions or advice?
I've listened to Royce on this forum for many years and as a result, repaired my radiators and removed my water pumps. I still run an Anderson timer but I look for the kickback he warned us about. I still have one needle thrust bearing in Tom Jr's rear axle on the gear side, and I am running solid rollers next to my differential. I listen to each and every one of you and I make my decisions based on your advice, your evidence, as well as sound engineering data.
Drop it and get back to discussing our cars and not the men in our club. Had I known this thread would have turned into this crap, I would have never made my first factual reply.
OK the 1st. shot shows painted spokes and Rob's shows natural so maybe some are with and some are without? If they use various ign. systems perhaps they vairy the spokes/wheels too. I like the natural and I think it's common enough to be OK. Ok maybe it was just "testing". What's best maintenance wise for a fleet that needs to run.
Back to the original topic:
I didn't read the links posted by Bob C. above, and the answer to this question might be there. Do these T's have counterbalanced crankshafts? If they do, that probably would contribute to their smoother-than-usual running.
Currently there are 12 or 13 Model Ts in daily use at the Village; I didn't count that closely. A maximum of eight are in use at any one time plus the blue tow truck is always on standby. The tow truck carries three spare 30x3.5 tires and many of the cars are running demountables so flats can easily be serviced. The truck also carries several replacement coils and supply of spark plugs. During Motor Muster weekend, the tow truck provided tows to more modern and heavier vehicles and the military guys asked for it to be parked next to their crane as a comparison.
The three cars ran very quietly when they were donated and they all had black spoke wheels. The engines had aluminum pistons and counterbalanced cranks. But, More of the cars in the fleet still have conventional crankshafts.
I do not presume to represent the Henry Ford and these are my personal opinions and observations.
Taking your marbles and going home because of another forum members opinion shows a lack of tolerance of other people's opinions. Blaming someone else for not posting any longer on the forum is childish.
And yes I think Royce could show a bit more tack at times but I see nothing he has posted here that anyone should get their jockey shorts wadded up in a knot over! IMHO
I think we should reward Royce for his opinions.
We should each mail him a surplus Water Pump.
If I become chief antagonist, will you all mail your surplus pumps to me?
Actually, I already have two I overhauled, and that is probably all I'll ever need.
My Ts have ThermosTaTs, Too.
You also have to be careful which 1814 Model T you are talking about. The Village fleet has one original 1914 running daily, too. The easiest way to tell is it has Rocky Mountain brakes. The T-100s don't.
I have to admit, I have not taken the time to read this entire thread. I just logged on and noticed this one keeps being near the top, so I opened it for the first time just now. However, my first reaction to the original post was to wonder if he was trying to start something. It is common knowledge that the Henry Ford uses E-Timers. It's been discussed multiple times that that is the case. So I have to admit that thought crossed my mind. If that is not the case, then please forgive me. And I am not making any accusations, only admitting what my thoughts were, so you guys go ahead and crucify me. But given last week's thread about 'I have an E-Timer and it's greater than sliced bread. How's your E-Timer? Is it better than sliced bread too? I bet it is. I bet your E-Timer is better than sliced bread too. I know my E-Timer is better than sliced bread. Tell us how much better than sliced bread your E-Timer is 'cause mine is sure better than sliced bread.....' I wonder if this isn't just some more of the free advertising campaign that we keep seeing.
John Danuser uses this forum for free advertising and no one bats an eye. Surmised free advertising is now being tossed about without knowing the OP's intent is a far stretch.
Hal-There was no ulterior motive to this thread.I'm pretty new to the T world and was just impressed on how nice the cars look and how smooth they ran. I wanted to know how did the work. Had no idea this was another can of worms on this forum..Got my answer on the first reply, Jack - you do nice work.
Like I said in my post, I'm not making any accusations, just admitting to the world what my first thoughts were.
No offense intended. Just kinda jaded by the recurring E-Timer discussions, many of which begin as seemingly innocuous questions, and end up being an exercise in competitive urination.
Gary I'm sorry if my ads bother you, I guess I'll just let the thieves junk my parts as no one wants to know if they are available. I joined this club in 1966 and we have had 3 Natl tours, I attend lots of regional and Natl's and we are the parts supplier"s for many, I've attended tours where people break down, and NO PARTS are available, and folks either go home, or ride there new vehicles and are ashamed. I like Royce and others have opinions too, sorry just skip on thru
John, The voice of one does not stand for the voice of many. You do a great service to the hobby my friend!
Thanks for your effort in listing all of those links to the T-100 project.
I really, really wasn't to get in this but.......
So, when I put my E-Timer on our 13 (new rebuild, but the switch shorted and discharged the mag, and in car charge won't quite do it), if I have good results, and start a thread to that effect, I'm "stirring the pot" because Royce might respond negatively?
Cmon guys, this is ridiculous. We have to walk on egg shells, so we don't get him started?
John, I have no issue when you post you have items available. I understand you're a long time supporter of the hobby. That wasn't my point. My point was that Hal had no right suggesting the OP had an ulterior motive pushing the E-timer. And Jim cleared that up.
I often get into animated discussions with my old-car (and old-airplane) buddies on the subject of originality. The breakdown usually goes down like this:
If you've spent the not-inconsiderable bucks to acquire an antique vehicle (be it a wooden boat, airplane, car, whatever), it's your right to do with it as you will according to your taste and wallet.
And then the discussion continues past that point simply because it's so interesting. It's sort of like the participants have an unspoken agreement that when it comes to the issue of what one should or should not do with their antique vehicle, there's no such thing as, "None of your business!" Were we to have that attitude, all our postings would be technical and we'd lose so much of the magic we enjoy when, say, a new member gets his engine started for the first time and we pat him on the back, or when some newbie (like me) stains and varnishes a wheel and some of the guys ooh and ahh over it a bit just to make the new guy feel good—in spite of the fact that what he just accomplished actually detracts from historical accuracy.
So, okay, we have all kinds here. Most of the newbs couch their sentiments with, "In my humble opinion...," or, "For what it's worth...," etc., and that's probably the way it should be. On the other hand, we have some elder statesmen in attendance, who, by their knowledge and experience, have earned the right to shoot from the hip. Now, I happen to prefer Hap's ever tactful approach, but by the same token, when I found myself in the middle of a sticky problem, Royce, salty as he can sometimes be, was right there to help me out of a jam. Yeah, the man is opinionated and passionate, but he's also seldom (if ever) wrong when it comes to a technical issue.
Now, back about a year ago, we had a controversial poster who was so caustic and so absolutely useless that, instead of getting upset (okay, maybe just once or twice), I simply ignored his postings along with everyone else until he just went away—which is what the ne'er-do-wells always do when you ignore them long enough. I don't think we have any of that type right now, but we do have a lot of salt, pepper and cayenne. And that's okay (in my humble opinion).
while your point is valid, it's not unconditional. Let's use an extreme example and say a guy like Bill Gates buys up all of the Picasso's he can find and uses them to make pillow cases out of them. He bought them, paid for them with his own money, owns them, so he can do with them as he pleases, right?
I would think otherwise. When it comes to an object that deserves preservation for future generations to enjoy, whether it's a piece of art, a building, or an automobile, it's an (ethical) crime to destroy it, convert it, transform it, misuse it. There have been cases where people where covering their eyes and scream in emotional pain, namely when an oil sheik purchased an original 300SL Gullwing and turned it into a resto mod.
It's a long ways from a Gullwing to a Model T, but I would argue it's "wrong" to cut up a beautifully preserved original car and turn it into a hot rod. So far it's legal to do that, but I still don't think it's "right."
Wow, All I can say is that if you've never made it up here to the Henry Ford and Greenfield village and taken a ride or 3 in the cars, and see all the sites, you should. And the Old Car Festival is as good as it gets. I'm not sure, but I think that's what this thread was all about...Jim Derocher, AuGres, Michigan
For what it is worth,99.9 % of the population has probably never driven in a regular T, so if these cars, driven as much as they are have a few added items to keep that feeling of "hey do ya wont to go in a T" alive, then l'm all for it.
Who knows, maybe a few who have been driven in those T's will one day look at yours to buy for them selves...
Is it time to look at the big picture here, not snipe at the small.>>
Pay to have a ride in a Model T? Hell yeah! What a great experience.Who cares if if wasn't original. Not us 4 and we all love our original T's. Aussie Tourist at Greenfield Village in 2008 on the way to the Centennial!
BILL........ MICK ........ DAVID.........
Warwick taking the photo in front....
You make a point. Let's pull over so as to not bend this thread any further afield and continue the discussion in a thread called: "Thoughts on Originality." I'm going to start the thread with my comment and your reply and we can go on from there. I think it'd be an interesting topic. Sound good?
Whats that sound? oh thats royce whining, whats that smell? oh my god royce needs his diaper changed again
Mike. That was completely inappropriate.
Good video, the guide/Dosant is very informative. Thank you for posting,
Great video, when the T100 cars were using Anco timers.