Did I buy the wrong type of oil?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Did I buy the wrong type of oil?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 11:16 pm:

I've learned from the forum that the way to deal with oil is to buy the cheapest stuff there is and change it frequently. So I went to the local Dollar Store and picked up several quarts of Spectrol Synthetic Blend GF-5, 5W-30.

Before pouring it in, the little angel on my shoulder told me to read the label first. I did, and it said this:

API Service SN, SM, SL, SJ
ILSAC GF-5
SYNTHETIC BLEND
Spectrol synthetic blend 5w-30 motor oil is a passenger car crankcase oil of premium quality formulated for gasoline engines using highly refined paraffinic base oils, synthetic based oils and carefully selected additives approved for GF-5, resource conserving. It provides superior thermal and oxidation stability, corrosion and valve train wear protections and prevents the formation and accumulation of deposit and sludge. Advanced GF-5 formulation focuses on engine cleanliness, phosphorus retention and increased fuel efficiency. SPECTROL API SN/ILSAC GF-5 and API SN.

When I saw the word, "paraffinic," I figured that's wax and wax doesn't belong in a Model T's crankcase. Uh... does it?

Anyway, I figured I'd ask the forum's advice as to whether this stuff is okay to use—or should I just return it to the store?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 11:24 pm:

Doubt it would hurt much. What is the worst that could happen? Might be too slippery & make the clutch slip. No worries there, You can change the oil if it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 11:35 pm:

Motor Oils are either refined from asphalt base or paraffin base crude oils. Pennsylvania crudes were mostly paraffin based and most other crudes are asphalt base. Manufacturers such as Pennzoil, Quaker State and Amalie used to advertise that their oils were paraffin based and presumably superior.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 11:37 pm:

You almost can't buy the 'wrong kind of oil' for a Model T. Virtually every oil made today has better lubricating qualities than what these cars ran on originally. I use Shell Rotella (diesel oil) 10/40 in mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:24 am:

One of the claims to fame of synthetic blend oil with GF-5 is
'HELPS CLEAN OUT SLUDGE LESSER OILS LEAVE'

so if the inside of your engine looks like this, it gives you something to think about!! do you want that crap dislodged and floating through your babbit?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:01 am:

I do not believe there is any oil that will dislodge that crap.
I have seen engines like that that the owner had run detergent oil in for 10 years and changed it more than 20 times in 10 years and it never cleaned a bit of the crud out or caused it to plug oil lines.
With 50 lbs. of oil pressure do you really think that crud would plug an oil line? How is it going to get through the oil pump screen of a modern engine? The screen gets clogged from using non-detergent oil and not changing it often enough, not from crud breaking loose.
On a T many say the oil goes in the sides of the rod & main journals and lubricates that way. What is to clog up if the crud did come loose?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 02:14 am:

make sure the oil you use does not contain graphite, this will short out the magneto.

Don't know if any are available now but a few years ago several Model T's suffered magneto failure because of one or more oils with graphite in them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:13 am:

Aaron, The T engine has the oil line to the front, even lint from the bands can clog it, also the mains are oil fed from a hole from the top of each bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:42 am:

Bob,

Paraffin base or asphalt base is a don't care in a detergent oil. In a non detergent oil it is just two different kinds of sludge that will quickly form on every surface inside the engine. Either way the oil you bought is fine for your Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:46 am:

I laugh when people say to use "the cheapest oil you can find" in your Model T. The underlying argument is that any oil today is better than the oil when Model T's were new.

That is like saying "Find the crappiest, pot-holed road you can to drive your Model T on, because even today's crappy roads are better than the best road back then."

Does the money one saves on oil go in an engine rebuild jar? I wouldn't know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:51 am:

Dan,

The point is that the cheapest oil you can buy is overkill for a Model T. Wal Mart brand 5W-30 will perform every bit as good as the most expensive synthetic oil you can buy in a Model T.

The difference is the amount of money you can spend on anything else - that part is your decision.

Synthetic oils do have worthy applications, but provide no advantage to a Model T owner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:28 am:

Back when I was working, I had a mechanic that worked for me on our fleet of school buses, and he was emphatic about avoiding parrafin based oils. Said they'll gunk up the engine quicker'n anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:01 am:

Tim,

There was a mistake in Quaker State oil refining processes in the late 1960's that caused a lot of engine trouble for a lot of drivers. It was not caused by the type of oil base, but there are always folks who will tell you anything you want to hear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:06 am:

Pennsoil, Quaker State and Havoline will blacken and sludge up a motor faster than you can burn a pancake. Those oils should never be put in a motor of any type. Valvoline and Castrol will keep your motor clean for many a mile. I worked as a line mechanic for many a year and thats what I saw. You pick what you want. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:28 am:

As usual I am confused..

I used Quaker State and Pennzoil in my Alfa Romeos and Datsun for years without a problem.
I was lucky during the 60's Quaker State problem because I purchased Pennzoil that go around.

At that time many folks said that the only oil to use in your foreign car was Castrol, but I was too cheap.

Now days I purchase the cheapest brand name oil I can find for my vehicles and usually stay away from house brands.

As many have said any of today's oils are way better than what was available back-in-the-day with the caution of staying away from the graphite stuff for your T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:50 am:

The usual reason for using synthetic oil is that it will last longer between oil changes. However, that is when driving a car with a full flow oil filter. A Model T does not have a filter, except for an accessory screen some owners place over the transmission which will catch some, but not all of the oil thrown up by the flywheel. So you will still need to change the oil often. Since the oil was at the dollar store, you probably couldn't get oil for a lower price. I don't see that there would be any disadvantage to using it. But remember to change it often.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:12 pm:

I concur with Royce, with frequent oil changes as our t's require Wally oil will work for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:50 pm:

If you guys who speak against synthetic oils, or at least see no benefit in them, would try them, you would find that even after 1500 miles, the oil is still clear, though a bit deeper amber in color. In my thinking, that equates to less engine wear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 02:17 pm:

One of the advantages of diesel-specific oil is its ability to pick up and transport solids such as carbon while still being "legal" for street use. That's why many classic car and motorcycle owners choose this for lubrication of their non-diesel vehicles.

If an oil doesn't change color as quickly, it means one or both of these two things:
1) the engine is relatively clean inside, and
2) the oil is not picking up the dirt and sludge as well, and instead is designed to have the oil filter take care of this. Only problem is: there is no oil filter in a Model T!

If you put a money-for-value formula together specifically for Model T engines, then 2 oil changes with $3.50 per quart oil beats 1 oil change with $7.00 per quart oil outright.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 02:30 pm:

I like to spoil my Model T and use only the best products in her. In the case of oil, I use "Mobil 1" 5w30 synthetic oil. While it is expensive... to me, the extra cost is worth it in performance and reduction in wear to the parts, which, with (8) babbited bearings (main and rods) and many old and delicate unconventional systems and parts, as well as its' tendency to run at hotter temperatures than modern cars, I believe are important reasons to not skimp on quality just to save a few dollars, or because you don't feel that the Model T needs the extra protection provided by more expensive and better oils such as "Mobil 1". NASCAR has "Mobil 1" listed as their official oil. Whether going 200 mph or 30, lubrication is just as crucial to a Model T, as to a racecar and if that extra protection will help to prevent a catastrophic failure or a breakdown in the middle of nowhere, it will have more than paid for itself.

I'm getting ready to change my oil today (last change was in December, 2010) and am switching up to "Mobil 1", 10w30 as I plan on adding 1 qt of Marvel Mystery oil to 3.5 qts of "Mobil 1". I'm interested in seeing if it makes a difference. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:14 pm:

Sounds like an expensive experiment. My suggestion: Use 4 quarts of Mobil One and return the Marvel Mystery Oil for a refund. Why would you want to dilute the best oil available with a snake oil product from years ago?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:15 pm:

Jim - I guess if it makes you feel good and you can afford it,.....do it! There can certainly be no good argument against using good quality oil!

You said,...."I'm interested in seeing if it makes a difference." I'm wondering what kind of a difference you're looking for???

This reminds me of the on-going argument my wife and I have; she insists on buying bottled drinking water, and I keep telling her we're throwing money away because here in western Washington, we certainly have good drinking water. I have always drunk tap water all my life, here in Washington, for 10 years in Montana, and for nearly 30 years before that in suburban Chicago, and we're now both in our 70's and I seem to be doing as well as her! I suppose if I die first, she'll say,...."yeah, I tried to tell him",.......ha,ha,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:21 pm:

Jim - I guess if it makes you feel good and you can afford it,.....do it! There can certainly be no good argument against using good quality oil!

You said,...."I'm interested in seeing if it makes a difference." I'm wondering what kind of a difference you're looking for???

This reminds me of the on-going argument my wife and I have; she insists on buying bottled drinking water, and I keep telling her we're throwing money away because here in western Washington, we certainly have good drinking water. I have always drunk tap water all my life, here in Washington, for 10 years in Montana, and for nearly 30 years before that in suburban Chicago, and we're now both in our 70's and I seem to be doing as well as her! I suppose if I die first, she'll say,...."yeah, I tried to tell him",.......ha,ha,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:54 pm:

Harold, I can understand your analogy about the bottled water. I try and tell my wife the bottled water she buys is no cleaner than what we get from the tap and that it's a waste of money, plus all that plastic is going still be here 10,000 years from now, but she still buys it and I still drink from the tap, so I'm with you there.

As for the change I'm looking for, I'll know it when I feel it. My Model T already runs like a sewing machine, but if I can get even more performance out of it and do the engine some good in the process, I guess that is what I'm looking for. Like any antique mechanical contraption the Model T should be babied and pampered so it will last as long as possible. It may turn out that the MMO does no good in which case, I won't use it anymore, but a lot of folks I respect in the MMO thread touted its' benefits and it made sense to me and I won't know until I try it, so here goes.

I just changed my oil and read the MMO instructions as to how much to mix into the oil. Is says 20% of the total so 4.5 quarts comes out to 144 ozs X 20% (.20) = 28.8 ozs. to 3.6 qts. of oil. It also said to mix 4 ozs in with 10 gals of gas, which I also did. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:07 pm:

"You can lead a horse to water..............."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 05:56 pm:

I just took my Model T out for a long test drive after the MMO + oil change and I must admit, it does run, sound and perform better. I thought it ran great before, but now, there is definitely a difference for the better. I used to have to push forward on the emergency brake lever while reaching down and pulling up on the clutch pedal to fully shift into high and now I no longer have to do that, as it pops up into high on its' own. It also seems to run smoother with less vibration with 2 ozs. of MMO in 7 gals of gas. All in all, from now on, MMO will be a permanent fixture in the life of my Model T. To each his own. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:45 pm:

Jim:

It's all in the "Mystery" !!!!!

Good stuff that keeps valves & rings working right.
Shifting into high will get better and smoother.

IMHO

Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:20 pm:

If you buy mobile one oil you could use it twice if you have a worn modern car with a filter drain it from the T strain it into the modern car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:28 pm:

As I've said before, I had to jack up a wheel on our cars in the cold of winter to start them, around 15 degrees F and colder. When I switched to synthetic, I could crank start them without the jack. That told me less friction. That's why I use oil, less friction.

It might be "overkill" but I use synthetic in everything.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:51 pm:

We have 2001 Corolla that has been driven 196,000 miles on Walfart's cheapest oil. It is made by Quaker Penn and even after running a thousand miles after an oil change the oil is so clear on the stick that it is almost impossible to tell if the oil is low or full.
I worked as a line Mechanic at British Motor Car Distributors in San Francisco three different times from '66 to '78.
They used nothing but Quaker Sate in all cars which include Rolls Royce, Jensen, Jensen Healy MG, Austin, Bently, Jaguar and Maserati.
plus, they serviced Buicks and Chryslers.
I never saw the black sludge build-up that Robert Scott Owens says is sure to happen and never heard of a customer complaint to that effect.
There are millions of steady users of Quaker-Penn oils that are satisfied customers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:51 pm:

OH, by the way, synthetic blend means it has at least 10% synthetic oil in the mixture.
How's that for a rip?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 01:38 am:

Jim Patrick,
"the best?" I mean really? An engine oil change on a Ferrari Enzo costs $1,400. Guess why? The best? You have no idea what you are talking about. Word is that Ferrari Formula 1 oil from Agip sells for about $450 per quart. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, and I'm saying this with the utmost respect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 03:45 am:

Bernard.

Jeez! $450.00 per quart? You're right! I had no idea. Maybe I should have said "better than average". :-)

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 04:12 am:

Any Walmart oil is not only better than average but in a totally different universe compared to the black gold that was available close to a century ago. I admit, if someone changes the engine oil in their Model T twice a year, then the difference between $18.95 for Wally oil compared to $34.99 for Mobil 1 isn't going to make any significant difference. Yet I fail to see where the synthetic would be better, save for cold start in Alaska in the winter, where I would use 0W-10 -- plus two layers of Long John's -- anyway.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration