See the mess I found today!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: See the mess I found today!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:41 am:

Will fix tomorrow.

fuz

fuzz

fz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:47 am:

What is that???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:59 am:

The spools look like they've been whacking into stuff that is flying around in the transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:04 am:

Looks like shards of granite between the magnets but that is not possible. What is that grey material? What happened and what damage was caused? Top coil winding insulation doesn't appear damaged, just the spools, but that is only what you can see without dismantling. May be more damage below. Let us know what you find as you get deeper in. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, Mostly in Dearborn on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:08 am:

Is that the felt half round cover seal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:41 am:

more tonight

y

o


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:17 am:

Ring gear teeth a bit chewed. Has something off the Bendix been bouncing around in there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:50 am:

The grey stuff is Kevlar depot. I think you will need to change the transmission bands and add a filter under the transmission inspection plate.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:05 am:

This what I found a few years ago.
I didn't use kevlar again. Put wood band lining on the bands.

Andre
belgium







Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:20 am:

Kevlar Deposits did THAT? I wouldn't think deposits resembling steel wool, would gouge out the spools in such a way. I am ignorant of the properties of Kevlar. All I know is that Kevlar is supposed to be as strong or stronger than steel and that Kevlar bands are yellow, yet the deposits pictured are grey. Where did the grey come from and where did the yellow go? What caused the Kevlar bands to disintegrate in such a way?

I sure am glad I elected to use Guinn Wood bands. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:40 am:

Would that be babbit out of the 3rd main bearing? It seems to be located right behind the rear main cap.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:40 am:

The buildup is from the Kevlar bands, but I doubt the damage to Dean's spools is from the band residue buildup. Those spools have been in contact with something hard. I wonder if the Bendix has anything to do with it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:45 am:

That better not be from Rob's K!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:16 pm:

More
m
k
h


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:19 pm:

What caused the lining to shred?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:22 pm:

Towing a trailer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:26 pm:

Anxiously awaiting the cause of the nicks and gouges in the magnet spacers. The loose coil wire slapping around is not strong enough to cause those gouges, is it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:27 pm:

coil band magnet band...whatever that thin copper strip is called ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:28 pm:

Those look like pieces of the clutch lug shoes in the brake drum. I have a collection of those myself. There was a problem with them being made wrong a few years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:31 pm:

Dean
In the upper photo think I spot pieces of the notorious failed transmission lug shoes that were being sold a few years ago.
I was closely involved in research and analysis of the causes of that problem. Search the Forum and you will find a detailed history of this problem, conclusions and the final resolution.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:34 pm:

Looks like some of those bad clutch disk shoes from a few years back? How do you tell the defective ones as I just last night found a bag of new that I haven't installed.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:35 pm:

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:39 pm:

How did that shim get loose? It looks like all four bolts are still wired in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:30 pm:

Can you post a photo of the intact lug shoe in question? I can't place it. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:58 pm:

Jim
Here you go. T-754 Transmission Brake Drum Lug Shoe.
Be sure to search for the long Forum thread a few years ago about this part, it was very interesting.
1
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:18 pm:

Is that a cracked drum?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:03 pm:

Thanks Ron. Got my bearings now. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:33 pm:

Looks just like this one, huh?

drumloco.jpg

This tranny had less than 40 miles since prof rebuild. Kevlar is that unforgiving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:35 pm:

You can find info on the failed transmission lug shoes at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/27037.html

The new and improved lugs were available April 2007.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/27823.html?1176830937

One thing I did not see is how to easily identify the defective part from the improved part. Maybe someone knows and can post that here. I would assume that all new ones are good but it is very likely some defective parts are still in service.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:38 pm:

Hey, Ralph -- Don't blame the kevlar bands, blame the guy who had them too tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:00 pm:

I repeat, Mike, kevlar is that unforgiving.

Tight wood bands wear down the wood, not the drum. Not only that, it's obvious when you have wood too tight..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave DeYoung on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:04 pm:

Rick: I have a low drum that looks just like that one with about the same amount of miles on it after a rebuild. I have not run kevlar since except for the brake.

Mike: Tight was not the problem with mine. Downshifting to low to aid braking was the more likely culprit. I don't do that anymore either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:15 pm:

Yes transmission lug shoes caused the damage. The fuzz is cotton band fuzz from 2006-2008. It burns.
l


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:31 pm:

If you downshift to low, do it firmly and don't slip the band. Let the engine due the braking, not the low drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 05:57 am:

Royes,
Yes it was a cracked drum. Replaced it with a new drum and wooden band lining. Since than I just had to adjust the bands once after about 50 miles and didn't touched them since.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

It's always the (gun) never the one pulling the trigger..!
Same as the Kevlar saga....Blah... Blah... Blah.
I've used them for over 7-8 years with no issues maybe I'm lucky or maybe my driving habits are different, than some or maybe my drums wasn't cracked when I installed them...?
There's a million things that can kill our 100 year old cars and the big hitter is us trying to drive them like a 2013 model....
Just my 2 cents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:32 pm:

Right on, Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 08:15 am:

Well Steve,
I will give you my 2 euro cents.
I am driving t's for 15 years now and rebuild a few. Five years ago I started to use the Kevlar on 3 cars and 2 of them had a drum cracked after two seasons . In the beginning the slow speed pedals are hard but after a few drives the slow speed pedals became spongy and you can't block the drum as you should do. The drum is taking heat and cracks.
Before the kevlar I used cotton in 3 cars and wood in an other. The cotton was used and changed to kevlar and the drum story followed. The wood is in the other car for 8 years now and is still working. Oil is always clean as well as the engine and the filter.

0.02

Andre
belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 08:19 am:

Use Kevlar if you don't want to change the bands as often.

Use wood if you don't want to change the drums as often. :-)


Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 12:16 pm:

I'm not trying to be argumentative about this topic, but I'll say this: Hundreds of T owners/drivers have driven with Kevlar bands, thousands of miles per year, year after year, without having a broken drum as a result. I don't agree that using Kevlar bands is the problem when a broken drum occurs.

They may be called unforgiving, if you like. They may also be called the most durable band material available. They are not the same as other band types and can't be adjusted or driven exactly the same way as other band types. But blaming the band material when a drum breaks is not an accurate assessment of the problem, in my opinion.

I once bought a car in which the previous owner had installed wood band linings. He was very proud of that, and he drove the car 20 mph, tops. The wood bands worked well for him. When I had to make a panic stop in the car, the brake turned to mush. I replaced that band with Kevlar and never again had a problem with it. I will never again use wooden bands in my T's. Obviously many folks here think wood bands are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have no problem allowing those folks to use them, and I won't criticize them for it. But you won't find them on my car ever again.

Do as you please, but please don't tell me I'm wrong (or stupid, or naive, etc.) for using Kevlar bands in my cars. I like them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, June 27, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

Here are a couple Model T secrets that most people don't know or believe.

1. The Model T was not designed to crawl at 3 mph through a long parade in Low.

2. The Model T will make most hills in high, if the coils and compression are both good.

3. The real secret is to keep your feet off the pedals most of the time, either drive in high or turn off the engine.

My kevlar bands have been in for 13 years and they may require half a turn for an adjustment each or every other year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, June 28, 2013 - 12:34 am:

^ .........I REALLY like your "secrets" James....... :-)


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