Flushing the crankcase prior to changing the oil

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Flushing the crankcase prior to changing the oil
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:48 am:

I am getting ready to change my oil this afternoon. I just purchased 4 qts of Mobil 10w30 synthetic oil (if its' good enough to be NASCAR's official oil, it is good enough for Miss Daisy) and a gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil. As per the recent thread I will add 1 qt of MMO to 3.5 qts of oil. I will also be adding 1 oz of MMO to my remaining 5 gallons of non ethanol gas in the fuel tank.

Question: Whether modern or vintage, on road or off or motorized yard equipment, I have always flushed my oil lubricated motors with motor Flush, prior to changing the oil. The directions on the NAPA motor flush bottle call for adding the qt. of motor flush to the old oil and run the engine for a few minutes. I think this will serve to get alot of the old oil out of the nooks and crannies and folds of the coil windings insulation, so as not to contaminate the new oil. Does anyone have a better idea as to what is the best and safest way to completely flush a Model T crankcase of old oil prior to adding the new oil? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:50 am:

PS. That is "Mobil 1" synthetic oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:56 am:

Hugh tells me that a 2% solution of modified bitumen roofing tar in muriatic acid will get it really clean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:03 am:

I would suggest flushing with motor oil about every 500 to 1000 miles. Drain out the old oil, put in new oil and let it circulate for 500 to 1000 miles and repeat as necessary.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:35 pm:

Jim,

I've never used the motor flush stuff but consider that when you drain your oil there is still quite a bit left in the dipped portion of the pan. Unless you pull that inspection cover on the bottom of the pan, you really aren't draining all the oil. Do you want to have some of the flush stuff mixed in with your new oil?

I'd pass on the special flush stuff and go with Jim's suggestion.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:38 pm:

Jim,

I imagine your motor flush is of a thin viscosity? If so, I would recommend flushing the thinned out old motor oil with a quart or two of your new oil. Unlike modern vehicles, the T keeps maybe a quart of it's old oil in the engine's dipper pan. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the engine flush, but if you do choose to use it and it is something that will thin out the old oil, you will have a quart of thinned out old dirty oil sitting in the dipper pan. The only way to semi-sorta get it out is to flush it out with new oil and hope it pushes it on through. Jacking up the front end may help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:39 pm:

Oops. Walt beat me to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

Jim,
The most important thing to remember when flushing is to jiggle the handle after your done so the water stops flowing.

In my humble opinion you are out of your mind, but my opinion doesn't matter! :-)

If flushing has to be done, I would do the following:
(in fact I did it to my T when it was put back into service after 45 years in the barn)

1. drain the oil
2. fill the motor with kerosene until you can see the level at the fill hole.
3. let the car sit for a few hours.
4. Jack up the front of the vehicle 6 - 8 inches
5. drain the kerosene and let it sit for about an hour to allow it to drain completely
6. close things up level the car and add 10-30 oil
7. MMO may sound like a good idea but someone reminded us that it will lower the viscosity of the oil so I would not do it
8. Mobile 1 is a great idea if your planning on running at 200 MPH for 500 miles.

My T has a self draining feature where all I do is add oil every so often.

By the way - flushing with kerosene is recommended in one of the Ford owner's manual


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:57 pm:

Jim:
I would recommend running the engine till hot, maybe a 5 mile ride, then drain the oil.

The little non-drained oil in the engine will mix with the Mobil 1 just fine. No need for engine flush.

I would use a pint of MMO to 4 quarts of Mobil 1. , and us in the gas according to the MMO container.

Your choice is your choice. Enjoy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:32 pm:

I don't know whether motor-flush is aggressively solvent, so I'd hesitate to use it for fear of what it might do to the magneto windings.

To reduce the volume of splash and splatter that takes place when unscrewing the plug, I first drain from the lower spigot until it stops flowing (which seems to take exactly as long as one episode of The Big Bang Theory). Then, there's only about two quarts left.

I attempt to drain the dips in the pan by jacking up the front end and "rinsing" it through with a quart of new motor oil (and sometimes, if I have it laying around, I'll add some Marvel Mystery Oil to my "rinse oil"). I let that drain out and then un-jack the car so the rear part of the pan can drain, too. Then, I screw in the plug and slowly fill the crankcase with fresh motor oil until it begins to drip out of the upper spigot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:41 pm:

Bob says, "...I'd hesitate to use it for fear of what it might do to the magneto windings."

Jerry says, "Me too!". Ditto for kerosene.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:55 pm:

Thank you. You've convinced me. Since I don't know what is in the motor flush and do not want to destroy the Glyptal coating Wally used to insulate my "Total Recoil" rebuilt coil linings, I'm not going to use it. Instead, I'm going take your advice and go for a 5 mile drive, then jack the car up about a foot and let the hot oil run out. Then lower her down, close 'er up and add the 1qt:3.5qts ratio of MMO:Mobil 1 oil mix. I normally use the 5w30 oil, but am going with the heavier 10w30 to compensate for the amount that the MMO is going to decrease the viscosity. Thanks everyone. You've all given me some great advice and cautionary warnings I did not consider. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:15 pm:

My suggestion: Use 4 quarts of Mobil One and return the Marvel Mystery Oil for a refund. Why would you want to dilute the best oil available with a snake oil product from years ago?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:02 pm:

They keep telling you Jim: MM might not exactly be junk but why use it at all never mind a quart which isn't recommended in the can's instructions anyway? Jim T, Bob and Ted are dead on. And stay the hell away from motor flush before you break loose some bit that's snugly tucked away in the block some where and finds it's way into some important passage. Non-T but Ford: a friend used that c**p years back on his '68 Mustang and promptly lost oil pressure. The stuff worked. It sent a bit of crud into the oil pump regulator and zip no pressure. Good thing they had that tube type bolted in front cross member so I dropped that & the pan & pump. 1 new pump later he was OK again. Do you have a spare motor layin' around that you want to throw in? If not don't experiment. You have a good running car which probably has the correct oil in it now why play games?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:10 pm:

I don't think you need to use any flush. The recommended 500-1000 mile oil changes will keep it flushed. The engine should have been driven and the oil warmed up before the change and then let it drain overnight. Jacking up the front will get some of the oil out of the dips as will slowly turning the crankshaft a few times so the rod bearings will force some of the oil to run toward the back while the front is jacked up. For those who think that the oil leaking out is as good as an oil change, note this. All the points where the oil leaks (exception of a bad gasket on the oil drain plug) are above the crankcase, so the dirt and gunk stays in the bottom. The oil still needs changing to get rid of the gunk in the bottom.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 05:25 pm:

I cast my vote for Jim's method. I'm now on my 3rd oil change since Lizzy woke up and the oil is staying clear and clean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 05:38 pm:

Kerosene.. just like the Ford manual says always worked well for me. My oil stays nice and clean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:23 pm:

Diesel also works good for flushing out engines. Kerosene is as good or better than most anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:28 pm:

I posted this on another thread and I'll post it here as well. After taking my T on a long drive, I just got back and just changed my oil mixing in 28.8ozs. of Marvel Mystery Oil to 3.6 qts. of Mobil 1, 10w40. The direction on the MMO bottle said to mix in a ratio of 20%. 4.5qts. x 32ozs. = 144ozs. x 20% (.20) = 28.8ozs. so that's what I did. I mixed it in a bucket before pouring it into the empty crankcase. I also put 2ozs. of MMO in the remaining 7 gals of gas (The MMO directions said to put in 4ozs. per 10 gals of gas).

I just got back from taking her on a long test drive and while I thought it ran well before, I must admit that it does run, sound and perform even better now than before. When shifting into high, I used to have to push forward on the emergency brake lever and reach down and pull up on the clutch pedal, but now it pops into high on its' own. The engine seems to run smoother now too and does not vibrate as much at the higher speeds.

I don't "experiment" on my T lightly. I have had it for 43 years and I treat it as one of my most treasured possessions. When something has been done for decades, such as mixing MMO into fuel and gasoline, I don't consider it an experiment and when something like this is recommended to us by several of our most trusted, knowledgeable and respected members who only have the best interest of our hobby and our Model T's in mind, I am fairly confident that what they recommend will not be detrimental to my Model T.

If I ever decide to do anything that has been recommended on this site by members I trust and respect, it is my decision and the responsibility, benefits or consequences are mine and mine alone. As for this "experiment", it was a complete success for me and I know that Marvel Mystery Oil is going to be a permanent fixture in the maintenance of my Model T. You can do what you want with your car, but without experimentation by Henry Ford, we would not even have the Model T so let's be thankful for experiments. Especially the successful ones that exceed our expectations and improve on perfection. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:30 pm:

Oops. I meant Mobil 1, 10w30. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:54 pm:

Wow. Cheaper than an E Timer and the same results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:47 pm:

Hal:

In your dreams

Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:54 pm:

Bob,

I know that Mobil 1 and MMO can get expensive, but they are definitely still cheaper than an E-Timer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:55 pm:

Jim: "I changed my oil and the engine runs smoother with less vibration". And the hand brake lever doesn't move backward on it's own any more. And MM did that. Send 'em an e-mail. I'm not trying to be a wise guy but you're trying to justify an experiment (taken lightly or not) and an unnecessary out of pocket expense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:57 pm:

Hal. I currently have an old original roller type commutator. Do you think I can get it running EVEN better with an E-timer??? :-) Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:11 pm:

I don't know Jim. You said "it does run, sound and perform even better now than before." And "The engine seems to run smoother now too and does not vibrate as much..." Those are exactly the kinds of comments I have heard from people touting the E-Timer. It's not exactly scientific, but one of the E-Timer's biggest proponents has mentioned on more than one occasion that his evaluation is "seat of the pants", so who knows?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:34 pm:

Why add oil to oil? What is the magic of MMO? I know it works pretty good in air tools.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 08:57 pm:

A lot of crud gets lodged around the threaded horseshoes that hold the inspection cover bolts. You'll be surprised when you remove the horseshoes and run you finger around the inner lip. Its not a bad idea anyway to remove the inspection cover to drain the oil caught in the dips. While you're at it, remove the horseshoes and clean the area with a cloth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:06 pm:

Jim P.
I can always get an improvement in the performance of my car and I only have to wash it.

Of course that is just my opinion and I would not bet on backing that up with any science.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:06 pm:

Jim T.

I did get caught in the rain yesterday while driving my T, so it is awfully clean...Hmmmm. Do you suppose...Nah... :-)

Jim P.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:15 pm:

Steve, Would that be Mr. Jass, you were referring to?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:40 am:

Under the FWIW category...I'll share a funny story. (at least to me).

The '15 had not had a band change since I bought it forever ago. Meticulous in oil changes for all that time. So the son says you're going to clean it all up once you pop it, let's give it a kero flush first. Told him why bother hogshead was coming off we'd just dip the whole hogshead once off..hit it with a hose and let it dry,buff up the mating surface.

Bolts out, went to slide the putty knife in, and...it hilted with NO effort! Moved over, same thing. Get it popped (actually just lifted) no evidence whatsoever of a gasket or any prior sealant! Odd...then it hit me...whoever did it last must have had a heck of a leaker...and oil was cheap! It was the sludge on the inside seam that kept it sealed! Now would kero cut that sludge? Who really knows.

Here's a photo,,,as found pan surface...before we cleaned it off and wiped it down with acetone...before an oil change...maybe it WAS just sludge holding a seal!

(I'm ashamed to admit it, but that one was always timid about marking its' spot...after the band change trial run had real follow me home 'streams', Grrr...my fault, tried 'right stuff' and I'm too slow a worker for the open time!)







Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:45 am:

Hal:

Mobil One, MMO and the E-Timer, since you brought the subject up, are CHEAPER THAN A RADIATOR !!! LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:26 am:

i use bio-diesel as engine flush and parts cleaner. It cuts better than normal diesel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:56 am:

Bio-diesel?

Is that old French fry oil from MacDonald's?


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