Experimenting on a T: I'd really like an answer.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Experimenting on a T: I'd really like an answer.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 04:59 pm:

OK. The title says it all. What possesses a guy, possibly with out extensive automotive knowledge, to make up his own coolant, engine oil or diff. lube and dump it in his T? I've been at this business professionally for over 40 years and I've never seen nor would use some of the home made stuff and mixtures I've seen here over the years. I'm amazed and annoyed at the fact that since "it hasn't blown up yet" is a common answer and that alone makes it OK. Plus a lot of times it's being told to a new comer or a shade tree mechanic who doesn't know any better and is taking the word of a Forum poster as law. Most of you guys wouldn't do this to your moderns. Possibly because of a warranty. Blow a modern/under warranty engine and tell the dealer you've been dumping an additive in the engine oil and the only guarantee you'll have is that you'll be paying for that job. Not them. I'd really like to hear some thing that will change my mind on this but frankly I know I won't. It makes no sense. It's (usually) your pride & joy and some of you treat it like the dirt under the tires. Recommended/correct anti freeze, engine oil, diff. lube: it's all available and it's all better than what was out there years ago. Don't know about you but if I put an additive in my engine and put a rod through the block a week later guess what my first thought would be? Also I'd be walking for a hell of a long time until I scraped up the kale for a fix. It may go tomorrow anyway but my conscience would be clear. Feel free to jump in. Just wipe that junk off your hands first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 05:41 pm:

The only homemade fluid I've ever used on my T is the 50/50 acetone/atf mix for penetrating oil.

All the other fluids are stock and will stay that way. ;o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:31 pm:

I guess I have missed the threads with the home made oil and coolant. I do add 2 cycle oil to my gas regularly, I did not first try it on my T, but had been using it for a few years after accidentally having miraculous results after running out of gas with a Honda 4 wheeler that had been running poorly for years. All I had on hand was gas from my powered hang glider that was 4 years old, about a half gallon in a five gallon tank, mixed with BelRay oil. I figured that it would probably not do much harm, as the Honda was barely running anyway and needed a tune up. Turns out, with in a quarter mile, the Honda was running smoothly, idling well (for the past couple of years, I had to keep my thumb on the throttle to keep it going) and would start with out having to use the inricher valve. I figured it must be a fluke, and as my wife had a 3 wheeler that was running as badly, I added some BelRay to her tank, and got the same results. Our gas in this area is notorious for varnish, I figured that every thing on the farm could use a bit of the 2 cycle oil. I now add a gallon to every thousand I have delivered. I was reminded of the old timers telling me about Marvel Mystery oil, I had always thought they were daft, but it turns out, experience is way better than anything that can be taught in a university.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:34 pm:

Charlie B. I posted an answer for you on the Motor Flush thread. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:49 pm:

I don't use MMO in my gas. I have, but couldn't tell it did anything. I would NOT use a quart of it, or any for that matter, in my oil.I have put ATF in the oil to try to get away from chattering bands. It didn't cure it overnight, but did eventually go away. Was it the ATF? Don't know. Haven't used any on subsequent oil changes and haven't needed to. However, little cans of top oil have been sold for years to put in the gas for valve lube. Needed? Who knows, but I don't believe a little MMO in the gas can hurt. A quart in the motor oil? No way!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 07:59 pm:

I've read where some brand of band recommends an over night soak before install in ATF. Not sure if putting in the eng. is recommended though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:03 pm:

Hal - Your mention of "little cans of top oil" remind me of Bardahl. Haven't thought of that for so long that I'm not sure I spelled it right! My Dad used Bardahl regularly in every car he ever had ( at least the cars he had when I was around). He used the top oil and a quart of Bardahl in the crankcase with every oil change. I have to say that my Dad always had fabulous luck with every car, but then he was a stickler on maintenance too! Not sure if they even still make Bardahl; should have checked with Google before I wrote this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:05 pm:

Yup! Bardahl's still in business (and I DID spell it right).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:35 pm:

I'm a firm believer in using Marvel Air Tool Oil for Model Ts. I use it to lubricate my impact wrench every time I plan to use it to work on the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:59 pm:

Experience seems to be better than degrees and diplomas, What a joke these university people i have to work with are! They make up what they do not know and try to hide it with flowery language. The barely literate old guy knows almost everything but does not express what he knows very well, Guess who i listen to more. Then i experiment and find what works and the old guy is often right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:09 pm:

Snake oil people should all mix a little valve grinding compound in their oil,it will give you a new moter. LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:22 pm:

It won't give you a new motor Jack but you'll be getting a new one shortly after.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:28 pm:

You are a quick learner....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:30 pm:

Charley B., if you are suggesting we should use the new long-life anti-freeze I will tell you I am NOT going to pay $4 a gallon for water.
I will keep on putting in a half gallon of the old green stuff and add a cup of soluble oil and fill the rest with water. I will keep doing that on all of my motor vehicles.
Every decent low mileage engine gets 10-30 oil, the high mileage ones get 15-40.
And my '20 & '30s cars will keep getting a mixture of gear oil and grease and STP in the gearboxes and rear ends.
Oh, and I don't give rat's but if you can still buy 600W.
I will continue to grease the U-joint with that nice runny CV joint grease too.
We'll sit back and let you tell those that ask what to use.
I have a feeling that it would be non-detergent 30, 600W and 50% anti-freeze no matter what.

When you started 40 years ago I had already been working full time as a mechanic for 20 years. And that does not prove diddly.
I have read, listened and tried it all. Plus we have a retired chemical engineer from EXXON in the family that knows about that stuff too.
Also a good customer that is a retired Standard Oil lubrication expert.
There have also been some fantastic articles posted on this website that will give you a clue as to what to use.
I think I have every right to post what I do and recommend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:33 pm:

If all the store bought mixtures are so great why does ATF mixed with acetone just beat hell out of the best penetrating oil?????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:42 pm:

Charley B:

Are you going off the deep end ? What really fueled your anger ?? Concerned.

Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:59 pm:

Nobody said you can't post what you want Aaron. I've got 40 years and you've got 60. The difference is I don't consider myself an expert. It's when the "experts" tell others to do what they do as opposed to what's recommended by a manufacturer that I have a problem. A. Gustaf posted he missed coolant home brews. Aaron just gave one. The statement by you that I suggested things is pure BS. Never happened. As to 600w: You don't use it because your expert knows better. It's your statement that an expert friend of yours knows better than Ford about what to dump in your 80+ year old car that this whole post is about. I don't care what you experiment with. I'm asking why.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:05 pm:

Bob: No anger. But have you noticed, at least so far, folks are either real defensive or comical or ask another question but no real answer has shown up? There won't be one either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:41 pm:

The only additives I have seen work is Shaler Rislone in freeing up stuck hydraulic lifters and Berryman's chem tool in gasoline.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:43 pm:

How about some other examples of what you are talking about as being home brew. MMO or diesel in the gas( the Model T was design to be run on low octane gas that was about 50 percent kerosene), soaking the new cotton bands in ATF or adding it to the oil (I think that's in the clubs transmission rebuild book), the 50/50 ATF acetone mix (there are plenty of test on that one) penetrating fluid. People have doing this kind of stuff for a long time, it's nothing new. Just like any group of guys standing around talking there's bound to be someone new that hears what they are saying and wants to try it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:22 am:

Accidentally this spring, I ran my T on a 50/50 mixture of diesel and gasoline. It ran so so, smoked a lot, and then I realized that old can of gas in the garage was really diesel fuel. I added 2 gallons of fresh gas to 2 gallons of the diesel mix and it ran just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 01:58 am:

Ted - Just had a thought,......I'll bet that your "accidental mixture" of diesel & gasoline was not too far different than the poor gasoline back in the Model "T" era when there was reportedly as much as 40% kerosene in the gasoline then. If so, you have probably experienced what people had to put up with for poor fuel back then,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 04:35 am:

Charlie,,,

Not to get your dander up, but I do keep waiting to hear someone tried the Flourinated Teflon Greases and Oils. Things like Nye Uniflor or Nye Rheolube. Sure they go 80 bucks a tube and up...but....

They cling as well as they flow...

400 degrees doesn't faze them a bit...450 gets a little dicey as it just evaporates...

As long as it is a whiteish tan it is permanent...

Starts to chocolate up you have hot spots that the lube can't get to in effect saying something else is wrong...

It doesn't need seals, even though folks still use them just because...

Gasoline and most solvents don't do a thing to it...

Think about how much packing you could do on a T with a tube!


What's there not to like other than the cost? :-)

I'm not being sarcastic, I'd be real curious if someone else had tried tho...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 04:48 am:

There is a reason some experiment, How could you not know already? Some try new things because they can. So there was this guy called Henry ford who tried to build a better autobuggy and at some point he succeeded...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 10:18 am:

Hey George,
Your comment about grease reminded me that I use another modern product, I grease my T with a Hydrotex Parasyn grease, I started using it on a Alice Chalmers articulated tractor on the cv joint for the high speed drive line. Regular grease would not last the 8 hour service interval, not even 4 hours, but the hydrotex grease lasted the full 8 hours, and some times the service interval was extended to the end of the day, making a 12 hour period between greasing with out loss of lubrication. I use it in all my grease cups and for that matter, in every thing on the farm. It costs about three times as much as calcium grease, but is 10 time better. The only problem with it is that when you get it on yourself, it is hard to get rid of.
I can not see using an expensive oil in the crank case though, I change my oil every 7 to 8 hundred miles, and the oil is the blackest I have ever seen come out of an engine, I think frequent oil changes on the engine is better than the best oil.
Respectfully
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:04 pm:

I have often wondered if there isn't something better than regular engine oil for the oil cups on a Model T. It is kinda discouraging to fill the little cups and then come back an hour later to see it has dribbled on the ground. Surely something must flow well into the joints but still cling better?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:05 pm:

I use chainsaw bar oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:23 pm:

I used to use gear oil in the ujoint area after sealing the ball joint cap down. Problem wasn't leaks but the fact that the gear oil can work itself into the crankcase. Ever put some RE lube in a crankcase? I did as a kid because I wanted to quiet a tired motor. I just didn't know better. It smoked, smelled and left a residue on everything as you might imagine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 01:26 pm:

Charlie B.,

Not sure it's the answer you're looking for but I'll try.

From day one, the Model T has attracted tinkerers. Not sure why but I have 2 theories;
1. The car was the product of a veteran tinkerer, Henry Ford. Something he instilled in it attracts other tinkerers.
2. The car is so basic & simple that it cries out for change and added complexity. Look at all the aftermarket gizmos available in the era of the T.

People have just wanted to tinker, fiddle with, "improve" and otherwise modify the T since it was new and that notion/need continues to this day.

Another thought is that there is little other outlet for tinkerers & fiddlers, (not the violin playing type), today. How would you do this stuff to your modern car? How could fix your TV? How can you fix your I-pod, (and why would you want to?)? But, with the T you've got yourself a real outlet, a nearly clean slate to experiment, fiddle, adjust, concoct, add to, subtract from and basically redesign. What a playground!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 01:30 pm:

That's pretty good Jerry. In fact that's as good as it's going to get I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 01:43 pm:

Thanks Charlie.


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