UPDATED Frustrated . . . I broke something AGAIN!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: UPDATED Frustrated . . . I broke something AGAIN!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 07:23 am:

So, it took a little while to work up the motivation to find the problem, and took even longer to actually get in there when I've been busy with other stuff.

Here's my other thread if you need a refresher on what happened:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/368869.html?1371819925

Anyway, here's what I found.









Yes . . . seriously. I've only ever had 1 key for my T. Think about that for a minute - if I've only ever had 1 key, and this key was in there, IT'S BEEN IN THERE SINCE BEFORE I GOT THE CAR. I guess it finally worked itself loose from wherever it was hiding.

Magnets, spools, keepers, all of that seems ok. The mag coil is definitely chewed into in some places which SUCKS. If I have this thing driving again before Christmas I'll be doing well. Work-wise, I could probably do everything in a couple weeks. Money-wise, not so much. Fortunatley, the only thing it really did was goon up the mag coil since I shut it down quick and then didn't drive it anywhere but straight home really slowly.

Also - a question: should I have any play in the drums? the brake drum doesn't move or wiggle but I can rotate the reverse and clutch drums maybe a 1/4" on the transmission shaft. Part of the reason it will take a while to rebuild is because I will hate and think it stupid to pull the engine and replace the mag coil, but not go ahead and rebuild the transmission and align the transmission shaft while I have everything out. It's the only part of the car that I haven't really fooled with yet.

At least now, with a new mag coil, rebuilt trans, aligned shaft, I will have been through every single part of the whole car and it should pretty indestructible for a while.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 07:44 am:

Seth, it more than likely fell out of the switch when a previous owner forgot to take it before opening the inspection cover or pulling the hogs head. Learned this one the hard way when I first started with T's 30 plus years ago. At least you found it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 07:54 am:

I would not worry about the clutch and brake drums rotating 1/4" before resistance is felt. That's normal.

I would remove the transmission, disassemble the magnets / spools / flywheel and inspect every piece for cracks. Install a new set of spools and screws.

Inspect the transmission but don't rebuild it or replace bushings if not needed. You can cause a lot of grief for yourself by improperly setting up the transmission with too tight clearances or improperly made bushings or shafts. New is not necessarily better here.

I also highly recommend having the flywheel / transmission assembly professionally balanced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 07:56 am:

Apparently. I have the 1 that I keep up when I've had the cover off. I'm paranoid about dropping something in there whenever I have the inspection cover off or the one time I had hogshead off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:07 am:

Seth

Now that it appears that there is no real mechanical damage to the transmission, why not drive it on battery until the summer/fall driving season is over?

You can always repair the mag in the garage on a miserable cold wet winter day while your listening to 50's (40's ?) music on the CD. ;o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:11 am:

Sounds like a plan Royce.

Question for everyone - who rebuilds magneto coils?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:34 am:

Call Wally Szumowski, 733-586-4485. He requires a core before he will send you a rebuild coil ring. If you don't have a spare, PM me, I have one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 08:38 am:

RV Anderson rebuilt mine. Also recharged my magnets. Car runs 2x better on mag than battery.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:30 am:

Seth, you can run it on 6 volts fairly well all summer and fix the magneto this fall. I have a couple of Wally's coils and he does nice work. I might suggest, if you want better running at higher RPM, to put a small 12 volt battery in the car and wire it to the mag post wire to the switch. Switch to it like you did with magneto after starting. It draws so little juice you could recharge it once every few weeks and still be fine. the rest of the electrics will work off the 6 volts as normal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 09:32 am:

seth, im not sure how prices run on rebuilt/rewound coils but i think you could come close to getting your new mag rebuilt for a similar charge. If you did that you could take of the lowtention mag and put on slingers. Just a thought. Sorry for your bum luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 10:16 am:

Nathan, I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going to take as I've been thinking about it. I'm going to get some slingers and have my front plate magneto rebuilt and an impulse coupler added. If for some crazy reason I don't like the front plate mag, it's easy to go to a distributor.

The main thing I'm worried about money-wise is what all it will take to balance everything out and align the transmission shaft. It'd be silly not to do that while I have the engine out and everything all apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:13 pm:

Noel's suggestion is a great one get that T back on the road TODAY with an inexpensive 12 volt battery and work on your plan and budget at leisure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 02:57 pm:

I agree with Royce. If your transmission was working well, if things were reasonably smooth (by T standards), I wouldn't do a lot to the transmission. The play you asked about sounds normal and reasonable.
I also agree with run it and enjoy it on battery for awhile. Many Ts have been run for many years that way.
You may also find that the damage to your coil ring is not that bad and could be easily repaired. Although conventional wisdom does say to replace with a properly rebuilt one while it is apart.
I am glad to hear that it wasn't anything worse.
Thanks for the update!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 04:20 pm:

I ran one on 6 volt battery for about 10 years. It was a little slower than some, but could keep up with the others on a tour reasonably well. Later I rewound the magneto coils myself following the book "electrical system". If the copper is too damaged to rewind, you can find used coils at swap meets and between two get enough copper to rewind one. My T is now one of the faster stock T's on the tours. I charged my own magnets. Someone in your local club must have the tool to recharge the magnets. There have been threads on the forum which tell how to make one for yourself if you can't borrow one. While the engine is out, it is a good time to check and tighten the main bearings too. When you remove the flywheel from the crankshaft, you will find the flywheel and the transmission main shaft bolted to the flywheel. Mark each one so that they can be re-assembled in the same position. That way, if they have been trued up in the past, they will run the same way as before. In the transmission, inspect everything but only replace what is necessary because of excessively worn or damaged parts. Loose is better than too tight.
Norm
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 04:53 pm:

I wonder if copper foil used in the making of stained glass windows would work on these magneto coils. I know it comes on rolls, but I don't know how many different thicknesses it comes in. I think it even comes with a paper backing.

If you've ever watched "stained glass with Vicki Payne", she uses the copper foil to surround each piece of glass, then uses solder to join the pieces together into the final window.


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