Dashboard brass edge trim- aprox month in 1912 when curved top brass changed to flat top brass??

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Dashboard brass edge trim- aprox month in 1912 when curved top brass changed to flat top brass??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 05:31 pm:

That is the question in a nut shell.
We are debating the aprox month when the 1912 Ford Dashboard edge trim changed from the 1911 style ( rounded head with the edge overlap style )to the most commonly known 1913 - 1914 flat top with edge overlapping.

IF YOU HAVE A LATE 1911 THRU TO LATE 1912 can you date your car - month and year and list( CURVED OR FLAT ) it below so as to find an approximate change date.
I am guessing body style wont effect the results, but include that too just in case it does....

I believe it is March 1912..but that may very well be wrong.
Thank you in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 06:23 pm:

Arthur Mullins' 1912 #109657 has the rounded strip. This car is a second owner and Arthur is now 99 (as of 2 weeks ago). Arthur bought the car in 1935 and we know this is an original data point car.

Greg Mahon's 11912 #120062 also still has the rounded strip...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 07:19 pm:

Good Morning David, I'll assume Canadian origin vehicle...l didn't think to include that variation, but good idea.

KEEP THOSE LATE 11 THRU LATE 12 DASH STRIP STYLES/DATES COMING.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 08:03 pm:

David:

I think you are off in the wrong direction. The original drawing for the FLAT molding was October 9, 1911 which is also the date that the one piece dash was finally finalized. The so-called one-piece dash for 1912 was where the flat molding began to be used and that dash never had the curved edge that you find on the 1911-1912 Dash and its dash molding. Those dash moldings had different part numbers since the curved edge molding also was never used on a square cornered dash (Late 1911-1914) and the flat molding was never used on the 2 piece dash. The original intent was to introduce the one piece dash with the new coil box that contained a master vibrator in the box itself. That drawing was dated 9/26/11 but was quickly put on hold and that dash with the different coil hole spacing for the insulators was never used and the drawings states that. The one piece dash is shorter than the 2 piece dash by enough that things like the Delivery Car with fixed dimension tops would have had a real problem using the new one piece dash since the available Windshield would have let in a lot of rain above the windshield and unlike a roadster or touring car you cannot simply re-position the first bow to bring it down to a shorter windshield. In later production they made up a taller windshield and if you look at Delivery cars with one piece dash you will see that the lower windshield pane is much taller than the top one since that makes up for part of the missing spacer board. The other part of the missing spacer board is provided by the one piece dash being much taller than the lower part of a 2 piece dash. 3/12/12 they were still using the 2 piece dash on new cars since they changed that drawing to put the slot in it that they put into the one piece dash to allow the steering column to be easily removable but they also drilled both sides of the dashes for carb hole. From 3/12/12 onward till end of 2 piece dash - they were drilled to be reversible as where the one piece dashes which continued through 1914.

Respectfully submitted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 08:32 pm:

David, you may have mis-interpreted the post and reference to the rounded brass. When I built my 1912 Haigh's chocolates van, Arthur kindly loaned me his original firewall. {The one in the car now is a replacement}. I copied it exactly, even mis-spacing the screw holes which hold the brass moulding on the sides. It is in fact not a moulding in the sense we use the term to describe aluminium mouldings today. Rather, it is folded from brass sheet. I duplicated Arthur's piece by having a sheet metal worker cut and fold them to the same dimensions.

The edges do appear rounded, one more so than the other, but the face which follows the sawn edge of the firewall is flat.

Hope this helps,

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Saturday, June 29, 2013 - 11:42 pm:

My car is #110369. I can account for the car back to 1955 and to the best of my knowledge it is pretty original, including upholstery. It was repainted in the late 1950's, but I think that was all. I've always thought it was an April car based on the serial number, but I don't have an invoice.

Now, my problem is that I'm not clear from your photos what constitutes "rounded head" versus "flat top". Do you mean to say that the surface that is parallel to the front-to-back axis of the car has a crown ? Or is the rounded part just a generous radius where it folds over at the edges ? In my case, the edges have a pretty generous radius, but the actual surface that is parallel to the front-to-back axis of the car is dead flat.

Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 30, 2013 - 12:11 am:

Indeed, S/N 110,000 could have shipped in late March or early April 1912. This is a snippet of an accounts receivables page from FH Roads, a large dealer in Iowa.

Image property of the Benson Ford Archive, Henry Ford Museum. Used here under my license.

All of the trim made for the 1912 one piece firewall would have been made from folded brass sheet. It would surprise me if Ford had only one supplier for this part so variations surely would have existed.

We must also remember that earlier serial numbers also were being shipped at the same time. As you can see tourings 86535 and 86334 were part of the same order that included tourings serialized as high as 106879 and runabouts 103558 and 105983 on March 27, 1912.

So you can say a certain serial number could have shipped as early as a certain date, but you never know just how late a certain serial number might have shipped.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, June 30, 2013 - 11:53 am:

Just an aside - the current reproduction "flat" molding for the square dashes (1912-1914) is made to fit the "plywood dimension" that is 1/32 less than 3/4" thus if you have an original dash or make up one that is exactly correct at 3/4" thick you will have to widen the molding to make it fit. With the flat molding Ford used flat head screws along the top and "french head" screws along both sides. French head screws were simply polished oval head slotted screws. The reason for the flat head screws along the top of the flat molding will be obvious once you go to install the windshield. Without using flat head screws the w/s will be sitting on top of the oval heads along the top. I have seen many restored cars on the field with that mistake. The underside of the w/s tubing gets dimpled up pretty bad and there is also a crack between the w/s tubing and the brass flat molding if you use oval head screws along the top of the flat molding.


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