Antifreeze?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Antifreeze?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 09:36 am:

Should a particular type of store-bought or homemade antifreeze be used?

I want to reduce/prevent rust, but want to not harm the radiator or the hoses.

Thoughts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 09:55 am:

In 2010, I started a thread asking what was the best oil and antifreeze to use in my newly overhauled engine (1926 coupe). A lot of discussion and exchange of useful information ensued and the consensus of opinion was as follows:

Antifreeze: Any IAT (Inorganic Acid Technology) antifreeze. I chose Peak Zeftek IAT

Oil: Any 5w30 or 10w30, detergent type oil, depending on region and weather. I chose Mobil 1 5w30 which can be used year round here in Florida.

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/174665.html

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 09:59 am:

Oops. That should be Peak "Zerex". Not Zeftek... Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 06:34 pm:

Jim;

I've tried NAPA, Autozone, Amazon; I even tried Grainger!

I can't seem to locate anyone at any of those vendors who understands what I'm looking for.

If you have an old jug of the IAT Zerex, please let me know it's part number and/or any data on it that I can give to these vendors to narrow the search.

Thank you, Jim.

Bill Everett


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 07:13 pm:

Bill-
antifreeze-I use Prestone "Low-Tox", from O'Reilly's, it's propylene glycol rather than the ethylene type. Supposedly it's better for these old engines/radiators, and definitely better on the pets.

Oil, I use Rotella T 10W30 and add ZDDP I buy it online. Some say you don't need to add the extra zinc to the Rotella, but figure it can't hurt. (I hope) Engines look spotless inside. Never any gunk

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:20 pm:

"Automobile Engineering" 1920


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:27 pm:

"A much favored anti-freezing solution consists of calcium chloride dissolved in water......."

Ah, the good old days - salt water in the engine for winter protection. (really???)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:36 pm:

I use Prestone in a 50/50 mix. Never any troubles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 09:26 pm:

Bill. I was mistaken. It is Zerex 5/100 manufactured by Valvoline. I don't know where I got the idea that it was made by Peak. My bad. 5/100 stands for guaranteed for 5 years or 100,000 miles, but I wouldn't leave it in that long. I like to change antifreeze every 2 years. IAT is the original green type antifreeze. You can do a search in Bing for IAT antifreeze and it will give you more information. The IAT (Inorganic Acid Technology) type is more for older cars with cast iron blocks. The OAT (Organic Acid Technology) is more for newer cars with aluminum blocks. For whatever reason, the OAT is not good for older engines. The following link will take you to the Valvoline site where you can read more about the Zerex 5/100. There is also a PDF MSDS sheet giving the specs:
www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/antifreeze-radiator-products/antifreeze/40.

This site has some information about coolants and has several charts comparing the various Zerex coolants. Again the IAT is the original green type coolants:
www.cjbyron.com/fasteners/overheating.html

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 09:41 pm:

I use O'Reilly ethylene glycol, mixed 50/50 with water.

Zerex was originally ethylene glycol produced by duPont. I believe there was a methanol product called Zerone.

Both ethylene glycol and methanol are very toxic, one can kill you, one can blind you and/or kill you. Propylene glycol has low toxicity but slightly poorer heat transfer characteristics than the toxic ethylene glycol. Both glycols taste sweet and can entice animals to drink it. Usually with fatal with the ethylene variety.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 10:03 pm:

Go to farm supply store and buy the cheapest ethylene glycol antifreeze you can get.
Done....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 10:15 pm:

Be careful if you own a brass car. You get that stuff on your radiator, and you've got permanent spots!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 10:24 pm:

You Do Not want to use the Extended Life types of antifreeze. The recommended type for old cars especially the T with a non pressurized radiator is the old green conventional type. Not any of the extended life types. You can ask the mfg and they'll tell you why. I think it has something to do with the wet and dry surfaces of the non pressurized systems like our T's have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 10:51 pm:

I use a cup of soluble oil to stop the rust. No more brown water. Antifreeze is not necessary where I live.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 10:59 pm:

Soluble oil is a great way to defeat a good radiator. Adding oil to the coolant is counterproductive. A good grade of green ethylene glycol is effective and cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 11:14 pm:

I use a cup of soluble oil and a qt. of cheap green colored antifreeze here in northern Ca.
I NEVER buy the ready-mix 50/50 anti=freeze. I just hate paying $4 a gallon for water.
Since I've taken so much hell for my recommendations to new folks I will not mention that last week somebody on this forum said it would be hard to find an oil that would not be OK or just perfect for a T.
I agree. He did say, "Hard to find".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 11:55 pm:

Detergent or non-detergent oil, water or antifreeze, what type oil in the rearend, waterpump or not, Autolite or Champion or Motorcraft sparkplugs, jackrabbit clutch or turbo 400 clutch or stock clutch, distributor or magneto, kevlar or cotton or wood bands, Anderson or Ford or Newday timers, flaps in the tires, ducttape around the rims instead of flaps... These are a few of our favorite things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:31 am:

Non-Detergent
Antifreeze
600w
Not
Champion
Stock
Magneto
Wood
New Day (for now)
Flaps


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:43 am:

But Jim, what if you're wrong. Then what? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:46 am:

Oh and just for giggles I'll tell you I agree with 50% of your choices, but I'm not crazy enough to tell you which ones. I get in enough trouble on here as it is and don't want to anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:47 am:

Then I do what I always do when I'm wrong. Grin and bear it... I do a lot of grinnin'. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 01:37 am:

Yeah, me too. Sometimes it's like the world is full of mad dogs and I'm wearing dog bone underwear. And I still grin through it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 07:59 am:

I bare it every time I take a shower! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grady L Puryear on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 09:37 am:

I still don't understand the reluctance to use the so called "Permanent" anti-freeze. I have used it in all manners of vehicles ever since it became available, farm tractors, heavy equipment, and yes, in my 1925 Roadster. Never a minutes trouble. I also converted my T over to a pressurized system, but that is another story for another day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 10:22 am:

Jim, thank you. I picked up a gallon at NAPA. What do you recommend for the mixture?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 10:36 am:

50/50


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 10:43 am:

I don't know if you want to go this far, but the directions call for using distilled water to minimize mineral deposits in the cooling system. Most here would pooh pooh the idea but if you have ever seen a radiator or water jacket with a thick buildup of mineral deposits blocking the tubes, it might be worth some consideration. That's what I did in mine. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 11:03 am:

I will pick up some distilled water later this morning.

The water in the system now is somewhat rusty; I'm going to let the car come up to temperature then drain it.

I'll then re-fill it with tap water and drain it until it's clear.

Then, I'll drain and fill with 50/50.

Thanks again, Jim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:24 pm:

Bill
just saw your profile. What a nice looking car! Might you be attending the Poor Boy tour in TN in July?

I hate to rain on your parade, but draining until it's clear will only be a temporary situation. As soon as you add your antifreeze and run the car, it'll be dirty again unless you go to extraordinary lengths to mechanically and chemically clean the block.

Topping off expensive coolant with distilled water is cheap and effective at stopping the additional deposition of minerals in the cooling system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 12:31 pm:

Scott, thanks for the compliment. However, Frederick is filthy and we're cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, inside and out!

Once we get the worst of the dirty water out and add antifreeze and distilled water, is it ok for the mixture to be mildly dirty?

When/where is the tour?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 01:02 pm:

You can use a radiator flush to help get the majority of the dirt and oil out. Radiator and cooling jacket flush can be purchased at NAPA. Just follow the directions. It doesn't have to get dirty unless you somehow introduce a foreign substance into the system from the outside, such as a leaky head gasket, which allows dirty oil into the jacket. My coolant is still bright green. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 02:02 pm:

Any certain kind of radiator and cooling jacket flush?

Thank you, Jim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 02:39 pm:

I think any of them will do. You can ask the NAPA sales person what they recommend or read the ingredients and directions and get the one with the most active ingredients and easiest application. You just add it to the water and run it through for awhile to get the dirt and crud out, then drain. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Wednesday, July 03, 2013 - 02:48 pm:

I'll do it, Jim. Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 04:33 pm:

We've flushed the system pretty clean and are ready to put the antifreeze in.

I understand that 50/50 is the way to go. However, how much total coolant will the T hold?

Or, should we just put in the whole gallon of antifreeze and fill the rest with water?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 05:43 pm:

I think there is a difference in the amount of coolant the T's will hold and also depending if you have a Z head as well.
I buy the straight original/Green type and mix 50/50 with water. What ever I have left over I use then to top off later from my BoyCo can.
I think it holds a little over 3 gallons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 08:29 pm:

There are a lot of cooling system flushes out there.
I checked a bunch of labels at Carquest and found ONE that contains sodium hydroxide (lye).......that's the stuff I bought.
It did an amazing job too....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

Bill,
I would not use 50/50 antifreeze if your climate does not require it. You will likely get the required corrosion protection with just 25% antifreeze and you will not reduce the effectiveness of the coolant as much at 50/50. The more antifreeze you use, then then less effective it is at transferring heat from the engine.

Where I live I always used 1/3 antifreeze and 2/3 water and that provides all the protection from freezing and corrosion I need and saves money on antifreeze.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 02:43 am:

Good point Jim.. too much antifreeze will also leak very easy. Most of the time I end topping off with straight water so it becomes a lesser concentration long before I change it out and has always protected the alum head OK.

Someone suggested using a blast of compressed air to get all the crude out from those hard to get to spots. I guess more for the block than the radiator cause one could do some damage with too much in a weak radiator but sounded like a good idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 01:39 pm:

Personally, I would only use a 37.8% solution of mink oil, mixed with 3 grains of table salt and pure goat's milk for the balance. If you're living a cold climate I would also add some eye-of-newt. Others add wing-of-bat too but bats scare me, so I don't. There, top that.

The point of that is to say that this is all getting kind of silly. It's not that complicated. Just pain old Prestone/Zerex or equivalent, in the ratio that the manufacturer suggests is just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John B Joyce on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 03:45 pm:

Don't put in anti-freeze undiluted and then add water, it's too thick and you'll have a big burp when it gets hot with a big mess on the floor from the overflow. been there, done that and bought the tee shirt. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John B Joyce on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 03:47 pm:

Don't put in anti-freeze undiluted and then add water, it's too thick and you'll have a big burp when it gets hot with a big mess on the floor from the overflow. been there, done that and bought the tee shirt. John


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