I noticed oil all around this back wheel after a little ride yesterday.As I am novice I have no idea what is going on .Can someone tell me what it is and what I should do ? What parts to buy and what to replace /repair and how .
Ludo, that is a common problem with model Ts. There is a felt seal around the axle at the outer end of the housing. These are less than optimal, especially if the rear axle and bearing are worn. The parts vendors sell a modern style seal which fits in the same place or there are others which fit into the housing inboard of the bearing. you really ned to have good axles and bearings for either to work satisfactorily.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
There are two seals. The one inside the tube, behind the bearing, keeps rear axle oil from leaking out. If the inner seal is good, the felt outer seal is sufficient to keep in the bearing grease. If the inner seal is bad, oil leaks past it and past the outer seal. That's what's happening to your car. New inner seals should solve your problem. The neoprene seals are best.
Have you ever looked inside the rear axle housing? If not, you should see this. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html
This shows installing inner seals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfxWPsF4KhQ&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=T Lottx_i2urbg
And this is important if you don't have a lot of T experience. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html
make sure you take ample time to clean up the inside of your break drum as im sure you have discovered, the brakes are a little weak when saturated in oil. Above information is very correct its a good weekend project. I also think you need to get a sleeve puller to remove the sacrificial metal surface the outer bearing rolls on before you can put on your new inner seals. this is also a great time to inspect your outer bearings as well as that metal sleeve that goes inside the axle housing. The video above will show these parts to you. Make sure you dont feel a lip inside that piece of metal. This lip is somewhat common in rear ends that have been driven significantly. if yours has this lip, you need to buy another as this lip cocks your bearing to one side creating uneven wear on your axle and a premature failure. Also make sure your bearings check to .5 inches. I believe two thousandths either way is fine. Also make sure that they dont have any pits or scratches in them. Members here can help you get more if yours dont fit this description.
Another possible cause of your problem would be engine oil running down the driveshaft tube into the rear axle which would raise the oil level. You can check for this problem by removing the filler plug from the rear axle housing. If oil runs out, this is the problem. The oil should be even with the plug but not above it.
A lack of grease on the outer wheel bearing can also aggravate the problem.
Thank you very much for all this valuable information . This forum is a real blessing .
I got this 1913 touring since 3- 4 months months and this will not be the last surprise . Problem is I am so far away from everything .
Alan ,thank you ! I just got a friend from down under , but with good ideas up there .
Steve the youtube movie is a great help .
Nathan , I have a wheel puller , a sleeve puller , and felt which I bought with a few spares with the car, just in case .
Norman , good idea . I just checked that : no overflow . The universal joint is well greased and not leaking . I added 10 liter ( 2 quarts ) to the level a couple weeks ago .
Bill , you caught me . The first thing I did was check the grease and I should have added more .I spent time refilling that grease cup 5 or 6 times . It seems to help , at least temporarily . that needs more attention .
So if I get all this right there are 2 solutions : the immediate patch repair and also the thorough examination .
I have an order for a few spares being organised at Lang's right now . I could order some parts simultaneously .
Is the neoprene seal 2511AS ? the felt washer 2510 B ? the axle sleeve 2509QL or BQL ? Would I need anything else ? How often must the felt washer be replaced ?
Amazingly enough the axle roller shaft 2508 , as in the YouTube movie is not recommended by Lang .(the modern one is 10 times more expensive ) .
It will be an "interesting " exercise . Thanks for your help . More recommendations welcome .
While the amount of oil on your wheel is a bit excessive, it is still a great indicator that you still have oil in the axle. I begin to worry when there is no oil leaking from my T.
I would check the bearings first to make sure they are within tolerance. then you could order everything at once if you needed them. i would wash them off really well with diesel and repack them since you have the opportunity. I would feel safe with felt outer seals but i personally wouldnt use felt inner seals. I went with the neoprene seals and i am very satisfied. Good luck friend!
On the 13 the oil fill hole for the rear differential is higher than on the later cars. The oil level should be 1 inch below the fill hole. Too much oil or too thin an oil (less than 600 wt) could also cause oil to leak past the felt or neoprene seals.
correction : I added 1 liter ( +- 2 quarts ) , not 10 liter of course .
What you have has been chronic since the T first rolled out of the factory. Ford really didn't seal it, they just contained it for a while. As stated, there are fixes today that can make the problem all but go away.
What was common in the era for the mess you encounter today was to drill a 3/32-1/8 hole in the bottom of the backing plate housing on the tube to give the dribble some place to go before getting on the brakes. Not nice to Mother Nature in today view, not advocating you do so, but if you look close on more than a few survivors you will find the hole...now typically crudded over.
My '15 was one of these and came with a one pound butter 'tub' for placement underneath when parked...it actually just caught a drop or two now and then as being unsealed, it doesn't have a chance to build up a reservoir inside, and weeped before it built up on the insides of the backing plate.
Just mentioning as a matter of reference.
Not all T's are the same and Dale hit it on the head! Bud.
Ludo, you're correct on all those parts except the last. The 2511AS neoprene seal goes in the tube behind the bearing. The 2510B felt washer goes outside the bearing to hold in the grease. I don't know how long they last, but since they're cheap I'd get a few extras. Your numbers for the sleeves are correct too.
The reason 2508 is not recommended is that it's not the same as the one in the video.
On the left is the modern reproduction 2508 rear axle bearing. On the right is the original 2508 Hyatt bearing used by Ford. The modern bearing has solid rollers. The original has rollers made with spiral strips that spread the grease.
The modern bearing has only seven rollers. The Hyatt bearing has eight.
Millions of Hyatt bearing were made, so they're not difficult to find. I know nothing about the 2508DUAL and 23508ORB replacements, but I know their prices. I'd get some good original 2508 Hyatt bearings.
George , Kenneth , Steve ,
thanks for the extra help and support .Great pictures and wise comments . I'm getting ready for the big job .
Mr. Jeff, I sent you a PM
George I like this idea in your post [drill a 3/32-1/8 hole in the bottom of the backing plate housing on the tube ]Just where do you drill this oil hole? Do you have pic or instructions
Sounds like the way to go ..for me
Thank you Lorenzo
At one time I had a picture but darned if I can find it...the '15 is presently on skates and backed into the corner of the garage and covered. (I get 3 T's in a 1.5 car side of garage and have to decide which one is the current toy)
Read this post...it offers other commentary...
Ludo With the front of your T about two feet higher than the rear how high is the oil in the rear end? A cheap hand operated suction pump might be what is needed? As other's have said,Model T's will leak engine oil into the rear end.If i read your first post,it might be better to check rather than to start buying parts you may or may not need.Good luck and please tell us what you find? Bud.
Keeping the front U joint packed with grease (the large grease cup on top, just aft of the transmission) will help slow down engine oil from leaking down he tube into the rear axle, and overflowing it.
Kenneth , John ,
thanks for your advice . Somebody spoke of a " week-end project " . Not only am I novice , but I didn't feel to confident with all these good inputs . So I decided to lift the left rear wheel and pull the wheel off . I have a wheel puller , ordered with the car . Nobody told me to put the can in high gear , so it can't move , but I found out that that is better than have the brake on ..... And wheel blocks every where for safety .
The first two pictures are what I found . I did not realize there were no springs and that the brake was broken .
I simply supposed people might have done things differently in the old days . I put a wire around the 2 parts to get the wheel back on .
Then , before ordering I looked at the left wheel . A wise precaution . Here is what I found :
This looks like " just in time management " .
I learn fast sometimes . This needs rather immediate attention . The Lang catalog helps and I got hints and comments from André Valkenaers , who comments on the forum sometimes . He lives in Belgium too .
I think a thorough job , no fiddling around or pasting temporarily is necessary . This means :
new brakes , new bearings , new inner and outer gaskets in neoprene, a couple shims .
It is amazing that I hear that leakage makes part of the system . This must decrease the gripping power of the brakes .
I look forward to drive in confidence again .
Uh-oh. You'd better take a look at this: