1926 coupe?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: 1926 coupe?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 03:33 pm:

I have a coupe that i think is a 1926. The number on the passenger frame rail is 1303384 or 13033834 can not tell for sure on a 3 or 8 .It has a engine no of 11771562 so i assume it is a older motor.And no it will not become a hotrod or a rat rod. I was asked twice to sell it for that purpose hauling it home. Thanks Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 03:57 pm:

13033834 would be a 1926. 1303384 would be 1916. Probably a 26 because that is the year they started stamping numbers on the frame.
http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 10:43 pm:

Marvin. If your '26 coupe is complete with fenders, it is easy to tell a '26, just by looking at the fenders. In 1926, the improved, all steel body was introduced, with lowered body and more rounded fenders. Here are a couple of pictures of my '26 coupe. Notice how the front fenders follow the curvature of the wheel and continue to curve downward at the front. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 10:52 pm:

Jim ,I can only hope that one day my coupe will look half as good as yours does. I knew mine was either a 26 or 27 and it is nearly complete, just missing the seats.Needs lots of work tho!
Thanks Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 11:29 pm:

Thank you Marvin. When I bought it complete in 1970 at the age of 16, for my life savings of $600.00, it was in awful shape. Totally covered in rust, Rusted out all across the bottom of the doors and body panels, covered in dents, both large and small, with several tears in the fenders, bullet holes in the sides, no roof, no wood, no glass, flat rotten tires, no upholstery, rotten floor, etc. As bad as it was when I went over to Tampa to see it, it was love at first sight. It took all the money I made bagging groceries at the local supermarket and all of my spare time, for the next two years to do a complete body off restoration, but I finished it in October 1972, just weeks before leaving to join the Marines. Back then, there was no forum, so I used the green (now black) Model T Service Manual, The Model T Ford bulletin Essentials, and the red soft cover Model T restoration guide. I learned a lot in those two years about myself and the Model T. Good luck. It is a lot of fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 01:43 am:

THAT is a fabulous Coupe Jim ....... :-)
Wood spoke wheels really set off a T........of course that nice, shiny, nickel isn't hurting things either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 02:25 am:

Marv, the date of your car is Tuesday, January 12, 1926; your engine date is Friday, May 15, 1925. I gather "matching numbers" are a big deal with muscle cars. With T's, not so much. After eighty-plus years, engine swaps are very common.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 09:09 am:

Jim your 26 looks super nice. I also like that you have the Ford radiator script on straight! To me it looks better straight across than at an angle. Many restored T's have the script at an angle and that's OK for those folks.
To each his own I guess but it does look nicer that way. My very humble opinion of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 10:10 am:

Here is the car i have to start with
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 12:38 pm:

Better check your tire pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 12:42 pm:

Marv,
WOW!! Where do y'all find these great "untouched" cars?? Although my Barney is pretty good shape survivor, he doesn't have as much paint surviving as yours. Though I can see you too, have some problems on the back end.
OH, you might need a new spare tire. . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Cuenca Ecuador on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 01:22 pm:

Looks like a real good car to start with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 01:23 pm:

I think they make a blue pill for that flat tire. LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Skip Anderson on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 06:54 pm:

Marv,
Great looking car! Lots of potential there.
We need a few more '26 coupes in the Aitkin area.
Good find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 10:00 pm:

WOW Marv! You shouldn't have bit of trouble making that into a show car if you choose, but it is beautiful in the shape it's in. I'd venture to say that a little rubbing compound to exchange the dull oxidation for a bright shine and a little wax and you are ready to go...after exchanging the Model A sun visor for a T sun visor, putting on a new roof, new tires and doing what you need to mechanically to get her roadworthy. Fantastic T! Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 04:39 am:

You've got a great start there, Marvin. Do what you have to do to make it roadworthy and remember, they're only 'original' once, so don't get in a big hurry to try make it 'brand new', a (poor but honest) 'survivor' like that will draw a bigger crowd. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 07:29 am:

Marv, I don't think Dennis means "poor" as in, inferior, as it is a superior original condition Model T with a solid body and possibly original paint. Bruce Mccalley told me that 1926 coupes came from the factory in Channel Green but some early 1926 T's, like mine, which was made in March 1926, came off the assembly line in black during the changeover from black to Channel Green, when Ford still had alot of black paint they needed to use up. I'd like to see more pictures of the interior dash, seats, upholstery and both sides of the engine. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 08:11 am:

I love the survivor look :-)
The screwed on rust repair patch panel in the lower rear trunk area is a nice period touch that suggests it was repainted at some time, perhaps a few years before it was retired in 1949?

If you like restored like new with perfect paint better, then your best option would likely be to just get this beauty running, selling it - then buying a glossy painted restored coupe for not so much more, likely $$thousands$$ cheaper than what a full restoration of this car would cost you.

There are a quite lot of coupes out there - but not so many left looking untouched straight out of the 30's/40's, so it would be nice if this one could be "saved" as a survivor :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 11:11 pm:

I had a bit of time tonite after work so i took a few pics .Carb side of engine
Other side
Fan adjuster
Aux trans right sideLeft sideRadiator shroud damageI have more but will post later.I think the steering colume is wrong.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 11:37 pm:

"Marv, I don't think Dennis means "poor" as in, inferior..."
You're right Jim. I'm not referring to the car's condition. "Poor but honest" means 'low on money but high on character'. :-)
Marvin, you have some work ahead of you. Somebody has 'gutted' the wiring, it's got a lot of accessories on it (water pump, auxiliary transmission). I don't know what kind of carb and manifold that is?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 11:56 pm:

I've never seen that linkage above the water pump. What does it operate?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:09 am:

"Foot feed"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:17 am:

Also, on the other side of the engine, is that some sort of home made, or aftermarket linkage for the spark advance? All things considered ( strange carburetor, V-belt, strange spark and throttle linkage), it almost looks like maybe someone installed some kind of Model "T" stationary or industrial engine in this car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:21 am:

We'd sure like to see the interior of the car, the controls, dash, etc. It seems to have a lot of unique, interesting features I've never seen on a T. I would speculate that the linkage on the driver's side of the engine above the water pump is for controlling the timer. Why, I don't know. I'd be interested in seeing what it is connected to inside the cab. One thing for sure. You're going to get your hands dirty and love every minute of it.

Be sure to keep plenty of ziplock bags into which to put the bolts and label their location with a sharpie marker. Also, take plenty of pictures of the bolts location and put it in the bag with the bolts and parts, for if you take as long as me to restore your car (2 years), there is no way you will remember what goes where without notes. LOL! Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:23 am:

Strange exhaust manifold too; outlet for exhaust straight down from bottom center of manifold?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:27 am:

Marvin - I should add something here; I'm not "knocking" your car,.....I think it's a great find and a good start for a nice car,....it's just that it has a Model "T" engine with some very strange (to me anyway) accessories on it. Thanks for posting the great pictures,........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:40 am:

Steve - Sorry, I was confused. I guess you initially pointed out the same strange linkage I was talking about. I thought you meant the linkage going to the carburetor. Every time I study the photos further, I see more! I know there were dozens and dozens of accessory water pumps, however, that water pump is not what we usually see either. That's another thing that makes me think this engine was an industrial engine or something. Or was used for some odd purpose other than automotive, before it was installed in this car. Interesting for sure,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 01:09 am:

Looks like a Rube Goldberg job welding the carb into the intake, very strange setup kinda like Franken-carb!

As far as the linkages go the photos are to incomplete to make any meaningful comment and are not something in the way of an accessory I can remember seeing.
Some more photos taken specifically to show all aspects of the linkage would help. A pictures worth a sack full of words!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 03:13 am:

Marvin,

I think you are correct regarding the steering column. It appears to be for the earlier T's. The 1926-27 has a square firewall to steering column mount. Regards, John

Closeup of your column


1926 - 27 Column


1926 -27 inside view.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 03:34 am:

No doctors coupe, this one - obviously it has been a tinkerer's coupe :-)
The ways these cars were tinkered with to keep on tickin for 20- 30 years with just parts from the local wrecking yard fascinates me.. a good cleaning, checking up of vital systems and new cables should make it run again :-)

The intake/exhaust combo looks like it's from a Kingston B1 Gasifier, a bit more rare than the standard vaporiser for 1927. The Kingston intake allows you to mount a regular carb without any adaptor - so I don't think the carb is welded, just dirty and rusty.

kingston gasifier
Picture by Mike Robison

I it's a 1925 steering column you may already have 5:1 steering you should have with 21" tires - then it's not urgently needed to change out the column, just make a bracket for the firewall so the lower two fastening screws can be used :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 04:53 am:

Should be "If it's a 1925"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 05:47 am:

Marvin, do this first. Clean up the rectangular area just above the 2 water pump attaching bolts. That's where the engine number is.

Post it here and we can tell you exactly (month, day and year) when that engine was built.
Then clean up the top of the right side frame near the emergency brake cross shaft and try to find the frame number.

Don't get real aggressive doing this with a wire wheel in a drill or anything like that. These numbers aren't stamped very deeply. As rusty as the frame on your car appears to be, you might want to start with a putty knife or a gasket scraper to get the big stuff off, then block sand the frame rail with progressively finer sandpaper only until it's smooth. Then coat the whole area with black Magic Marker and block sand it again with the with the finest sandpaper you have. The Magic Marker will soak into the rust in the numbers and make them more visible.
There's a wealth of information on this forum and once we know exactly what you're dealing with, we can be more help to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 05:52 am:

Just noticed you already have the frame number in your first post. Do you have a title with that number on it. If by chance you do, it's going to save you a whole lot of grief down the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 06:15 am:

Marv,

What a great "time capsule" from 1949 (according to the license plate?). As others have recommended, take lots of photos.

As you look over the car, look for clues of what may have been changed out when. From the photos so far, it looks like the Ford engine & transmission assembly and the auxiliary transmission have been together for years for that much dirt and oil to be nicely sealed on them.

I did find one advertisement for an auxiliary transmission called the "Challenge Transmission." It was designed to eliminate the Ford bands but I cannot tell from the wording if it added a different clutch or used the original Ford clutch. But the shape of the transmission in your photo is different from the one in the advertisement illustration [page 39 John Kenealy’s “Model T Ford Authentic Accessories”] so it is probably not the same transmission that is in your car. I suspect your coupe was probably driven like it was -- single pedal and all. Rationale -- while it is relatively easy to swap out an engine assembly with the Ford transmission attached, the dirt & oil between the Ford transmission and the auxiliary transmission appears not to have been disturbed in a long time. And I don't think they would have been able to swap out the entire engine/Ford Transmission/aux transmission without taking the aux transmission loose from the Ford transmission. Additionally -- the aux transmission requires the original Ford drive shaft to be modified/shortened along with the rear radius rods. I suspect you will find the dirt and oil will also look undisturbed on the bolts holding the driveshaft to the back of the aux transmission.

Again, welcome to the hobby!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 09:42 am:

Marvin, as others have asked, please take a picture of the steering wheel, foot and lever controls. Very interested in seeing how the car was controlled.

Steve, I think that linkage above the water pump is actually for the commutator. It looks like a foot-feed for the gas and some sort of lever relocation for the timer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:34 am:

It's an excellent project. Go for it.

I note the interest in the water pump, but whatever it is, it will have to come off!
My '26 Coupe came with one, and I wasted a lot of time fitting new seals, only to discover that it's worse than not necessary.

Can we know more about the auxiliary gearbox buried under all that mud, please?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:40 am:

I will get more pics soon.The column levers are not used.There is a rod through the dash with a small lever hooked to the linkage on left side of engine.The motor has been in there for a long time.The aux trans looks to have reverse.Won't know till I get the lever loose.There is some kind of a support that goes from rear motor mount to rear motor mount.It goes under the pan and has two bolts each side of the drain plug.there are a couple other odd things I will take pics of too.
Basically there is no interior in the car.Any panels inside are galvanized tin painted black.I have no seats just the base.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:57 am:

Shut up and read and you'll learn some thing. That Kingston set-up is new to me. Never saw one before. Assuming Roger's is correct and Marvin's has been "modified"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 01:35 pm:

From what I can see, it looks like at some time the original Kingston Gasifier updraft carb. took a dump. Someone replaced it with a pre-'25 Holley side draft by eliminating the Kingston 90 deg. elbow and also placing a tin heat shield that clamps to the float bowl on the Holley.

You can see the carb. mounting bolt heads just behind the heat shield. It also has a pre-'25 sediment bowl mounted on the firewall fuel tank outlet pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 05:06 pm:

I can't tell for sure through all the mud and grease, however that looks like an early to mid '20s Chevrolet transmission. They had a U-joint and ball arrangement very close in size and fit to a model T Ford. They can easily be adapted into a T drive-line.
The car looks like a very good candidate for either restoration or preservation. Both options have their advantages. As others have said, they are "original only once". I will add that there are, sadly, too few unrestored originals left to be seen. Once restored, they can always be restored again, but they can never be original again. Arguments can be made to restore because of the tinkering and changes, or that it should be preserved to show some of the special things that used to be done to model Ts. Yours could be special. I cannot tell for sure from the photos so far. It could have been for a handicap of some sort. Or not.
In the end. It is your car. Do what you think is best.
And welcome to the affliction!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 09:33 pm:

Affliction is right! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 10:55 pm:

I took a pic of the spark controlThese are on the lower end of the spring perch boltsI think the roof ribs are in upside downCarb mountinghCalender was in the light reflector box


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marvin turner on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:34 pm:

Under housing brace,aux trans mounting Gear on front wheel
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 04:07 am:

Wonder what the accessory clamp on the wishbone front end does?
Odd finding the wishbone ball disconnected? Could it have been pulled out of its socket by pulling the car from the front axle?
Looks like it was rode hard and put away wet, lots of cleaning to do :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 06:10 am:

That thing going under the transmission was once your emergency brake cross bar.
You have your hands full Marvin. Somebody has gone to a great deal of trouble to 'modify' the holy krap out of this car.
No problem, it's still a great find and there's a whole bunch of guys here that will help you get through it.
I do strongly suggest that you get hold of the nearest Model T club though. You're going to need some 'hands-on' help with this thing.


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