Transmission Band Adhesive

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Transmission Band Adhesive
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 08:42 pm:

Another post about riveting transmission bands got me to thinking about alternatives.

Has anyone to attach the linings to the bands with an adhesive ?

I did a search but couldn't find much on the subject. I keep thinking about all those glued on brake linings!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 11:09 pm:

Wood linings might be bondable. I question whether a woven lining would work well with an adhesive. A heat cured epoxy that was good to about 350-400F might make a good adhesive.

Beating Royce to the punch, I would add why bother, rivets work and they are pretty simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 02:09 am:

Many years ago Reid Welch was touting grey RTV for band adhesion. He used adhesives on lots of parts in his model T Coupe. I seem to remember him tightening spokes with epoxy and remaking brake drum lugs with J.B. Weld.

So I tried his trick and cemented a wooden lining onto a 1926-27 brake band. I clamped the lining to the band by using the drum I usually used as a mandrel in riveting my linings and let it set for 24 hours. Then I installed the band and replaced the hogshead.

The lining sheared off of the band leaving grey rubber on the band and the lining... on the first application of the brake.

It might have worked with some other adhesive... it has to be a material which can flex and withstand hot oil while maintaining a high shear strength.

So I am currently of the opinion that adhering linings to bands is a fine thing to do as long as you still have a good riveting job to take up 100% of the work. It really would be a good thing to do if you have someone who wants to help and doesn't know how to do any of the work..."here Mikey, paint this stuff on the band... that'll be a BIG help to me. When you're done just scrape up the excess and put it back into the tube for next time!" Or maybe you can just have Mikey rotate all the air in the tires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 09:10 am:

OK I get the idea, probably not gonna work.

Thanks for the input though. Maybe I can get Mikey to try it on his T if I think of a good adhesive.

Still, those modern bonded brake linings can get pretty hot too .... but no oil to contend with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 09:15 am:

Does any one know exactly what adhesive is used on brake linings? It's not something that's done in the back yard garage so I'm wondering if heat or pressure is part of the bonding process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philippe BROST, France on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 04:42 pm:

The adhesive used for brake linings is heated in an oven up to 200 Celsius. The linings have not to be strongly pressed just adjusted with some clips. Some vendors are selling the linings in all size with the adhesive and you can do it in your kitchen oven. I have done it for several cars and also for a band brake. It works ! I don't know the name of the adhesive, it is liquid and red.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 06:21 pm:

What's wrong with rivets? Personally I feel experimenting with your brakes is a bad idea.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 10:39 pm:

A number of years ago I had a Curved Dash Oldsmobile and the editor of the newsletter (Gary Hoonsbeen) recommended using two part epoxy to hold the brake and clutch linings to the bands. The application is very similar to the Model T except the CDO load is much less and it does not run in an oil bath. The kit he suggested used epoxy from a local Minneapolis supplier. I used the epoxy glued bands for over a decade without any problems.
The brake lining on modern cars are not riveted and they appear to hold up great. What is so difficult about the Model T application?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 01:05 am:

The External brakes on my speedster have bonded linings.

They were in poor condition so I purchased new Rocky Mountain lining.

I took them to a brake specialist who does a lot of the veteran club movement work here. He asked me to check on the actual name and number of the lining which I was able to get from Chaffin's who I got the material from

He needed to know as only certain materials are suitable for the bonding process. The linings are placed into special jigs to allow pressure to be applied while they are heated. The Rocky Mountains ones were OK but I looked like I might have wasted my money for a while there.

In oil you would have a problem, and I'm sure failure would be on the cards for most linings normally used in the transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 03:22 am:

Think there was someone who had bonded linings of the modern brake kind on his transmission linings. Posted about it not that long ago. Might have been an auzzi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 05:30 am:

Peter,
You will probably remember about 20 years ago the Bent Wire magazine were advertising a Victorian Firm that did bonded and riveted linings for Model T's. I am still running those bonded linings on our Fordor.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 06:11 am:

Another difference between modern brakes and a model t band is that modern brake shoes (and pads) are rigid, not flexible like a T band. Not to say it cant be done. Just another issue that must be considered. Rivets work just fine for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 07:06 am:

The door hinges on my 2003 GMC Envoy were actually glued to the metal frame.

A body tech friend with a Harley Davidson motor cycle saw a motorcycle on display that was totally assembled with modern adhesives and no welded parts.

The only problem with repairs in either case is that there are no solvents for the adhesive and it has to be ground off, if a vehicle is in an accident.

The glue material comes in a tube that goes in a gun, but it is not recommended for anything that might have to come unglued.

Removing that material from a used transmission band with a grinder would be very difficult, due to the curved shape and thin metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 08:10 am:

Bud. Interesting thought.

I did a search on brake adhesive and found a bunch of alternatives.
Bonding temperatures varied from 150 C to 200 C with a longer time at 150 C. The oil bath issue would require a bit of research, but I would never say no


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 10:24 am:

The lockup converters in modern cars use a friction material that is heated and the "glue" bonds to the metal. It is in oil and the plate flex,s to engage. All the torque converter rebuilders do this. Scott


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