My 1918 Coupelet look different than others. Why?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: My 1918 Coupelet look different than others. Why?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 03:09 pm:

I have now seen that my rear roof of my Coupelet unlike others I have studied.
It looks to me as Centre Door roof.
Mine is a very early. According to what I and Bruce Mc Calley studied.
So moved the gas tank to the turtle deck September 10, 1917, my was put together on Sept. 22, 1917.
Prior to that date had Coupelet higher roof to the gas tank was mounted under the seat. Therefore, it needed a higher roof, a so-called "rounded top"
Can my be an intermediate model .... or?
Hope you understand my English translations.
Therefore, I draw and tell my question.
Rear steel roof has the same patina as the lower part, does not seem to be replaced.
Would be interesting to know what you are knowledgeable on the forum is for opinions.
Thanks in advance Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 03:38 pm:

One for me typically Coupelet roof


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 05:00 pm:

Ake - Your English is very, very good! Many of us who were born and raised here, and only know one language make more serious mistakes in our "American English" than you do. I envy anyone that is fluent in more than one language!.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 05:05 pm:

......I should have said "envy and admire"......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 05:15 pm:

A person who can speak two languages is called bilingual. A person who can barely handle one is called an American.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 05:58 pm:

^ Sadly that is entirely too true....... :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 06:49 pm:

Looks like someone cut the top down and made a chicken coupe out of it. :-) You can see the metal wrinkled along the back. This is from folding the metal in to lessen the radius in the back. The original had a larger radius and higher roof. There's also some suspect cut lines in the wood along the side.

The early 18s would have the entire top and rear covered down to the beltline. Later 18s had the padded top just down to your dashed-line mark.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 06:59 pm:

This is an early 18 Couplet roof.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:12 pm:

Here is a link that may be helpful. Regards, John

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/86854.html



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:23 pm:

It's a 1917, not 1918.

That's my photograph - I took it years ago and posted it on the forum in 2009.

That's a 1917 coupelet of the second style, padded, non-folding top (although it is possible that particular body spilled into the 1918 model year, i.e. on or after August 1, 1917). Gas tank is still under the seat.

The earlier '17 coupelets had a folding top like 1915 and 1916.

Ake: the late Dwight Madsen in Minneapolis had a complete 1918 coupelet with a known history. There are pictures of it in a past issue of Vintage Ford and it was also included in the book "From Here to Obscurity" by Bruce McCalley.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:25 pm:

I was typing when John Page posted.

My photograph is in Ken Kopsky's post, not John Page's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 07:31 pm:

Are we going to have the calendar year/model year argument again? :-)

September of 1917 IS a 1918 model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 08:31 pm:

Clarification:

"It's a 1917, not 1918" in my original post refers to the photograph that I took with my own hands and 35mm camera years ago and subsequently scanned and posted on the forum in 2009.

I was not referring to Ake's 1918 coupelet.

This is my photograph:

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 09:38 pm:

I was just using it as an example of the roof radius. It's clear (to me) that the roof on Ake's Couplet has been modified. I didn't say your car was an 18.

The production continued into 1918, for crying out loud. That's already been established. The later 1918s had the flat roof. The early 1917s didn't look like yours either. They continued the folding top from 1916. There's many crossover years in the Model T lineage.

Don't get your shorts in a wad just because I used your picture as an example. If you don't want them copied, don't post them to a public forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:01 pm:

Nobody's shorts are in a wad.

My impression from your posts is that you are inferring that Ake's body was originally the non-folding padded to the belt-line top carried over from the 1917 model year but sometime during it's history the top was modified.

I don't believe that to be true. I don't believe Ake's car is or ever was the padded top variety or had the round radius or higher roof-line. The car is just a victim of an amateur restoration prior to Ake obtaining it.

Here is the reason:

The 1917 padded top and 1918 flat top bodies have distinctly different molding detail along the belt line. See photos below: first photo is Ake's car, second is from the body parts catalog, third is an unrestored '18 body, fourth and fifth are '17s. Notice the distinct differences on doors and side window along the beltline. The molding is completely different.

1

5

4

2

3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:21 pm:

As an additional reference:

Below is a photo of Ake's car when he purchased it in 2003. According to his posts, the car was imported to Sweden from Chicago in 1986.

Not exactly a barn fresh, unrestored, unmolested antique car.

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 12:47 am:

Thanks for all the posts.
I will start by telling you that the car has not been renovated in Sweden earlier only by me.
I have studied all the photos and previous posts.
I was with and bid on ebay the gray 1917 padded top, although I wanted to buy Fred Houston's 1918 Coupelet on. I bid $ 11,700 on ebay.

Ken is the screws that someone has previously turned down the bent metal plate.
The holes are exactly equal dimensions between each other.

And the water bar is shorter and does not cut out, all parts have the same rust.
The standing behind the window trim is longer then higher.

This is what puzzles me.
Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 01:00 am:

Here I compare with my Center Door roof.
Center Door roof similar to mine, but has an oval window.
Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 01:20 am:

Here I compare with my Center Door roof.
Center Door roof similar to mine, but has an oval window.
Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 01:27 am:

Here I compare with my Center Door roof.
Center Door roof similar to mine, but has an oval window.
Ake

Here we see a very interesting Dodge 1917.
I think it also has removable pillar, anyone know?
Vlken body builders did this Dodge.
Ford and Dodge had cooperation up to 1917 .... or?

Which body builders did Coupelet?
And what body builders did Center Door.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 07:55 am:

Ake -- The Fisher Body Co. made all the Coupelet bodies. I believe they also made some of the Sedan bodies and Beaudette made some. Others may know more about that.

The Dodge certainly has a sleek body style. It's like a Centerdoor Sedan with removable pillars. In about 1914, the Dodge Brothers split with Henry and began producing their own cars. They could have used Fisher bodies; I don't know about that. But there are enough similar details in that Dodge body and the later Coupelets that they could have been made by the same company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Ostergren on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:28 pm:

Erik, Thanks for posting the old picture of the '17 coupelet. The 3/4 rear view. This is the only the second period picture I have seen of one of these. The other is of my grandmother on her honeymoon in the driver's seat of her and Grandpa's T. I have it posted on the club's website under the old photos section. I am in possession of one of these Ts. I have the one that is featured in Bruce McCalley's book. The one in yours and Ken's pictures is in Harold Warp's Pioneer Village in Minden, NE. To my knowledge, this body style was available in the Spring to early Summer of '17. I have a Ford sales catalogue/brochure dated 5/17/17 that shows an artists rendition of this style. I am aware of the existence of 5 of these bodies. I find it interesting that with all the Ford factory/company photos that were taken, not one has surfaced of this particular body style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:41 pm:

Dodge pioneered use of the "all steel" body made by or conceived by Budd. Would this 1917 be an "all steel" body or would it have been wood framed?

As to Ake's coupelet, its likely the only one in Sweden so he should restore it as he see's fit and not be concerned about it "not being right".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Linsenbarth on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:48 pm:

I bet if you guys were not so old going to a Model T Club meeting would be like going to a Championship Wrestling Match in the 60's, only everyone would be dressed like old cowboys. HA!
Charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 12:01 am:

Charles,

May you live to be so old. I am really just a baby at 74, three of my Model Tuesday lunch bunch are in their nineties and motoring along quite well.

Ted


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:33 pm:

I've never seen a Coupelet with the convertible top. Are there any around, still alive?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:47 pm:

I believe there several of us on the board with the convertible version of the coupelet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Cuenca Ecuador on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 06:28 pm:

I believe our moderator, par excellent also has one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 10:28 pm:

There are a fair number of the brass couplets around. Chris B does have one of the nicest looking ones I have seen photos of. At least three other occasional posters on here have one including I think Philip Berg in south Califunny.
There was one in the Bay Area and Santa Clara Horseless Carriage Regional Groups some time ago. I don't know If it is still there or not.

Below, a rare sight. The brass center-door sedan I used to have, parked next to '15 couplet on a local tour.



I know at least one black radiator '17 does still exist. It was mentioned on this site in the past year or so.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 11:57 pm:

As Philip said, there are a few of us here who have convertible Coupelets. The early '17 ones probably are the most rare of the "drop-top" Coupelets. There are several of those known, but not a lot. There seem to be about 50 or so convertible Coupelets ('15--early '17) in existence today, maybe 60. The later 17's and the 18's also were called Coupelets, but their tops were fixed. They had glass windows in the doors, and the doors were similar to the '15--early '17 convertible ones, but with fixed tops. I have no idea how many of those are still around. Beginning with the 1919 model year, there was a substantial redesign, and they were called Coupes from then on. The '19 through the '23 Coupes were still pretty cute, though. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 12:18 am:

What high park lights sitting on Coupelet.
Just have her sit them lower like Centerdoor car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 04:00 pm:

They do look strange way up there, don't they? :-)


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