The Brake drum was shot, so we ordered one from J&M Machine, Oh, what a Beauty, in every way.
I started taking pictures today, and will add more as I progress, as if I wait, it will take a long time to get them all listed.
Pretty ho-hum until I saw your raised bed pressing blocks. Brilliant! I've been lugging around chunks of 3x4x13 solid. I like the idea of face to face channels. I may steal that one.
Ken - On close examination of Mr. Kohnke's beautiful photos, I think they are four angle irons rather than two face-to-face channels,......same idea tho' and as you say,....a great idea!
Nope! I'm wrong,.....they're channels! One is just turned 90 degrees from the other one is all,....my mistake,....sorry,....harold
Herm, The KR Wilson tool is a great thing for NOS drums but the drums that have been turned is a whole different story? I bought one for for the heck of it and I was surprised how accurate it was for a stock drum. I have played with it for turned drums and have found the lathe was a better deal then. What do you use when they are turned down? Thanks.
Joe,I always check the drums with expanding mandrels to see where the out sides are with the center, and that is with out bushings.
The first time I knew the center was right, as I check, and recheck, and found out with the mandrel, that the drum was sprung a little, and that is a waste of time, and bushings.
If the drum is sprung, which isn't too often, but happens, I pitch the drum.
The drums that the out sides were cut, or out of round with the center, they do go in a 4 Jaw, and get the bushing shaft with gear centered and bored to within a .001
Then they go in the Wilson jig and centered on the reamer taper, locked down, and the last .001 is reamed with the hole, and Jig.
The out side band area does not touch, or do you want it to.
I have had I think 3 re-rebuilds that I had to do this way, other wise, its normal.
Then the out side is trued again, and no I don't have to take off a 1/4 inch.
Herm, are those the original reamers? What do you do when they get worn out?
I have almost 3 sets. Two sets were were N.O.S..
So far I have used both sets, and sharpened both sets once when it gets time.
Counting just transmissions, I should have done about 350 to 400.
I don't use them dry, as I use cutting oil on the bushings.
You have to check the reamer under a big Mag. Glass, to see if there is any reflection of light of the edge that cuts. If there is, that's the time to sharpen, or you can ruin the reamer.
When you sharpen a reamer, they only sharpen the taper part, if they have to sharpen the side, they some times can do it once, a very little, or the hole size gets smaller.
While they would still bore straight, you would have to finish with a hone, or a different reamer of some kind.
This is a Jig I made, to align Ream the Tail shaft bushing, as out of Ford Service.
Align Reaming Tail Shaft Bushing, OK Paul?
Triple Gear Reamer, Ken, wake up, Wilson Benches coming. First one is a starter and Gen. table, I have Two.
Showing Reamer Finish.
Parts Ready to Machine
I don't know how much you are taking off the drums, that low drum especially. Low drums are so thin to begin with I think it would be better to polish the existing surface and keep as much metal as you can.
Your attention to detail and your CLEAN work area are an inspiration!
You have more tools than "Harbor Freight"
I enjoy following your work!
Keep up the effort!
Great work Herm, as always!
Love the detailed pictures!
Can hardly wait for the next series..
Thanks Herm. I made a couple of edits mainly to your post at 7:51. You had the comments buried in the picture post, can you check them.
I don't know how much you are taking off the drums, that low drum especially. Low drums are so thin to begin with I think it would be better to polish the existing surface and keep as much metal as you can."END QUOTE
The first one was .018 thousandths.
The second one, .011-50 to .012.
I would have taken more if needed.
To just polish a pitted, wore, and warped drum O.D. is not rebuilding.
High and low spots on drums give bad band surface. It seamed important enough when they were new.
If all it takes is a few missing thousandths to blow a drum, better get a Model A, Right Dan.
I have always turned the drums, and would never put a Transmission together with out it.
I am sorry Ted that your experience with all your thin low drums that you cut the O.D.'s on, blew up on you, that IS from all your experience isn't it?
Thanks Herm. I made a couple of edits mainly to your post at 7:51. You had the comments buried in the picture post, can you check them. "END QUOTE"
Thanks Chris, I was wondering where those Puppies went.
I stand by my opinion.
You show us How it should be done.
Pictures Showing Dial points
Showing center Point that was making the shaft off center, I cleaned it up, and it centered
Hose clamp to hold the fingers back
Centering brake drum in 4 Jaw
Brake drum, Tail Shaft, and also Main shaft now in perfect Alginment
Chris, I don't see any thing to make sure the captions come out?
I for got to say we only put in one of the two Brake Drum bushing, and that is on the Gear end.
Herm, the captions are supposed to show up when you hold the mouse over the picture. It works on Internet Explorer but not on Chrome. I use mostly Chrome, I find it is faster. I don't use the captions field, I would rather put the comments in between the pics so you see them all the time.
Yes, I like that also, Herm.
This should be an article in the Vintage.
Is there a way to save this?
Herm, Why do you use only one bushing on the brake drum??
Nice work on the bushing replacement Herm but no way I would machine those beautiful drums to make them shiny. I didn't see any defects other than perhaps some tiny pits, perhaps those were surface casting defect spots? Those little spots wouldn't affect anything.
Yes, they were rust pitted, and the drums are just about always not true from band wear.
Trueing them makes them round to the center, and a 100% band contact.
To me, with out Trueing the drums would be like putting on New brake shoes, and not true the drums, that makes every thing New again.
The only drum I didn't turn was J&M Machines New brake drum, as it dialed Zero.
Herm, Why do you use only one bushing on the brake drum?? "END QUOTE"
I leave them out because they are not needed. Ford left them out in late 1925, and later.
The only way the oil gets into the Brake Drum bushings is the hole in the Drum shaft, or what can get in the ends of the bushings.
With the inside bushing left out, that whole cavity from the Driven Gear, to the Drive Plate bushing is oiled, and acts as an oil well.
It is also harder to Align 3 bearings, rather than two.
With 2 Bearings you can bore them separate, as long as they are straight with the housings, but with 3 or more, they have to be align Bored, or align reamed.
Herm, do you balance the drums?
How is the balance on the new J&M drum?
Herm, would you mind if we made this into an article and put it in the Vintage Ford?
Herm, do you balance the drums?
How is the balance on the new J&M drum? "END QUOTE"
We have the drums Balanced if the owner wants it.
But we always balance the Flywheel.
We have had only one Balanced from J&M Machine. It was off a little, but so are the Originals, and a lot more. They sure have the Originals beat by far. I don't think you could cast a piece like that and get any kind of balance.
Every thing is balanced from the wheels on out modern car to air craft parts.
Herm, would you mind if we made this into an article and put it in the Vintage Ford? "END QUOTE"
I don't think there is any thing most people would want to look at, but Knock your self out.
Got the Triple Gear pins in the mail today, and have to polish out .000-50 thousandths on the bearing part of the pin.
I will have to take .001 thousandths off the part that press's into the flywheel.
That will leave a .003 thousandths press on the pins, and a .003 clearance on the Gear Bushing.
Polishing Triple Gear Pins to size.
Herm, do you always replace all the bushings or just the worn out ones? I have heard several times that replacing the bushings makes for a noisy transmission but, I would think as long as everything was done right there would be no problem.
Herm, do you always replace all the bushings or just the worn out ones? I have heard several times that replacing the bushings makes for a noisy transmission but, I would think as long as everything was done right there would be no problem."END QUOTE"
I have never taken a Transmission apart, that was good enough to just clean up, and put back together, for my own, or a customer.
The transmissions will run wore out, if not to bad, as will the rest of the motor.
The problem comes in when the bushings wear to much, and then start taking out the gears on a drum, or triple gear that could have been saved.
If the triple gears are left go to long, with .004 thousandths, on up, and as all triple gear pressure is to the outside, the gear will run tipped on the shaft, and the teeth will eat into the flywheel, and ruin the gear surface, and or the flywheel.
As far as the noise, I have never heard one any different then another, outside of the ones that need fixed.
If you have grinding, scraping, knocking, ect., something was over looked.
Many transmissions are left with the old triple gear pins. A typical triple gear pin is .002 thousandths out of round, and it is always on the high pressure side on the gear. So, if you fit the new bushing with .003 to the largest diameter, with wear of .002 at its lowest, now the clearance is .005, and the triple gear has no choice, but to run cocked.
So, when the triple gear runs cocked, it will tear up the teeth on the driven gear, and the drums.
The last thing, when I get time, I will take some Mic readings on my N.O.S. drums and triple gears, as they are factory reamed, and that should put to rest the difference of opinion on what the clearances should be, as these will be Ford factory Spec's.
Great post Herm!
The transmission I am currently running was machined mostly in the same manner as you detail. It was a time consuming process to go through but worth the effort in the end. All bushings were changed and all 3 drums were skimmed on the outside just enough to true the surface for the same reason you stated. I found that it took anywhere from .008 to .018 to achieve a true surface matching the gear or shaft. If more I would have used a different drum. I also balanced the drums and match weighted the triple gears.
I will borrow a couple of your ideas to on my next project.
This is a great post........... Thanks!
What is the title, and who is the author, of the book you have shown in several of your posts? Do you know where I could obtain a copy?
Thanks again, and I always enjoy your posts.
Help your self Charlie.
The book is the Model T Service Manual.
Original copies and used reprints are available through eBay and used book sellers on sites such as Amazon.com or Abebooks.com.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=model+t+ford+service+book&_osacat=0&_from=R 40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xmodel+t+ford+service+manual&_nkw=model+ t+ford+service+manual&_sacat=0
New reprints are readily available from vendors such as Lang's:
Sorry Charlie, I read your post again, and the two pictures that are above are out of the Ford Service Bulletin Essentials.
Any parts house should have them.
Herm and Erik,
Thanks for the information and Erik, thanks for the links. I'm going to order a copy for my library.
The 1.560 is how far back I cut the tail shaft for the Ball cap, no matter if it is ball bearing, or babbitt. This motor will get babbitt.
I will polish out the tail shaft tomorrow, and cut the ball cap.
By the way, that clamp and switch is my automatic shut off switch.
Polished, before polishing
Can still see the lines after the 1500 grit, but can't with the finger nail.
Aligning the ball cap at the only place that comes close to the center every time.
Ruffed out babbitt at high speed, .020 left to go.
If you want something that gets right to the 1/10 of a thousandths every time, these are what will do it. They are call inside Mic's, or also Post Mic's.
Putting in the oil groove.
Made for pressing out the pins, but normally I just take a big hammer and knock them out.
I use a dead blow to tap them in}
I oil the pins. I use a dead blow to tap them in.
I use 1/2 of a Model T wrist pin to push the pin to level.
I use 1/4 inch coarse X 2" bolts and tap the flywheel.
My boy made this to use flywheels on.
It goes up, down, and turns so you can work on the Magnets, or what I am doing.
I hold a big hammer under the bolt to take the stress of the threads when peening.
Small taps, no big hits.
Oil the inside of the gear and shaft
Herm, your pictures are making me excited to get my 26 coupe back together.
A couple of things here.
After you press on the driven gear, it just about always makes the brake drum bushing go smaller, and from the two keys pushing in on the bushing that you should always run the reamer through again to size the hole where it was.
The other thing is the clutch spring pin should be cleaned up so the pin can be placed by hand, instead of having to pound it in.
More Pictures, Band Building
We media blast, "Black Diamond", no dirt, make sure there is nothing caught under the end that is riveted on. clean, clean, clean.
As they come out of the box.
I mark an inch.
I use a metal shears to cut the 1 inch off.
What I use to seal the ends from raveling, way better then what was on them out of the box.
I spray on a slick paper, so it don't soak in so fast, or wax paper.
3 Pieces cut in 1/2.
This is two coats.
K.R. Wilson rivet machine.
Check to make sure bands match drums.
Rivet seated on the inside.
The ends of the bands out further then the band ears, so they don't gouge the drum surface.
Thanks for posting Herm!
This has been a great post! Enjoyed it all so far!
Nice to see the different machine tools and other goodies others like yourself are using!
The pictorial progression is very well presented!
Chris, I don't know what I am doing wrong, but the picture captions are just not coming out?
I just Wonder:
Why do you cut the band lining in half and are you leaving a gap in the middle of the lining? Is this for a better cooling and oiling of the bands??
What is the red stuff you add on the bands at each end??
This real a great writing and should be saved in a manuel.
I read about the band lining method in a Dykes automotive book when I was a kid. It made sense, so I have always done it that way.
It leaves a one inch gap at the bottom for oiling.
With out the stiffness in that missing band area, the band is left to be able to flex more so all the band will contact at all the band, not just some areas.
The bands as they come out of the box do not have enough goop on some ends to keep them from raveling.
There is already a picture of this, but this is red electrical insulation paint which I get at an electric motor shop.
Herm, do you ever install wood linings? Do you see any benefits to cutting them like you do kevelar?
For your answer on my question about the space in the lining.
Next question is the same as Stephen's.
Thanks again for this post on the forum. I rebuild a few transmission but with this post I am learning a lot and find solutions on a few problems I had before.
I don't know anything about wood linings except what is discuss on the forum here.
Impressive attention to detail!
I know Herm sometimes has a way with words....... ha ha .......but when I put Kevlar linings in my '27 Tudor I did it the Kohnke Way........and I'm glad I did!.......