Early 1911 Torpedo / Open Runabout square gas tank

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Early 1911 Torpedo / Open Runabout square gas tank
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 09:44 pm:

I am looking close at the factory catalog shot of the above mentioned models and the tank looks as though it has two caps on it -- one left and one right. Having never seen one in person, I have no other reference. I'd be interested in anyone knowledgeable commenting on what's showing there.

-Walter

Square tank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 11:16 pm:

Several years ago there was a car like that being auctioned off. I don't recall if it was ebay or one of the big auction companies. I think it was a live company though. Anyhow the car had a square tank like that. The car was described in the advertisment as having one of the few known early square tanks,ultra rare bla bla bla...
So I know there is one of them out there somewhere. You just need to find it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 12:32 am:

The earliest tanks were "square" but the above picture looks like a typical artists conception of the car and not a picture of an actual early 1911 torpedo which would explain the 2 gas caps. Note that the pan is 1910 style. These early bodies were made of wood which is likely why not many survive. They were first listed in the invoices at the HFM in very late 1910 and much later than typical new 1911 cars which began on October 1, 1910. I know Bill Barth restored an early torpedo with a square tank. The threaded fitting on the square tank was made of brass as was the gas tank cap but the later tank was round. Early on the tank itself was fitted with brass threaded cap fitting but then changed to cast iron fitting and the gas cap was then lastly changed to cast iron and painted black. My open runabout has an original cast iron cap on it. It is a May 8, 1911 car. So many of the repro brass caps were made that most people are no aware that a brass cap would be incorrect for the typical 1911 torpedo and open runabout unless it also had a square tank and a wooden body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 07:53 am:

You are correct, that is only the typical artists conception. I've scoured the web and magazines to no avail with the hope of finding a photo of a square tank.

My interest in this is I'm trying to put together an Open Runabout, but cannot find a loose body laying around, even for patterns. If I can find one to dimension, I'd like to build a wood body and make a square tank to go with it. I figure if I'm going to all the trouble, I might as well go to a little more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 08:40 am:

Two ads from 1911 showing the square tank.

"The Washington Times" January 15, 1911:



"The San Francisco Call" April 30, 1911


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 06:00 pm:

Changed from rectangular to round listed in the catalogues on (US Date style) 01-04-11A. "Gasoline tank, Torpedo Runabout. Changed from rectangular to round."

01-04-11A; the 'A' suffix looks like a drawing amendment with date to me. Hope this helps...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 09:40 pm:

Jay from Northern California posted the photo below on Feb 8, 2011 sorry, I did not save the link.



And cropped and zoomed below:



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 09:57 pm:

Thanks to all -- every little bit helps!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 08:16 pm:

What is shown may be an artists conception but for the time it would be very rational thinking by Ford as he sold cars in RHD and LHD countries so it depend which side of the street the pump was on. The main question is any of you over 100 years old and can say it was not there or have any of you can honestly say I have seen a barn find and they did not have two?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 08:25 pm:

I have seen an original square tank and it only had one filler. I also have the factory drawing for the filler fitting and at that time the drawings stated the number of items/car so the drawing would have stated 2 if they used 2 of them. It may have had 2 of them on a prototype tank but it doesn't appear to be on the production drawings. I don't think the filler neck being on either side or both makes for any convenience versus a center filler position that is easily reachable from either side and even easier from the very back of the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 11:12 pm:

Is it known why they went from the square to the round tank? I'm guessing either easier to manufacture, better capacity, or some combination of the two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 12:19 am:

There is no documentation as to why they did it but I can tell you that a round or oval tank is going to keep the motor running until the last drop while a flat bottom tank can have gas in it and be out of gas on an incline unless the tank has a rather narrow bottom and is tall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kathy Evans on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 11:42 am:

Is this a 1911 Open Runabout? Thank you, Kathy1911 Open Runabout?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Woolf on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 12:00 pm:

Kathy,

That is a Packard Roadster, not a Model T.

Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 06:26 pm:

Here is another period photo of a Torpedo with the early tank.

Andrew




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 10:10 pm:

That's good insight on the tank design, John.

Andrew, thanks for the last photo. That's good inspiration for going forward with replicating the square tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 10:16 pm:

The square tank gives the torpedo an entirely different look. Thanks for the pics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 04:36 am:

Here's an early Open Runabout:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 04:42 am:

And some illustrations.

Ford Times V4 No5 rear cover:



Ford Times V4 No7 March 1911 cover:



Ford Times V4 No5:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 11:53 pm:

Andrew,

The photo with the two women is fantastic! As it's likely a square tanked car had a wood body, I'll be studying it closely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 04:36 pm:

I was just on the thread about the Model S Roadster and was discussing the amount of Model S's still around.
This made me think about the Torpedo Roadsters and the amount of them left. Does anyone have any idea about how many Original ones may be around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 06:46 pm:

Rare as rocking horse droppings in Australia. Many copies have been restored though...man, they really do look good. Here is the only original South Australian photo I have with one taken out near Farina.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 09:51 pm:

Does anybody know how the deck (where the gas tank sits) of a wood bodied car was constructed? I'm guessing it's tongue and groove boards with a veneer on top, sort of how firewalls were done. I'm thinking a wood bodied commercial roadster would be done in the same manner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 01:46 am:

Just found this photo and remembered this thread. Note the seam in the front wall of the tank.

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 12:20 pm:

These photos have renewed my interest in the 1911 open runabout and the torpedo. I have saved a correct steering column for one, a round 12 gallon gas tank, correct frame, a thin 12 rivet read end, correct front end, correct break lever unit, trans cover, radiator, windshield, coil box, head and other lights and other things. It would end up as a mid 1911. I could use one of the non starter blocks I have. I have always thought it would be fun to build one up. perhaps the open one. One always needs a "project" to keep one's interest in Ts.,, I will always keeps these parts as a unit in case I do not get the project finished,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 12:38 pm:

Darrel,
Roger Byrne has an open runabout and he has gone completely through it. He might be a good contact for technical information. If you are unable to find information contact for Roger (a poster on MTFCA on occasion), send an email and I'll dig up his contact info,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 12:40 pm:

Andrew's pic of the two ladies driving in the snow with those smooth tires got me to thinking.
That must have been something on snow and ice with bald tires. Sounds like fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 01:38 pm:

Rob. Thank you for the information. I am starting a file using the photos from this thread. I think I will also copy parts info from my early parts books. I have the Ford Times the color picture is from.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 02:10 pm:

Darel, I sent you an E-Mail . . good luck with your project. Here's my OpenRunabout before I had the carbide generator and "potato" horn installed.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 02:19 pm:

Rober,
Your car turned out great! Hope you've had a chance to drive it,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 02:41 pm:

The email address for me in the profile was out of date. It has now been corrected.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - 08:05 am:

That is an excellent photo, Andrew. Thank you for posting it. That probably shows more of the fine details clearly than anything I've seen yet. Particularly the gas tank.

Beautiful runabout, Roger. I've seen those photos in various places on the web and have studied them hard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - 10:26 am:

Roger -- I really like the nearly-black blue color of your car. Which paint/color is it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - 04:23 pm:

More photos and information
More T
TORP


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - 05:12 pm:

Mike, we have had several discussions on "Midnight Blue" paint. Here are links to one of them with the paint codes: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/277414.html?1332517099


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 12:17 am:

Here is a photo of my first Model T which I bought in in 1965. It had been rebuilt by a club member, sold upon his passing and the new owner was forced to sell it when his second wife refused to ride in it.

roadster

When I got married and we had our second child I sold the body and built the Town Car. The new owner was going to make a fire chiefs car but later sold it and after several years a club member purchased it and restored it back to health. The rear guards are fronts reversed.

Here it is with the Town Car
roadtown


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 02:03 am:

Peter,
Always glad to hear from you
Thanks for the 2 photos you just posted!
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren W. Mortensen on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 03:43 am:

If you can find a copy of the Sept.-Oct. 1989 issue of the Model T Times you'll find pictures of the '11 square-tank torpedo that Bill Barth restored, if I recall correctly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 10:34 am:

Roger -- Thanks for the link. I remember those discussions and made note of the paint codes at that time. I just didn't remember that it was you who posted them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 12:16 pm:

Peter, do you remember if the body you sold was all wood or steel skinned over wood framework?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 12:02 pm:

Another early square tank open roadster

1911


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 01:09 pm:

Great Photo Darel!
Notice a Good Cigar was only 5 cents back then

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 01:36 pm:

Excellent photo! Happy new customer, perhaps?

That dealership is still in business:

http://bbjtoday.com/blog/family-steers-diehl-ford-through-100-years/1597


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 06:10 pm:

It is from a book and the photo was provided by the Diehl family. They labeled the T a 1915 and said the lady was Mrs. Diehl.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 07:16 pm:

Walter, body was wood frame, steel on rear of seats and rear deck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 07:59 pm:

Here is a photograph of Rob Heyen's 1909 Touring parked next to a 1911 Torpedo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 08:51 pm:

The photo showing Diehl & Simpson Ford- is in Bellingham, WA. The building still stands and Diehl Ford is still in business and still family owned. I believe they're now the oldest Ford dealership in the US.


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