Chevrolet vs Model T prices today

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Chevrolet vs Model T prices today
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 02:10 am:

I wanted to hear how prices line up between early Chevrolet and Fords. If you had a 1916 Ford Touring how does that compare to a 1916 Chevrolet Touring? I am assuming the same condition (i.e. barn find to restored.)

In my experience a Dodge is harder to sell and sells for less than a comparable Model T and cost about twice as much to restore. Is that about the same for a Chevrolet?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 07:00 am:

Not sure about a 1916 Chevrolet. Those are pretty rare.

Chevrolet was a fairly insignificant brand prior to 1923 when the whole company nearly was cut by Generic Motors after their copper cooled fiasco. There's probably not enough pre - 1923 sales of Chevrolet cars to consider it a pattern, any more than you could capture 2013 sale prices of a 1923 Chalmers or a 1923 Oakland.

1924 - 35 Chevrolet cars had wood bodies that were known to have leaky roofs. Most sales were sedans, and most of them had their bodies rot away. While they were made in numbers near the same or more than Fords of those years you don't see many for sale. There are not many around. The bodies rotted and the cars were junked before WWWII.

Bottom line, yes, a typical Chevrolet of that era is harder to restore and harder to sell than a Model T, Model A, or early V8 because fewer people want a Chevy and fewer people have a Chevy.

Rarity does not equal value.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:05 am:

Looks to me, according to Wikipedia, that Chevrolet burst on the scene and did quite well from the start. They were the number one GM seller by 1918.

I think we need to remember that Ford's sales were "astronomical" and after those figures the industry was very competitive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:36 am:

Does not look insignificant to me. Chevrolet was already the 4th manufacturer by 1917. Very fun cars to drive too!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:54 am:

Matthew,
try to find a 1917-1923 Dodge Roadster that I can buy for less than the price of a 1917-1927 Ford Model T Roadster and I'll transfer a crisp $1,000 bill as a finder's fee into your PayPal account.

The only one for sale is currently on Hemmings, and the asking price is $25,900.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/dodge/brothers/1581509.html

What's slightly cheaper is a Dodge Touring car.

The rationale behind this is simple: Model T's are more user friendly as parts are easily available, hence they have a slight advantage in value. However, when it comes to a Roadster, the fact that there are only 18 of those still alive, compared to about thousand times as many Model T Roadsters, changes the game completely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 12:00 pm:

I have no idea as to what an old Chevrolet would sell for, but it seems that the ones made prior to the 1950's have not been in much demand for collectors cars. That doesn't mean that they were not good cars, it is just not popular. Similar to slant 6 Dodges and Plymouths. Both were very good dependable and economical cars, but only the V8 models seemed to click with the collectors. It's funny that way, isn't it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 12:32 pm:

Thanks for all your insight!

If I had to sum it up, there are more Ford T people out there making the prices more predictable. For Chevrolet the prices are less predictable. But if you find the rare make (i.e. Dodge Roadster) people will pay for it.

Is that about right?

Norman, my dad loved the slant sixs. He had a '75 Valiant. So my first car was a '72 Dodge Dart... My brother got a '73 Plymouth Duster... We sold them all in the last few years. All were running and people didn't want to pay much over $1000. I heard that there was a longer story of why the engine was so good. It was designed for aluminum, but didn't work as planned so they used the same design for cast iron...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 12:40 pm:


I saw this 1915 490 at Iola recently. I've seen pictures of the 490 for years, but this is the first one I ever saw in person. Chevrolet produced about 18,000 of these, compared with Ford's production about ten times that. But I'll bet today the ratio of survivors is a lot more like one 1915 490 to a hundred 1915 T's than one to ten. A car that didn't last, made from parts that didn't last, has to make for considerably more difficult restoration and maintenance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

Correct. Parts supply and support for a Model T are unmatched worldwide. That has a big impact on desirability and prices. If somebody has a car that's almost a century old, it's comforting to know that they can drive it all the way to Moscow and find help along the way. There's also support for Chevrolets and Dodges and Buicks, but it's nowhere near that for a Model A, let alone a Model T.

In addition, a Model T is unique. It doesn't compete with "other" cars of its era, pretty much like the Volkswagen Beetle did in the 1960s. Yes, you could get a car for slightly more money that was more comfortable than a Beetle, almost as dependable, but it was nowhere near as cool as a Beetle. The Model T, the Volkswagen Beetle, the 1957 Chevy and the (original) Mini are icons of the automotive world. Somebody who wants one of those, doesn't look for a slightly cheaper or slightly more expensive "alternative."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 01:58 pm:

Let's analyze further: the relationship of production numbers to actual units sold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 02:01 pm:

The 490 you show in the picture above is only the second one I've ever seen. I've seen only ONE in person, and actually driven it. I've never seen one at a show of any kind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 03:09 pm:

I have a '16 DB (not together yet) and I think you could easily build 2 model Ts with the metal that's in this one car!
They are as different as night and day--but an interesting comparison. (the DB has an electric starter too!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 03:26 pm:

This '16 competed against us in the 1998 Greatrace and a few others. He told me it had Ford wheels. The front wheel bearings are the same.



It was faster than our Speedster with high head and A crank, and stock rear with O/D. We went 35 up the hills, and 70 down the other side. A 10 tooth pinion and low head the next year helped a lot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 03:36 pm:

Steve,

It is my understanding that no more 1915 490s exist. The car in your picture (assuming it is a 1916 model) and the running gear, tires, brakes, etc. look as good as the picture. The top end price would be about $13,000-$15,000. If it is a true 1915 (late 1915) the price could be $18,000 to as much as $20,000. I would be interested in knowing what the VIN is or the dates on the block and cylinder head.

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 04:30 pm:

I know there is often a 1914 Chevy at the Old Car Festival.The hard to find Chevys are the 17 18 and 1919 V-8's! Im not shure if a 23 copper clad even exist? I have been told Pinky Randal of Houghton Lake,Mi had/has a engine but?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 05:02 pm:

The 490 in the picture belongs to Gerald Perschbacher, or at least he delivered the little talk about it, comparing the 1915 Chevrolets and Fords. I believe he said the 1915 and 1916 490 were the same, but I didn't ask him about the date of this particular car. There was a sign beside it that called it a 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 05:19 pm:

There's one with copper clad engine at the Natl Auto Museum in Reno. A local guy has brought his Chev V8 to HME a few times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:13 pm:

The Jul-Aug 2013 edition of The Horseless Carriage Gazette classifieds has a March 1916, 490 touring, missing seats and top for $4,900.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:44 pm:

Steve, Is gerald from St. Louis?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:46 pm:

Having worked on and driven a '20 Chevy Coupe I can say there is nothing inferior about them........material wise or otherwise.
But like every other auto manufacturer on the planet at the time.......NOBODY could beat Ford's pricing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 09:00 pm:

I wonder if this one ever got completed? It was at the Sandy Eggo swap in 2002.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 10:07 pm:

Herb, the answer is yes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 01:38 am:

Mike,

The car you speak of was sold and it went to Australia. It was not restored and was in need of the parts you spoke of. Parts for these cars can be extremely hard to find and command high prices when found. If you cannot find the parts they must be hand made. And if they need to be nickel plated then that much more.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 03:08 am:

Veteran Chevs are a very rare car in Australia, this 1915 turned up at an open day at our local museum. As for price, worth a fortune, like veteran T's, they don't come up for sale very often.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 11:57 am:

If any body needs them I have a front 490 axle w/ the 1/2 springs, another axle bare w/spindles I think, Hood in good shape also danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rex Pyles on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 09:25 pm:

this is on ebay......http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1915-CHEVROLET-490-TOURING-/200946081646?pt=US_Ca rs_Trucks&hash=item2ec951df6e


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rex Pyles on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 09:41 pm:

and I have pics of Then Henry Ford Museums 1923 Copper Coupe but I can't seem to upload them.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 09:52 pm:

Here's an old photo of one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 06:38 pm:

Here are a couple pics from Rex.

Chev1

Chev2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 07:36 pm:

Thank's for the pictures!!Great to see such rare car!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rex Pyles on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 08:36 pm:

and here's the DB Roadster somebody was wanting....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Super-Rare-1917-Dodge-Roadster-/190874771855?pt=U S_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c7105e18f


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 10:14 pm:

I had a "23" Chebby at one time. I was surprised at how "peppy" it was. I assume the overhead valves along with light weight made it seem quite fast. Fortunately, I came back "from the dark side".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 12:09 am:

Craig,

Thanks for the pictures. What an outstanding car! Very cool! The engine looks similar to a Franklin, another fascinating car.

Rob,

You sold the '23 Chevy with the yellow wheels (what an ugly color for wheels with a black body)?

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 07:17 am:

Willis,
Yes. It seemed like a good project at the time, but I lost interest quickly. How did you know? It went as a small part in trade for our 09 T.
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 07:36 am:

Rob,

What kind of engine was in it? A '24 Chevy? All the '23 engines were supposed to be recalled and very few exist.

The '24 - 28 Chevs were pretty good little cars. You would never know it today since there are a thousand Fords that exist for every Chev you see of that vintage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eddy Lee Emerson on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 09:04 am:

Why were the 23 engines recalled? I have an engine in a 490 chassis. The casting date of the engine is October 1923. Would this be considered a 23 engine or a 24? Also I am very curious about the photo posted by Rick on monday the 22nd. It resembles the factory built speedster that Monroe manufactured, that had an accessory pie wagon type body. Since Monroe Body Works built the early Chevrolet 490 bodies, did he also build a similar car for Chevrolet? Ed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 09:20 am:

Eddy,

The '23 copper air-cooled engines were the ones that were recalled and destroyed. Only a handful remain. The same 4 cylinder engine that was used in the 490s were used in the Chevrolet Superior model from '23-'27. 1928 was the last year that 4 cylinder was produced. On the Superior model, a vacuum tank was added and that ended the gravity feed for the carburetor. The intake manifold was also shortened with the addition of the vacuum tank. The fuel tank was moved to the back of the car.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 09:22 am:

Eddy,

The 1923 Chevrolet had a new "copper cooled" engine, so called because of the copper finned cylinder assemblies. As you can see by Rob's post near the top of the page many thousands were made. Unfortunately they failed often and were recalled by Chevrolet, with customers given a replacement 1924 or later engine depending upon when they happened to get the replacement.

Of course in those pre - internet days people often didn't get the message that a free engine was theirs for the asking. So a few of them did survive. I've seen a couple of the engines at swap meets, and there is one at Speedy Bill's museum in Nebraska. There is one at the Henry Ford, one at the former Harrah collection in Reno.

This fiasco hurt Chevrolet badly, but they recovered fast, finally surpassing 1923 production in 1926, and eclipsing Ford in a triumphant 1927. Unfortunately their coachwork was still garbage, so the cars do not exist today for the most part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 09:30 am:

I want to thank all of you who have posted pictures of the Chevrolets. You can't really appreciate a Model T without getting a glimpse of the competition and these are all pictures I wouldn't have seen otherwise.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 09:34 am:

Chevy also shared a 4 cyl truck engine with Olds that had a head with 3 exhaust ports.I don't know if the block was the same or not?Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 10:04 am:

Here are some pics of a 1914 Chevy Touring Car which shared dusty garage space with my little green pickup for 50 years or so.

14

14-2

14-3

14-4

Its new owner cleaned it up and freshened it a bit but didn't restore it. The engine was stuck and he freed it, and got it together mechanically. Here it is at the Petit jean swap meet/show this past June. I find it interesting that the car had electrical equipment in '14.

14-5


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 10:10 am:

Ford was one of the few car companies that didn't offer starter and generator in 1914. So you can say that the majority of car manufacturers made starting and charging equipment standard by 1914. Ford didn't even offer it until 1919.

You can also state that the majority of cars built in 1914 did not have starter or generators - because the majority of cars built every year from 1908 until 1927 were Ford Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 10:10 am:

Here are some pics of a 1914 Chevy Touring Car which shared dusty garage space with my little green pickup for 50 years or so.

14

14-2

14-3

14-4

Its new owner cleaned it up and freshened it a bit but didn't restore it. The engine was stuck and he freed it, and got it together mechanically. Here it is at the Petit jean swap meet/show this past June. I find it interesting that the car had electrical equipment in '14.

14-5


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 10:17 am:

I apologize for the double post. My computer was acting up and it didn't seem to have posted the first time. BTW, the owner told me the starter and electric light package was an option in '14. I guess this was a "deluxe" low-priced car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 10:18 am:

My Grandpa was a Chevrolet dealer in the twenties and early thirties but was forced into bankruptcy during the depression when people just brought cars back and left them because they couldn't pay for them. I remember as a kid that he had three of the copper finned engines and several others lined up along the side of the garage, he had a V8 that he put in a homemade roadster for my aunt.When they moved all the engines disappeared, as i got old enough to care it was too late, i never did find out what happened to them.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 11:14 am:

There are quite a few interesting early cars out there but they scare me. For example, next Thursday, August 1st, Auctions America will auction off a 1912 Buick Model 35 Touring (lot # 160) in a lovely condition featuring its original leather interior.

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/all-lots.cfm?order=runorder&noreserve=&Day =&category=&year=160&make=&model=Model&SaleCode=BB13

The estimate for this fantastic car is $12K - $16K which I find extremely low. But what if something breaks? If your cone clutch needs no leather covering, the engine has to come out and there's only one person in the country they trust to renew it. All these things add up and prevent those of us who have to work for a living looking in the direction of more eclectic cars. With a Model T and A, you know that there's nothing that can prevent you from driving again if something breaks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 11:44 am:

I am working on a 24 Chev for a fella. I think he wants around 20K for this car. It is pretty nice. A 1924 T this nice would probably be a bit cheaper, I would guess.

5


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 03:13 pm:

A 1924 Chevy Touring can't compete with a 1924 Model T Touring or vice versa. The competition for that '24 Chevy is a '28 or '29 Model A Phaeton, and such a car is not cheaper given the same condition.

That's the whole thing: there is no car that competes with a Model T of the black period. For that very reason a Model T needs to be black as a chimney, look scruffy, with worn paint and old interior, whereas a Model A needs to be pretty, colorful, with 3 different paint colors and a sparkling radiator shell.

Model T and Model A are two different animals with different souls and charisma. I like both for different reasons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 09:31 am:

Well, the guy with the 1915 (supposedly) Chevrolet 490 Touring on eBay right now is not interested in telling what the date code on the engine block is. It is definitely not newer than a 1916 though. Would be a great find if it is a true 1915 model.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 12:06 pm:

After reading the above discussions I noticed that there is a 1916 Chevrolet 490 Touring for sale in both the latest HCCA and ACCA magazines for $4,900. Looks to be complete and authentic except needs upholstery and top. I would think a T of the same description would go for 50% more.
I have no connection with this car and it is not the same car as the '15 on ebay. Just thought is was low for an asking price.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 12:15 pm:

If those early Chevy parts are so hard to find why am I fixing to haul 2 blocks, a 1932 six cly and some other stuff to scrap? I have put them on AACA and VCCA and no one wants them. BYE BYE BOWTIES :-) Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 01:04 pm:

Hey Dan, hold up! I haven't seen these advertised, and those items are among my addictions!

I'm in Collierville, TN (Memphis); where are you?

How much do you want?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:17 pm:

Thanks for all your input!

Well, I decided to get this car:


The wood in the body is in bad shape as well as the wheels. Basically everything is there minus a splash guard, and fender.

How do I figure out the car/engine number. All I found thus far is a casting number on top of the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:21 pm:

Wow. That is truly wonderful. Have fun with it.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:38 pm:

Good for you, Matthew. I'm glad to know I'm not the only Model T addict who also enjoys Chevrolets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:43 pm:

Great! I can see a Speedster in there.

T wheels will fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:48 pm:

Matthew -

Here is the twin sister to your car:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/3923009920.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/3923004704.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 04:24 pm:

Looks like a great project if the price was right. Like any Chevrolet the biggest challenge will be the wood in the body. No one is going to have patterns. You might consider having Ray Wells re - wood the body. He is in So Cal and is fairly reasonable and punctual.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 04:27 pm:

Matthew,

Post the casting number on top of the cylinder head and I can tell you the date. Also, post the casting number on the left side of the block.

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 06:07 pm:

Thanks for all the encouragement! At this point I want to see about getting the engine running.

Willis here is the casting numbers:

I believe it reads:
407-4
101416


and this reads:
1020
P 3?

Did they stamp numbers like on the Model T? Or just casting numbers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 07:23 pm:

[The competition for a 24 chevy touring is a 28 or 29 model A Ford] Did you get all your shots when you were little? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 08:06 pm:

Matthew,

The date for the cylinder head is October 14, 1916 (101416 = 10-14-16). The 407 is the part number. The 4, I believe, is where the head was cast but I can't remember where that was.
The date for the engine block is October 20, 19?? (I would have to assume the blurred numbers are 16 also.
Is there a plate on the firewall with a number stamped? Does the driver's door open or is it a 3 door touring? It looks like an early '17 Model 490. Build date would be about mid December 1916.
Hope this was of help,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 08:52 pm:

Thanks Willis! This is a three door touring. I have not seen the number plate. Is only serial number?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 12:48 pm:

I asked Mr.Google for some help and found that the flywheel and under where the exhaust manifold bolts the serial number is stamped. I looked on the flywheel and got the following number: H66843

Willis does that line up with what you expect?

What is the cut off date for Chevy's to be the next model year?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:17 pm:

Well the best answer to my original question is 1915 490 Chevrolet sold for $7210 on ebay in Dayton, Ohio! (see: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1915-CHEVROLET-490-TOURING-/200946081646?pt=US_Ca rs_Trucks&hash=item2ec951df6e#v4-39)

Would a 1915 Model T in the same condition go for a bit more?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:33 pm:

Here's the answer to your question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1915-Ford-Model-T-restored-in-the-80S-/1510898112 57?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 01:28 am:

Matthew,

The winner of the 490 auction got a good deal for sure, but the seller would not answer my questions about the engine dates. I believe the car is a 1916 model. Still a great price just the same.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 09:23 am:

The Model T auction Bernard posted the link for is actually about a 1919 - 20 touring. Someone has installed a 1915 - 16 radiator, hood, and hood former along with 1915 - 16 front fenders.
It is NOT a 1915 Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 11:52 am:

I have a 1912 Buick Model 35 (that was the entry level Buick in 1912, analogous to a 3-series BMW) and a 1913 Ford runabout. They're not in the same league. The Buick cruises comfortably a bit faster and infinitely smoother. The Buick weighs half again as much as the T and has three speeds. Boy, does it need that middle gear! The engine, being OHV, is more efficient than a T. Both cars have a 3-3/4" bore. The Ford stroke is 4", but the Buick is only 3-3/4"! I drove the Buick on three days of the Brass in Berks County tour, the whole New England Brass and Gas, and three days of the NJ/Ontario tour in Canada last week. I've put almost 1,200 miles on it in 9 months, and am getting to like it a lot. But it's a bear to shift!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 02:20 pm:

Gil,

We used to have a 1913 Buick Model 25 (I believe it is essentially the same car as a 12 Mod 35). It had a 22.5 hp, overhead valve engine, and as you said was much heavier than our 13 T.

When going to a car show, I would take the Buick, because the upholstery, colors, and finish were much nicer than the T. However, when going for a drive or tour, we almost always took the T. The Ford drove easier, was easier to maintain (no separate gearbox, etc to check) easier to shift, and turned and drove much better (in my opinion).

I felt after owning the two, that for several hundred dollars less, I could see why Ford ran away with sales. Again, both were great cars, but we still have our 13 T, the Buick now lives elsewhere :-).

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, August 02, 2013 - 07:10 pm:



I thought this photo would be of some interest to the readers of this thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, August 02, 2013 - 08:27 pm:

Herb,

Cool photo thanks for posting. Those are the brand new Superior models that just came out for 1923. How exciting it would have been to go around to the different dealers and see what each had to offer in the early days of motoring!

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rex Pyles on Friday, August 02, 2013 - 10:01 pm:

Ahhhhh, one of the OLDEST Chevy dealers in the country, Glockner's show room in 1923, they have a 1916 490 sitting in there showrrom today that their father bought in the 20's and had it restored.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rex Pyles on Friday, August 02, 2013 - 10:03 pm:

sorry, they just had the 490 restored recently


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 01:21 am:

This 1919 didn't make reserve at $6,800
See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1919-CHEVROLET-TOURING-CAR-CLASSIC-VINTAGE-CHEVY- /221265596959?_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 08:17 am:

I would have thought the car to bring a little more but the buying public decided.Some would say this car is more advanced than a Ford because of the over head valves but the engine is NOT ENCLOSED and easly exposed to dirt!! THe Ford engine inclosed in 1911 should last much longer!!Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 09:59 am:

Popularity and desirability seem to belong to Model T's in the old car (antique) hobby.
Does a website as extensive as this one exist for old Chevrolets in the same era as T's?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 03:47 pm:

As valuable, desirable, and actually active as the horseless carriage crowd is, they cannot seem to get a web site to be one-tenth as active as this one is. And that would be if you added up several of them all together. I have tried to help them a bit by responding to other people's posts and thanking them for their input. Even Phil Jaimison (sp?) seems to post here more than he does on the HCCA site and he is the moderator there. Thank you Phil! You have done better than I did.
Model T people are a special breed of people. A very special breed of people.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 02:41 am:

Kenneth,
Yeah I don't know why Chevrolet didn't put a sheet metal box around their valves for so long. I think for the era they just expected to work on the valves a lot and saw it as easier to leave things exposed. I think I would be more concerned with water coming down the rods when stored for any time period.

John & Wayne,
I have heard that this forum is better than anything that can be found for Model A's... My point is that maybe beyond the fact that the Model T is a nice car- the people that drive T's like to help each other online more than others do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 04:03 am:

In this thread I dare to reveal that I am also fond of the tophead Chevy's.
Back in my young days I was "project manager" in getting this beauty back on the streets from an abandoned project:

The color is a Citroen 2CV color from the late 70's - yeah, I was just around 20 at the time and the owner is an auto painter and pretty good at colors. The fenders and splash aprons was dark green (British racing green as I recall it - a BLMC color).
Here you have a very young me sitting in the car as it looked when I stepped in:


The car still exists, and I have helped the current owner a couple of years back to get it back on the steets (ready for inpsection etc.) and it was quite fun to see my old solutions was still working on the car. The fenders have since been painted black, which I think is not as good as when they where dark green.
It was at our weekly tire kicking in a parkinglot in the local habour:

I've told him, that if he gets bored with it, I will gladly offer it a new home :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 04:12 am:

OK - I also have a 0,02$ for the original question:
It is much much harder to restaore an old Chevy or Dodge Brothers than a Model T (A or V8) as you can get virtually any part that gets weared out.
I had never heard of anyone producing new parts for Chevrolet (I'm not in the US) until I visited Chickasha in 2010:

I think they are the only one - at least in this volume.
Of course if you have to fabricate or restore every piece you need in a restauration - the initial price for the barnfind may be lower Just because cars are rare does not gives good prices when restored. If they are not attracted by the buyers, you won't get the money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 08:34 am:

Early Chevrolet parts. I believe I used them for a few parts when I had a 23 Chebby.


http://www.20schevyparts.com/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 09:17 am:

Quite a few early cars have had an exposed upper valve train. Both Buick and International come to mind in addition to Chevrolet. I believe the Franklin also produced an exposed valve train engine and very reliable too.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 10:14 am:

If you get a chance, watch the video on Jay Leno's website on his Franklin with exposed valvetrain. He says that the owner's manual instructed the owner to lubricate the valvetrain "at noon" every day!


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