OT - The two Henry s', Ford and Leland

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: OT - The two Henry s', Ford and Leland
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 07:39 pm:

Continuing from a couple of other threads, below are two video links. One shows Henry Leland discussing the auto industry and driving (pulled in) a 1906 Cadillac. Someone on the forum sent me the link some time ago (although I don't recall who :-().

Henry Leland talks about he early innovators of the automobile, however noticeably leaves out Henry Ford (who is rightfully one of the early founders of the industry). The video was shot about 1930 according the the description. That would put Henry Leland in his late eighties at the time of the taping. This video is from the University of South Carolina archives:



http://dvr-streaming.mirc.sc.edu/MVTN_8-902_Acc1.mp4

This second video covers the early history of Lincoln, including photos of Henry Leland, Henry Ford and Edsel Ford. It also includes photos of early Lincoln's (of course my favorite is the K series :-)).

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VVvQicM7SRs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVVvQicM7SRs


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 07:55 pm:

Rob
Thanks for the Film. I truly liked the Tow rope from the camera car. I'd still take it.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 07:57 pm:

Maybe Henry Leland was still mad at Henry Ford and Edsal for the purchase of Lincoln Motors from Leland.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:21 pm:

Thomas,

Hard to say. I'm sure there were many different feelings between the two pioneers (and competitors) of the industry. In 1903/04, the "good money" would probably have been placed with Henry Leland. Cadillac was an industry leader, destined for greatness. Meanwhile, Ford Motor Company was an upstart, with little financing, and a "three time loser" as it's engineering leader.

However, by 1921, Henry Ford was on his way to becoming the wealthiest man in the world, and Lincoln (and Henry Leland) on the way to bankruptcy. In the years between, both men had their ups and downs, with Henry Ford's legacy growing while the other Henry was becoming an obscure figure in the industry.

In some ways, to a lesser extent, Alexander Malcomson and Henry Leland's legacy were similar. By his death, Malcomson was an unknown in the industry, and actually requested additional money from Henry Ford just prior to his death in the early 20's. Meanwhile, A. Malcomson's financial support allowed HF the opportunity to finally realize success, at an unparalleled level in the auto industry.

Hard to say how these pioneers really felt about each other, and their place in history.

All incredibly interesting. Meanwhile, we are fortunate enough to drive and work on their wonderful inventions,

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 09:45 am:

Not sure about Cadillac being an industry leader in 1903, since they made their first automobile, the Model A, starting in March of 1903. Ford sold his Model A only a few months after that. Henry Leland was acknowledged as a fine machinist.

cadillac


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 10:07 am:

The Ford,The Cadillac,Wern't both just [Assembled Car's] and very much the same??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 04:19 pm:

Henry Ford was the chief engineer responsible for the design of the car that became Cadillac. He did not want to begin production and sales because he was working on more improvements. The bankers and investors became unhappy with him because they believed the car was ready.
When the investors forced Henry Ford out of the company that carried his name, they had to buy him out, got the cars, parts, drawings, and all facilities. Henry Ford got to keep his name. They then hired Henry Leland to finish designs and set up for production.
Henry Ford then got new investors. As fast as this all happened, my guess would be that he already had them lined up, but I have never read that, so I am just speculating.
Henry Ford finished his next round of improvements to the car he had already designed, and got it into production and on the market only a few months after the renamed Cadillac.
The reason the '03 Cadillac and '03 Ford look so much alike is because they started out as the same car designed by the same man. However the Ford had more improvements.

Legend has it that Henry Ford hated Henry Leland for stepping in and saving the earlier company. It is said that Henry bought out Lincoln in part to rub Henry Leland's nose "in it". Whether that is true or not may never be known.

Cadillac, under the direction of Henry Leland was an industry leader for many years, even winning the automobile industries highest engineering award twice. The first time (about'06 or '07) for machining standards that allowed true interchangeability of all parts. This as opposed to the then usual methods of hand fitting most parts into each car individually.
The second time the award was for the introduction of the first reliable self-starter and electrical system incorporated into a production gasoline engine car. This truly made the gasoline automobile superior to both electric and steam powered automobiles and opened up their use to almost anyone.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:06 pm:

So im thinking Henry Ford was involved with the Dodge Brothers long before the 1903 Ford Motor Company as we know it? With what model/year did Ford actually produce his owne engine and running gear?Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:06 pm:

Wikipedia numbers for automobile production. While they may not be correct, it's the best (and easiest) source I've found for multiple years. It appears Cadillac did well from the start, although Ford quickly overtook them.

Both Ford and Cadillac used bodies by Wilson and so appear similar. However, the two cars are quite different in that Cadillac used a one cylinder engine whereas Ford began production with a two cylinder opposed cylinder engine. The two cars are mechanically very different.

From Wikipedia:


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