Alright this one is throwing me for a loop maybe you guys can come up with an answer When I bought my car the engine head and block had been milled now I put a steel head gasket on that I got from Lang's and it leaked and over heated the car So I put a copper head gasket on and the thing still leaks and over heats this is why the car won't drive across my yard and the head bolts are torqued to 50ft lbs and the gasket is on the correct way does anyone Know how to stop the water from leaking out and why the car is over heating any help is appreciated
The bolts are probably bottoming out. I fixed that by using studs. I run the studs into the block just to where they bottom out, then put the torque on the nut at the top of the stud. It avoids stripping the threads in the block.
In some cars, you have to put the head in place first, then run each stud down snug with a nut and jam nut the way you would with a bolt.
The Model A uses studs. They have two long ones by the water outlet. I use those for the Frontenac head. Their short ones may fit a T.
It is possible your head bolts are bottoming out in the holes and are coming up to torque before they properly clamp the head to the block. This is very likely if both the deck and head have been milled. Run a tap down the head bolt holes to clean them. Then put the head on without the gasket and make sure the bolts run all the way down to the head. If not, you must shorten them, easily done on a bench grinder, or use washers under the bolts. This will leave the thickness of the gasket as a safety margin. Remember to retorque the bolts several times until they hold 50 pounds.
Then how come the new gasket is is letting moisture in the 4th cylinder and the bolts are not bottoming out
Are you putting any kind of goop on the gasket, or are you putting it in dry? If the latter, that's your problem. There are several brands of sealers. I like copper coat. I lay the gasket bottom side up on a piece of paper, slather the Copper Coat on it, put it on the head, then apply the sealant to the top side. Some people prefer a spray-on sealer so they can hang the gasket on a wire and spray both sides.
When you run a tap in the holes, it should be a bottoming tap, like the bottom one in the picture. The top one is a regular tap that you get in a tap & die set. It's tapered and won't clean out the threads all the way to the bottom of the hole.
You wrote...:"the bolts are not bottoming out"
I don't know how to (do) know that....how do you know that to be true?
Place the head on the block without the head gasket and run the bolts down. If the bolts don't clamp the head tight, then the holes have junk in them. Personally, I've NEVER seen a used block that didn't need the holes cleaned out.
Run a 3/8 drill bit, on slow speed, into the bottom of the hole and "peck" to bring up the rust, dirt and debris. You can tell when it hits bottom. If you bring up metal chips, you went too far. Follow that with an air blast to remove the loose debris. (Wear eye protection.) THEN run the bottoming tap into the hole.
Also - After you run the tap in and back out, give the hole another blast of air.
Thanks Guys What is the best type of head gasket my grandpa says copper but my uncle says silicon What do you think since I have to replace it
I use a shop vac. to suck out the tapped holes , so the dirt don't go where it is not wanted.
You may want to check for small cracks on the blocks surface, and down in the bottom of the holes, and some engines the hole went into the water jacket. and even if there were none before, stressing the head again, it can cause a new one, or cause an old one to now leak.
If you don't want gaskets to leak, use Indian Head gasket cement. It has been used for a 100 years, and I have used nothing else on gaskets.
What do you recommend for a head gasket copper , steel or silicon
I like copper myself.
I think I found the problem the head does not entirely line up with the block I bolted the head on without a gasket and there is about a 1/32 inch of block sticking out by the water inlet it runs the length of the block I am going to try my other heads tomorrow
Hey guys what's the best stuff to clean out the water jacket because there is all sorts of gunk in it.
You can use a commercial cooling system flush from the auto part store. Let it sit in the radiator / block overnight, then flush in the morning. Then refill with a mix of good ethylene glycol / water to prevent it from becoming cruddy with rust again.
Or you can use a gallon of vinegar, followed by enough water to fill the system. Same routine, let it sit overnight, flush, fill with good coolant.
Steve, thanks for posting the picture of the bottoming tap; I will see if I can find one today and surprise Bailey when he gets home from Knoxville.
What should I ask for when I call the parts store?
Thanks again for posting, Steve.
7/16-14 bottoming tap. You can make one yourself from a regular tapered tap by grinding off the taper IF there's enough tap above the taper to reach the bottom of the hole. Keep some ice handy when grinding. Grind a little then press the tap against the ice, then grind a little more. You want to keep the tap cool so heat doesn't soften it.
The tap pictured by Steve is for tapping new threads. You can purchase a "bottoming tap" which cuts threads all the way to the bottom of the hole. The bottoming tap is best for cleaning up the holes, then blow out with compressed air and use a little oil on the bolts.
If the bolts are too long, you can grind off a little from the ends to make them fit. Try the head on without the gasket and tighten the bolts. The heads should go all the way to the head. If not, either the holes are dirty or the bolts are too long
If you use studs, as Ricks suggests, you will have trouble pulling the head without sliding the engine forward. The two studs in back will keep you from raising the head up past the end of the studs. I know this is a problem with the 26-27. I don't know if studs would be the same problem with your year. Your profile says 26.
If the above doesn't correct your problem, it is possible that you have one or more cracks in the block or in the head. Sometimes cracks are concealed such as inside the bolt holes, or between the cylinder and the valve, or under the edge of the water jacket either inside the valve compartment of on the side by the water inlet.
I looked again at Steve's picture and notice that the lower picture is of a bottoming tap. You will notice the threads go to the end of it. That is the type you need to clean out your threads.
It's not so tough as that, Norm; just put jam nuts (they're thin) on those two studs before they're installed, and treat them as bolts until they are in place. Take off the jam nuts and torque a regular nut down.
Same with removing them: tighten a pair of jam nuts on, and wrench the stud loose or out.
I found the problem several families of mice had been living in the water jacket so when I flushed it about 8 dead mice came out that's probably why the car would act up thanks for the help
The mice and their nests may have caused your overheating, but they didn't cause the leaking head. Did you solve that?
Since you stated that the block has been decked and the head resurfaced I would be suspect of the quality of the job. At the very least, take the head to an automotive machine shop and have them check it for flatness.
Of course, the "long bolt/short hole" theory above should be your first inspection point.
And to think I was thinking about using bolts on a Model A head because the studs make it hard to pull the head because of rust and such that forms in the holes around the studs. Spend 4 to 6 hours pulling a Model A head, you will be glad you have bolts.
I pulled the Fronty head and all the studs last month. They're all the long ones, and they came right out after about ten years. How could they get rusty?
I am currently working on a 17 with the wood firewall. Although the bolts could be reached with a wrench much easier than the bolts on a 26. The opening in the firewall is still not high enough to pull the head up far enough to remove if studs were to be used. The principal advantage of studs is the slope of the threads at the top. It it will pull down much more accurately with the fine thread than with the course thread of the original type bolts. But with clean and oiled threads and the right length bolts it is easy to torque the head. I would suspect that if the trouble is not in the length of the bolts or cleanlyness of the threads, your problem is elsewhere, either a warped surface, or cracks.
Torque specs are for clean, dry threads; not oiled. You will overtorque the bolts if oiled, and they will back out easier - because they are oiled.
You would be surprised how much crud and rust can get and form in the holes around the studs.
You've gotten a lot of good advice to sift through, but I'd add one more thing to the list (please forgive me if it's been stated previously and I missed it):
What is the surface finish (quality of the finish) where the block and head have been milled? If it's too rough, the gasket won't "take".
Sorry, but it's Ralph Ricks and he's right.
Ted, quite being a Dumas!
I would check the re-machined head surface. I once had a head re-surfaced and the cutting tool was not up to scratch. It cut either side of the combustion chambers well but when making the full width cut between the chambers, it rode higher and I ended up with a head with corrugations!
Hope this helps.
For all who want to know, Goodson offers a thread chasing tap in their catalog. This tap does not damage the threads when chasing.
I solved the leak too I put copper coat on the gasket and it works like a champ as for who did the machine work that credit goes to Ed Stien who did a fantastic job
Spencer, is Ed still working? I mailed him an envelope with pictures about six weeks ago, asking him to call about an '18 engine. I've not heard back from him.
He built the engine in my '14 back in 1989 and did a splendid job. Let me know if you think he's still working.
Hey Bill he is still working you should probably call him because he sometimes forgets
Hey fellas I found a new problem some how water is getting into my crankcase George king said pull the head and change the gasket again What do you think let me know